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View Full Version : Maine Black Bears, 2010-2011, Redemption or FORE, I say......



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Bucky T. Badger
02-07-2011, 03:33 PM
Anyone happen to catch Bob Beers on the NESN pregame show friday night I think it was discussing his role in helping to elevate the Maine hockey program to the pinnacle of college hockey? You could tell it meant a lot to him....I can remember when Walshy was recruiting Beersy at the time ....had a laugh over other college recruiters probably following Grant around the country after seeing Beersy transfer from Northern Arizona to Maine.

No, I missed that, that sounds good. What was Beers doing at Northern Arizona? If they have a hockey team it must be Div 3 or club -- I've never heard of it.

walrus
02-07-2011, 03:44 PM
No, I missed that, that sounds good. What was Beers doing at Northern Arizona? If they have a hockey team it must be Div 3 or club -- I've never heard of it.

I think they had a d1 squad

BoSox3066
02-07-2011, 03:50 PM
Who does the buck stop with? He is in charge of the program, he signs off on the recruits, he runs the practices, he picks the asst coaches. He says who plays and who doesn't.

Word for word. The guy is paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to win hockey games. It really doesn't matter if he's nice, mean, well liked, not well liked. It's a bottom line business. If you want to keep your job, find a way. Nice guys and guys with rings have been dismissed for far less than the "success" Timmy's had the last 3 1/2 years.

walrus
02-07-2011, 03:53 PM
It's not surprising that there is so much doom and gloom about the Maine program after such a harsh weekend, but when you step back it seems like people are much more positive about the team after wins and much more negative after loses, !

I think this is true, fans are always going to be disappointed after losses. The problem is the good weekends seem to end every fall and then its a down pour of bad weekends so frustration comes pouring out.

rufus
02-07-2011, 04:19 PM
You answered your own question. Goal tending. In addition, the bounce of the puck in hockey is huge. As the saying goes, "there are times when it is far better to be lucky than good". In addition, it's difficult to make comparisons with teams in the past because game situations and the opposition is totally different.

So goaltending is the only difference between the '95 team and it's success, and this year's team and its lack of. Oh, that anda little puck luck. Why that team won 30 games with no real superstar talent, beat a superior on paper Michigan team with an even better goalie.

You put Blair Allison on this team and they're leading HE. Yeah, right.

rufus
02-07-2011, 04:24 PM
I have no idea why Bishop came. It seems to me that you want to blame him 100% for Maine's problems and, sure, if Blais had come instead of going to UNO, you may have a point but you'll never know. There are worst coaches/recruiters than Whitehead.

Yes, and they don't make the NCAA's either.



seems like people are much more positive about the team after wins and much more negative after loses, especially loses as frustrating at Saturday nights,

I'm not negative about Saturday's loss, frustrating as it was. The team played great, and just didn't get the breaks to fall their way. Happens.

I'm very negative about Friday's loss, because the defensive zone play was atrocious, and any decently coached group of defensemen shoul;dn't be making those kinds of mistakes at this point in the season. Especially when a number of them are upperclassmen, and supposed to be experienced.

rufus
02-07-2011, 04:33 PM
I think they had a d1 squad

Yep. The reason Beers came to Maine was because N. Arizona folded their program.

I still remember the end to end rush and score he did against Northeastern in the HE semis to give Maine the win and move on to the championship game. I think 1989, when the tourney was held at Conte because of the measles outbreaks?

MEpucknut
02-07-2011, 04:38 PM
It's not surprising that there is so much doom and gloom about the Maine program after such a harsh weekend, but when you step back it seems like people are much more positive about the team after wins and much more negative after loses, especially loses as frustrating at Saturday nights, yet it is likely that the truth is more moderate and not as gloomy as it seems at present. Buck up!

I think its more than just a weekend, its 4+ years of false hope relayed by our fearless "leader". Remember everybody "the future is now" this was to be the return of Maine Hockey and Mr. Whitehead failed. This program is the breadwinner for the university. If this was basketball at Duke or football at Ohio State would they tolerate 4 years of missing the NCAA tourney after being consistent contenders for 15 years?. Absolutely not!!

At this point the talent is there for an NCAA bid, but instead our coaches system stifles our creative playmaking abilities. We seem to recruit potent offensive talent only to make them into defensive forwards and recruit defensive d-men and expect them to be offensive juggernauts. We need a consistent focus and a commitment to that focus. We are trying to be all things at once falling short each year. We are kind of offensive, kind of defensive, kind of possession, Kind of dump and chase, kind of, kind of, kind of. The coach has to establish an identity and stick to it. All successful teams share these characteristics in common; all teams that struggle, struggle, in part, due to a lack of identity and a lack of focus. This team as no identity, direction or focus and the coach has to be held accountable.

The fans are starting realize this and are beginning to organize their resentment. Look no further than the growing popularity of the "fire Tim Whitehead group" on facebook (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=186978081078#!/group.php?gid=186978081078)

Ma#1ne Hky
02-07-2011, 04:39 PM
So goaltending is the only difference between the '95 team and it's success, and this year's team and its lack of. Oh, that anda little puck luck. Why that team won 30 games with no real superstar talent, beat a superior on paper Michigan team with an even better goalie.

You put Blair Allison on this team and they're leading HE. Yeah, right. Boy if we had a Blair Allison type goalie this season...we would be far off better...but we don't so that ends this post.

fiqure8
02-07-2011, 05:32 PM
I think its more than just a weekend, its 4+ years of false hope relayed by our fearless "leader". Remember everybody "the future is now" this was to be the return of Maine Hockey and Mr. Whitehead failed. This program is the breadwinner for the university. If this was basketball at Duke or football at Ohio State would they tolerate 4 years of missing the NCAA tourney after being consistent contenders for 15 years?. Absolutely not!!

At this point the talent is there for an NCAA bid, but instead our coaches system stifles our creative playmaking abilities. We seem to recruit potent offensive talent only to make them into defensive forwards and recruit defensive d-men and expect them to be offensive juggernauts. We need a consistent focus and a commitment to that focus. We are trying to be all things at once falling short each year. We are kind of offensive, kind of defensive, kind of possession, Kind of dump and chase, kind of, kind of, kind of. The coach has to establish an identity and stick to it. All successful teams share these characteristics in common; all teams that struggle, struggle, in part, due to a lack of identity and a lack of focus. This team as no identity, direction or focus and the coach has to be held accountable.

The fans are starting realize this and are beginning to organize their resentment. Look no further than the growing popularity of the "fire Tim Whitehead group" on facebook (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=186978081078#!/group.php?gid=186978081078)

Maine sure could use more importantly, goaltending.............

Runsub5
02-07-2011, 05:38 PM
I think the UMaine thread is one of the most entertaining ones on USCHO.

"prediction is hard, especially of the future" -Yogi Berra

It's not surprising that there is so much doom and gloom about the Maine program after such a harsh weekend, but when you step back it seems like people are much more positive about the team after wins and much more negative after loses, especially loses as frustrating at Saturday nights, yet it is likely that the truth is more moderate and not as gloomy as it seems at present. Comparisons have been drawn to Lake State, but I don't see why BU could be another model. BU won it's first NC 2 years ago in what, 13 years? A few years before that it finished in what, 8th place I think in the league? It seems like BU alternates between good and mediorce, at least for Hockey East and I don't see why Maine might not end up being like that. Not a BC, not as dominent as it used to be, but still very good. Perhaps that is being overly generous of Maine's past few years, but I still think the comparison is still at least potentially correct. IMHO... Buck up!

Good post.

BoSox3066
02-07-2011, 06:30 PM
You put Blair Allison on this team and they're leading HE. Yeah, right.

Gotta say I think with Allison in net they'd be in second or third....you're talking 4-5 extra wins with excellent goaltending from where i sit.

KnowItAll
02-07-2011, 06:52 PM
Has anyone reached out to the Lake Superior State fans for advice on how to deal with the inevitable fall from a once proud program back into irrelevance? Perhaps with some dialogue with them, we can create a 12-step program to help you guys cope with the hardship that you're enduring at this time.

are you old enough to remember how Ceglarski ruined a top program? AND what was done to right the ship?

Getting rid of an ineffective crazy man was half of what turned BC's hockey team around

first step for Maine is getting rid of the problem

KnowItAll
02-07-2011, 07:03 PM
Acs, i'm glad you'd take diamond...with him in the penalty box all game long, fine by me!

Also, umile doesn't come close to parker when it comes to being a tyrant

you ain't paying attention if you do not see how many penalties he draws by getting defenders to throw him into their own goaltenders, spearing him, punching him because of his mouth...
I bet his plus minus for penalties earned and penalties drawn are in Maine's favor

and clearly YOU know the value of running an opposing goaltender better than most hockey fans... those 2 minutes can mean 2 or 3 goals for (but you knew that)

Bucky T. Badger
02-07-2011, 07:27 PM
Gotta say I think with Allison in net they'd be in second or third....you're talking 4-5 extra wins with excellent goaltending from where i sit.

I agree, or at least I was thinking the same thing and might have made the same post if you hadn't.

I decided to look up the actual stats, however, and discovered that Allison's save percentage was only 88.7% in 94-95 (it was also 88.7% in 95-96, so was quite consistent). That would be 2nd best on the current Maine team:

Sirman 89.3%
Allison 88.7%
Sullivan 88.3%
Ouellette 87.4%

Nevertheless I suspect that a majority of Maine fans would take Allison in '95 over Sirman in '11. :D

There is probably truth in that, for this simple comparison doesn't take into account potential improvements in strength training and equipment (perhaps Allison would have a better save percentage if he were currently playing) and the possibility that the team played differently in front of him than the current Maine teams plays in front of Sirman/Sullivan/Ouellette (i.e. perhaps the current Maine team worries more about the goalie position and hence are more conservative in their attack).

Bucky T. Badger
02-07-2011, 07:44 PM
An addition to my last post:

Allison has the longest consecutive starting streak of any UM goaltender, 51 games. I got to wondering what the difference in team GAA would be if you compared Allison playing every game this season with 88.7% saved versus the current hodgepodge of keeping.

Sirman has a slightly better save percentage, but because of the rotation Maine's team save percentage is only 88.3% - Maine has faced 655 shots and allowed 76 goals. With Allison in net saving 88.7% Maine allows 74.

Still, in the final analysis, this all rings hollow - I suspect that having the '95 Allison in net this season would translate to more than 2 additional victories and I think that the game has likely changed since then. Nine out of Maine's 10 goalies with the highest season save percentages all played since 2000. Really makes you realize just how good Snow was...

J.D.
02-07-2011, 08:01 PM
I just said that.......IT'S NOT THE COACH!!! No one wants to come to Maine anymore.......it's too far away from civilization. Plus Conte, Whittemore, Agganis, etc are MUCH bertter than Alfond......especially the fan support!

Would you agree that it's easