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LakerEagleLover
03-08-2011, 06:26 PM
This is typical of what goes on those bad boys at CSC are the ones that caused us to take these penalties....so Morrisville 16/72 min vs CSC 12/35, Johnson and Wales 16/59 vs 8/16 ???
You can lay blame all you want but take responsibility for what your teams do and quit blaming CSC...CSC 14 of the 27 games took 7 or less penalties....keep looking for that boogy man but the young men at CSC are good guys and for you to insist that they have responsibilty for what the other teams do against them is nuts Another reason to hate the 80's.....:rolleyes:

sticksnstones
03-08-2011, 06:47 PM
This is typical of what goes on those bad boys at CSC are the ones that caused us to take these penalties....so Morrisville 16/72 min vs CSC 12/35, Johnson and Wales 16/59 vs 8/16 ???
You can lay blame all you want but take responsibility for what your teams do and quit blaming CSC...CSC 14 of the 27 games took 7 or less penalties....keep looking for that boogy man but the young men at CSC are good guys and for you to insist that they have responsibilty for what the other teams do against them is nuts

Dude, they take a lot of penalties. The proof is in the numbers. Taking away this game and that game doesn't work. "If Plattsburgh takes away two losses to Oswego they would be 22-5-1." Yeah, you can't do that. It is what it is. They somehow managed to be quite successful even though they take a lot of penalties. This has nothing to do with how good they are as people.

one_to7
03-08-2011, 07:04 PM
Remy I'm not whining about the committee going by the numbers. I want to know why Elmira was still two last week and then all of a sudden this week they are 3. That's what I don't get. Especially when it cost the east a home game.

Dan, if the committee could go back and change the rankings why wouldn't they have done so so that Elmira would have hosted?
The committee needs a reason to change the rankings. They can't just go "well that's inconvenient to what we're trying to do, can we switch that up?"

1985
03-08-2011, 07:37 PM
Dude, they take a lot of penalties. The proof is in the numbers. Taking away this game and that game doesn't work. "If Plattsburgh takes away two losses to Oswego they would be 22-5-1." Yeah, you can't do that. It is what it is. They somehow managed to be quite successful even though they take a lot of penalties. This has nothing to do with how good they are as people.

To characterize them as having a pattern of almost 20 min in penalties for 27 games is wrong...a pattern is a practice or someting that is done more often than not, so to have 16 games of less pen/min than opposition and 11 games of equal or more does not a pattern show. Yup they take too many penalties for me too but not the worst team by statistic in the country by a long shot....to use the defense"he hit me first" to support why other teams take penalties when playing CSC is just a way to justify someones theory. so just trying to be fair, to compair losses to penalty minutes is not a fair analogy...if a team had 40% of their penalty minutes in 6 games I feel to be fair that needs to be included...we can agree to disagree..majority of games apprx 15 min in penalties and yes that is too much also, did the bullys make the other teams take more penalties than normal ? don't think so, may be just a more intense rivalry but pattern no way

puxrex
03-08-2011, 07:59 PM
If Saturday doesn't come soon, the whining here will become deafening. On CSC men's hockey, I don't know whether the players are good guys or not. They most likely are. I do believe that they are playing the game the way their coach wants them to play. If the coach did not want them averaging almost a full period worth of penalties a game, he'd make sure that didn't see the ice very much. Look at the bottom (least penalized) teams in the penalty minute standings, Plattsburgh and Norwich. These players are not choirboys who don't want to hit anyone. They are playing the game the way their coaches want them to play.

Obviously, overriding all of this is my concern for player safety. Hits to the head have no place in hockey at any level. CSC has used athletics as a way to build their enrollment. This is a growth strategy that seems to be working. David Wolk should keep in mind, however, that on-ice behavior that may win a hockey game can also result in serious brain injuries to opposing (or his own) athletes. Hockey is a rough game but the kind of play that results in blatant hits to the head is not in his college's best interest or part of anyone's growth plan. We all worry about the player's safety. D3 hockey is not about making it to the NHL. It's about playing the game you love for your school, and your teammates. Play hard. Play to win. But don't play to end someone's playing career or worse.

1985
03-08-2011, 08:52 PM
If Saturday doesn't come soon, the whining here will become deafening. On CSC men's hockey, I don't know whether the players are good guys or not. They most likely are. I do believe that they are playing the game the way their coach wants them to play. If the coach did not want them averaging almost a full period worth of penalties a game, he'd make sure that didn't see the ice very much. Look at the bottom (least penalized) teams in the penalty minute standings, Plattsburgh and Norwich. These players are not choirboys who don't want to hit anyone. They are playing the game the way their coaches want them to play.

Obviously, overriding all of this is my concern for player safety. Hits to the head have no place in hockey at any level. CSC has used athletics as a way to build their enrollment. This is a growth strategy that seems to be working. David Wolk should keep in mind, however, that on-ice behavior that may win a hockey game can also result in serious brain injuries to opposing (or his own) athletes. Hockey is a rough game but the kind of play that results in blatant hits to the head is not in his college's best interest or part of anyone's growth plan. We all worry about the player's safety. D3 hockey is not about making it to the NHL. It's about playing the game you love for your school, and your teammates. Play hard. Play to win. But don't play to end someone's playing career or worse.

Again you make it sound like they have this contact to the head penalty on a game by game basis, when in fact they were called for that 3 times in 27 games and had called on teams they played 2 times....those kids don't go out there to "end someones playing careers" or with the intent of a "blatant "hit.....yes should it be zero hits to the head yes. as for CSC's I would say the one at Middlebury was blatant and the young man was benched the next game

NU 10
03-08-2011, 08:59 PM
I have listen to this whine about CSC for 2 days now.YES THEY AVEAGE 20 MINUTES IN PENALTYS PER GAME.but look back to Union 2000-2001 stat year,The senior year for Alex Todd under Coach Kevin Shetton of UVM, Average penalty minutes 18.6. Teach what you are taught.:p:p:p

NU 10
03-08-2011, 09:09 PM
My Mistake Coach Kevin Sneddon:o:o

1985
03-08-2011, 09:11 PM
I have listen to this whine about CSC for 2 days now.YES THEY AVEAGE 20 MINUTES IN PENALTYS PER GAME.but look back to Union 2000-2001 stat year,The senior year for Alex Todd under Coach Kevin Shetton of UVM, Average penalty minutes 18.6. Teach what you are taught.:p:p:p

No one is whinning here I am just tired of the Characterization of CSC hockey team as thugs and guys that want to end careers etc..noone on here wants to take the stats into perspective and just blanket it as 20 min per game and hits to the head ...... well if a team plays 10 games, wins 4 of the 10-0 each game and loses the other 6 games 1-0 you could say the averaged 4goals a game but that does not tell the whole story....so 40% of CSC penalty minutes in 6 games needs to be put in the proper perspective as did the 3 contact to the head penalties

SNC SID
03-08-2011, 09:13 PM
Remy I'm not whining about the committee going by the numbers. I want to know why Elmira was still two last week and then all of a sudden this week they are 3. That's what I don't get. Especially when it cost the east a home game.

Dan, if the committee could go back and change the rankings why wouldn't they have done so so that Elmira would have hosted?

With a committee of 2 east and 2 west, it's probably hard to switch the rankings, but not impossible. In other sports, you have eight regions represented by one. Much easier to override that way. My other question would be to wonder what the ECAC West rep on the East call though of Elmira falling a spot?

Blueliner03
03-08-2011, 09:17 PM
Did I read a post in one of either this thread or the speculation thread regarding SOS < .500 being dropped from the field per the NCAA handbook (as the case with Castleton)? Or, was that one of the Bracketologists' own rules?

If a NCAA rule, obviously this would not apply to an AQ team like Adrian, Curry, Bowdoin.

(Based on the 3-1-11 rankings)

CSC Dad
03-08-2011, 09:20 PM
I would...Iwould like to hear what this perception is, I have friends that coach teams and I know a lot of the players in many leagues and I have only heard negative from the Middlebury throng...do the boys get a little carried away ?? sometimes but I think they were better this year...just over an ave of 19 penalty minutes....is that too much heck yea almost a period a game...but USM is at 15.5 ave...CSC is like 12th or 14th in pen minutes but only 4 min diff between 12 to 40th

Here are the stats for the Alex Todd's first 4 years at Castleton - which coincides when my son played for them. Notice that Castleton had the most penalties once in those 4 years. However, USM lead two years and had more than Castleton a third years.


What is the NESCAC biggest complaints about the ECAC-EAST???? You will find your answers in there...The Bench penalties @ 20:00 minutes don't help either... Looks like USM had a hand in the perception as well, so maybe you need to come to grips with reality about things in your own back yard before making a big issue. I saw a Norwich player rip the helmet off a Castleton player in the last game, but Castleton is the bad team because you say so. Look below the 4 years of ECAC-East stats for an interesting tidbit. Their PIM were accomplished in 15 games that year (4 leass that CSC played). This year they were at 19.4 minutes. That team gets to play the "elite" teams now because they win and it helps the opposing teams SOS and that is what makes the difference this time of years.

ECAC East 2005-2006
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
1 Castleton State 19 476 25.1
2 Southern Maine 19 411 21.6
3 New England 19 388 20.4
4 UMass Boston 19 369 19.4
5 Saint Michael's 19 355 18.7
6 Saint Anselm 19 346 18.2
7 Salem State 19 334 17.6
8 Norwich 19 304 16.0
9 Skidmore 19 263 13.8
10 Babson 19 259 13.6

ECAC East 2006-2007
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
1 Southern Maine 19 453 23.8
2 Castleton 19 452 23.8
3 New England 19 406 21.4
Salem State 19 406 21.4
5 Saint Anselm 19 393 20.7
6 Saint Michael's 19 339 17.8
7 UMass Boston 19 338 17.8
8 Babson 19 320 16.8
9 Skidmore 19 277 14.6
10 Norwich 19 248 13.1


ECAC East 2007-2008
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
1 Southern Maine 19 451 23.7
2 Saint Michael's 19 412 21.7
3 Salem State 19 369 19.4
4 Castleton 19 317 16.7
5 New England 19 297 15.6
6 UMass Boston 19 296 15.6
7 Saint Anselm 19 294 15.5
8 Norwich 19 272 14.3
9 Skidmore 19 239 12.6
10 Babson 19 238 12.5

ECAC East 2007-2008
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
1 Salem State 19 416 21.9
2 Southern Maine 19 337 17.7
3 Saint Anselm 19 313 16.5
4 Saint Michael's 19 309 16.3
5 New England 19 305 16.1
6 Castleton 19 302 15.9
7 Babson 19 300 15.8
8 Norwich 19 243 12.8
9 Skidmore 19 220 11.6
10 UMass Boston 19 210 11.1

Bonus PIM:
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
1 Neumann 15 522 34.8
2 Manhattanville 15 465 31.0
3 Lebanon Valley 15 420 28.0
4 Hobart 15 353 23.5
5 Elmira 15 282 18.8
6 Utica 15 237 15.8

1985
03-08-2011, 09:30 PM
Here are the stats for the Alex Todd's first 4 years at Castleton - which coincides when my son played for them. Notice that Castleton had the most penalties once in those 4 years. However, USM lead two years and had more than Castleton a third years.

Looks like USM had a hand in the perception as well, so maybe you need to come to grips with reality about things in your own back yard before making a big issue. I saw a Norwich player rip the helmet off a Castleton player in the last game, but Castleton is the bad team because you say so. Look below the 4 years of ECAC-East stats for an interesting tidbit. Their PIM were accomplished in 15 games that year (4 leass that CSC played). This year they were at 19.4 minutes. That team gets to play the "elite" teams now because they win and it helps the opposing teams SOS and that is what makes the difference this time of years.

ECAC East 2005-2006
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
1 Castleton State 19 476 25.1
2 Southern Maine 19 411 21.6
3 New England 19 388 20.4
4 UMass Boston 19 369 19.4
5 Saint Michael's 19 355 18.7
6 Saint Anselm 19 346 18.2
7 Salem State 19 334 17.6
8 Norwich 19 304 16.0
9 Skidmore 19 263 13.8
10 Babson 19 259 13.6

ECAC East 2006-2007
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
1 Southern Maine 19 453 23.8
2 Castleton 19 452 23.8
3 New England 19 406 21.4
Salem State 19 406 21.4
5 Saint Anselm 19 393 20.7
6 Saint Michael's 19 339 17.8
7 UMass Boston 19 338 17.8
8 Babson 19 320 16.8
9 Skidmore 19 277 14.6
10 Norwich 19 248 13.1


ECAC East 2007-2008
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
1 Southern Maine 19 451 23.7
2 Saint Michael's 19 412 21.7
3 Salem State 19 369 19.4
4 Castleton 19 317 16.7
5 New England 19 297 15.6
6 UMass Boston 19 296 15.6
7 Saint Anselm 19 294 15.5
8 Norwich 19 272 14.3
9 Skidmore 19 239 12.6
10 Babson 19 238 12.5

ECAC East 2007-2008
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
1 Salem State 19 416 21.9
2 Southern Maine 19 337 17.7
3 Saint Anselm 19 313 16.5
4 Saint Michael's 19 309 16.3
5 New England 19 305 16.1
6 Castleton 19 302 15.9
7 Babson 19 300 15.8
8 Norwich 19 243 12.8
9 Skidmore 19 220 11.6
10 UMass Boston 19 210 11.1

Bonus PIM:
Penalty Minutes: Games PIM PIM/G
1 Neumann 15 522 34.8
2 Manhattanville 15 465 31.0
3 Lebanon Valley 15 420 28.0
4 Hobart 15 353 23.5
5 Elmira 15 282 18.8
6 Utica 15 237 15.8

You will be told that it is CSC's fault that the Norwich player pulled his helmet off, CSC is responsible for the other teams penalties as they would not take them against other teams but it is because of the way CSC plays

The Real Georgia Peach
03-08-2011, 09:34 PM
WILL YOU JUST STOP!!! Castleton isn't in....Deal with it. They couldn't get into the finals in their own conference. Maye next year they can just win their conference and save all this bandwidth.

1985
03-08-2011, 09:43 PM
WILL YOU JUST STOP!!! Castleton isn't in....Deal with it. They couldn't get into the finals in their own conference. Maye next year they can just win their conference and save all this bandwidth.

has nothin to do with being "in" has to do with post earlier making accusations against this team, if you don't like it don't read it as 77 says all the time....go whine about having to pay a small fee to watch you team play

CSC Dad
03-08-2011, 09:46 PM
WILL YOU JUST STOP!!! Castleton isn't in....Deal with it. They couldn't get into the finals in their own conference. Maye next year they can just win their conference and save all this bandwidth.

Please, nothing was said about Castleton and the NCAA tournament - however this thread has become a bash Castleton thread lead by HockeyFan77 who continually bashes Castleton even when there is a huge stink pile in his own backyard.

I agree that all Castleton had to do was win the Conference, but to blame the collapse of the Interlock solely on Castleton as has been done leads to hijacking the thread to present the evidence. Norwich fans so it all the time - just read the Castleton threads.

LakerEagleLover
03-08-2011, 09:50 PM
Just Go Away...

PrezdeJohnson09
03-08-2011, 09:54 PM
With a committee of 2 east and 2 west, it's probably hard to switch the rankings, but not impossible. In other sports, you have eight regions represented by one. Much easier to override that way. My other question would be to wonder what the ECAC West rep on the East call though of Elmira falling a spot?

The regional advisory committees that have been appointed to assist in the
evaluation of teams throughout the season are:

Division III East
Bruce Delventhal, Plattsburgh State University of New York, chair
Michael McShane, Norwich University
Edward Gosek, State University of New York at Oswego
Lou Izzi, Nichols College
Keith Levinthal, Manhattanville College
Chris Potter, Wesleyan University (Connecticut)
William O’Neill, Salem State University
Jamie Rice, Babson College

Looks as though we'd have to ask Mr. Levinthal.

1985
03-08-2011, 09:59 PM
Just Go Away...


not hardly, we will continue to support and fight the 1/2 truths that are spewed about here as you all do for you teams

OSU2010
03-08-2011, 10:05 PM
Just Go Away...

+1,000,000