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1985
03-08-2011, 08:58 AM
Also don't get me wrong I agree a better schedule is needed, playing the interlock I don't think helped...I am new to this and just trying to get a feel of the way things go....Yea I wish CSC would have gotten in but its not the end of the world, do I have a problem with the Brackets? Not really, heck the ways things have been going it would appear to be a good field and let the games begin....I do appreciate the help from some of you as I will be the first to tell you I hate computers and navigation is not easy .

NUProf
03-08-2011, 09:04 AM
Just one comment - you sounded a trifle arrogant with your initial posting - "this can't be true" "they are hiding this from me", etc. The process is a long ways from transparent (especially the part about the "secret ratings"), but there is logic to it, and the committee was consistent with previous years. It surprised me a bit because I thought that CSC's winning percentage would be a big enough advantage to put them in. It's a good field. My sense is that CSC needed to have another game with NU to have a better shot. Even if they lost, their SOS would have looked stronger.

The Real Georgia Peach
03-08-2011, 09:05 AM
Well I was just trying to take pity on that poor dead horse that a couple of them have been continuing to beat unmercifully.

CROSBYNU63
03-08-2011, 09:06 AM
Seems like every year a team or two gets left out that should have been in. last year I thought Manhattanville should have been in and this year I thought Castleton should have gotten in, so be it.

1985
03-08-2011, 09:15 AM
Just one comment - you sounded a trifle arrogant with your initial posting - "this can't be true" "they are hiding this from me", etc. The process is a long ways from transparent (especially the part about the "secret ratings"), but there is logic to it, and the committee was consistent with previous years. It surprised me a bit because I thought that CSC's winning percentage would be a big enough advantage to put them in. It's a good field. My sense is that CSC needed to have another game with NU to have a better shot. Even if they lost, their SOS would have looked stronger.

My apologies, was never meant to be that but I did get my dander up a little with some of the replies, did not mean to imply anyone was hiding anything from me just was asking for direction as I was unable to find it. I also thought that CSC might have a high enough winning pct to get in but not the case, the boys had a good season after only winning 9 games the year before, hopefully Todd will get some better teams on the schedule.
Thanks again.

vcxc3200
03-08-2011, 09:22 AM
so, when am i getting my official uc tissue box you guys are promising me?

hockeyfan77
03-08-2011, 09:27 AM
Sounds like someone needs his diaper changed. Or did you just have one too many drinks tonight? If you work games for Southern Maine maybe should spend less time crying like a soiled newborn and spend more figuring out how to get your own dogpile out of the bottom half the league.

I am just telling the truth, no team wants to play them( nobody will say it but it''s the truth, why do you think the SOS sucked so bad)...I don't drink and I am sure your dogpile smells a whole lot worse than mine...You know what they say if you don't know anything than you should probably shut the mouth....But I guess ignorance is bliss in your case...

hockeyfan77
03-08-2011, 09:34 AM
This guy has been bashing CSC for 2 years now over what he says was someone throwing ice balls at him, the hockey team had nothing to do with that if it happened and there are plenty of teams that have no problem playing CSC so get over yourself its time to grow up.


I wasn't bashing the players, I actually feel kind of bad for them: I just find it ironic...Maybe it's time for CSC to look in the mirror and wonder why the couldn't get stronger OOC games...Helpful Criticism is also needed and so isn't an outside point of view...if you don't like it don't read it and keep your head in the sand...

NorthernLite
03-08-2011, 10:01 AM
Why is Hamline is on the road to Superior ?
Would the committee have ranked Superior ahead of them in the final secret ballot ?

lukem2000
03-08-2011, 10:05 AM
Why is Hamline is on the road to Superior ?
Would the committee have ranked Superior ahead of them in the final secret ballot ?

I believe it was an ice issue with Hamline.
I’m pretty sure I read that someplace on here.

PSUChamps2001
03-08-2011, 10:11 AM
I believe it was an ice issue with Hamline.
Iím pretty sure I read that someplace on here.

Correct, no ice...

XYZ
03-08-2011, 10:14 AM
Why is Hamline is on the road to Superior ?
Would the committee have ranked Superior ahead of them in the final secret ballot ?

http://www.d3westhockey.com/SelectionSundayExplained030711.html

one_to7
03-08-2011, 10:15 AM
Why is Hamline is on the road to Superior ?
Would the committee have ranked Superior ahead of them in the final secret ballot ?
edit: too slow...

1985
03-08-2011, 10:16 AM
I wasn't bashing the players, I actually feel kind of bad for them: I just find it ironic...Maybe it's time for CSC to look in the mirror and wonder why the couldn't get stronger OOC games...Helpful Criticism is also needed and so isn't an outside point of view...if you don't like it don't read it and keep your head in the sand...

They are a physical team get over it it's hockey! and when they take dumb penalties they pay for it being a man down, as for schedule do you think the teams that scheduled CSC ever thought they would go from winning 9 games to winning 22? Probably not just as when scheduling Brockport (14-12-1 prior year)Becker (13-12-2) Johnson and Wales 12-14, teams are always hoping to improve unfortunately the 3 Suny schools on the CSC schedule only won 21 games between them, Johnson and Wales over .500. Mind you the same SUNY schools that Oswego and Plattsburg play as well

NorthernLite
03-08-2011, 10:41 AM
http://www.d3westhockey.com/SelectionSundayExplained030711.html

Shame on me for missing this gem. :o

LakerFan99
03-08-2011, 10:54 AM
Well, at least no one is complaining that Oswego got in...:)

Wait just a darn minute! Utica ONLY lost to Oswego TWICE this year. That means Utica definitely should have gotten in over Oswego!

Travesty!! :D

hockeyfan77
03-08-2011, 10:55 AM
They are a physical team get over it it's hockey! and when they take dumb penalties they pay for it being a man down, as for schedule do you think the teams that scheduled CSC ever thought they would go from winning 9 games to winning 22? Probably not just as when scheduling Brockport (14-12-1 prior year)Becker (13-12-2) Johnson and Wales 12-14, teams are always hoping to improve unfortunately the 3 Suny schools on the CSC schedule only won 21 games between them, Johnson and Wales over .500. Mind you the same SUNY schools that Oswego and Plattsburg play as well


It's not that they play too physical.....There are other reasons: this is what they need look in the mirror about....Perception is huge here!!!

USM's OOC schedule: Elimra, Buffalo State, Salem State, Colby, Middlebury, and the US U18 Team(yeah I know it doesn't count)....How many of those teams do you think would play CSC???

PSUChamps2001
03-08-2011, 10:57 AM
They are a physical team get over it it's hockey! and when they take dumb penalties they pay for it being a man down, as for schedule do you think the teams that scheduled CSC ever thought they would go from winning 9 games to winning 22? Probably not just as when scheduling Brockport (14-12-1 prior year)Becker (13-12-2) Johnson and Wales 12-14, teams are always hoping to improve unfortunately the 3 Suny schools on the CSC schedule only won 21 games between them, Johnson and Wales over .500. Mind you the same SUNY schools that Oswego and Plattsburg play as well

Correct, exactly why both Oswego and PlattsburgH play one of the hardest NC schedules around. You can't control what happens in your conference, but your NC schedule you have some say in...

93GreatLaker
03-08-2011, 11:16 AM
Well here is a start seeing everyone has to do your work for you....

3/6 Secret

3/1
http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?94898-3-1-Regional-Rankings-are-up...

St.Norbert
Adrian
Hamline
UWS
Stout
MSOE
Gustavus

2/22
St Norbert
Adrian
Hamline
Stout
Superior
St.Thomas
MSOE

2/15
Cant seem to find (or was this the first "secret" ranking)

They can rank who ever they want. Once ranked always ranked. They could rank all the lower teams in the first and last "secret" rankings to help add some wins agaisnt ranked opponents to their top teams. This was something new this year. For years it was always only concidered ranked in that weeks poll. And you last line is exactly what I talk about when the discussion of UTICA and the ECAC West comes up. If they play weak OOC games and boost up their own SOS, when they play each other they seem like they are playing harder teams.

Now moving on, each "region" is ranked (east 1-11, west 1-7) call it fair or not thats what they do. Using the criteria:

Primary Criteria:
Team's winning percentage in region (WIN, win%)
Strength of schedule, weighted combination of OWP and OOP:
Opponent's winning percentage in-region (OWP)
Opponent's opponent's winning percentage in-region (OOP, OOWP)
Record against common opponents of compared teams in-region (COP)
Head-to-head record of compared teams in-region (H2H)
Record against ranked teams in region (RNK, discussed below)

Secondary criteria
Head-to-head record of compared teams out of region
Team's winning percentage in all Division-III games (in and out of region)
Team's winning percentage in all games
Record against common non-Division-III opponents
Record against ranked teams in and out of region
Record against all common opponents (in and out of region)
Overall Division-III strength of schedule (in and out of region)
Winning percentage in the last 25% of the season

Amazingly enough, we also have team comparisons that show us these criteria and how a team would stack up against another found here: http://www.uscho.com/rankings/pwc/d-iii-men/team-by-team/

Once they are all ranked in their region, and all the Pool A and Pool B slots are filled its time for Pool C bids (at large) They take their remaining teams (in order from their region) and go one by one down the order.

So you would have seen first UWS vs Neumann of which Neumann wins that criteria over UWS which puts them in the dance.

Next you would have (and we assume here because the final rankings are secret) UWS vs Castleton
The criteria is tied 1-1 with Castleton taking Win % and UWS taking SOS. Not sure what ranked was and dont think there was any Common Opponents and no H2H. Based on what the Committee has done over the years (see Adrian/St.Johns) they weigh the SOS heavily, Thus giving the bid to UWS.

Had the East ranked Salem ahead of Castleton it would still have been a tie 1-1 (same way) with UWS, but a lot closer in SOS. Again not sure on the others, but it could have been enough to put Salem in over UWS?? Maybe.

Had the East ranked Utica ahead of Castleton, Utica would have won 2-0 over UWS winning both Win % and SOS.

But, this year the committee (at least the East) went by the book when ranking teams that we know of (see the 2 secret rankings we will never know)

Excellent post, with all that said I would be interested in why the Eastern Committee ranked Castleton over Utica. After all, Utica and Superior were very similar in that they both beat Castleton in SOS (Utica even more so) and both had a lower win % than Castleton (though Utica's win % was better than Superior). Record vs. common opponents for Utica and Castleton was even so that did not come into play. Did it come down to record vs ranked opponents? Weren't Utica's and Superior's records against ranked opponents similar, and both at a lower win% than Castleton's?

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with Superior getting in over both Utica and Castleton, but it appears the criteria that put Superior ahead of Castleton would have put Utica over Castleton as well. And if that were the case, Utica wins the comparison with Superior and they would be in the dance.

And in regards to the contention that if you lose to a team 4 times in one year that precludes you from being in the NCAAs that is BS. I know of a team that lost to another 5 times (ultimately 6) and received a bid:(

norm1909
03-08-2011, 11:20 AM
Well I was just trying to take pity on that poor dead horse that a couple of them have been continuing to beat unmercifully.

And to think, I thought they were trying CPR ;) :rolleyes: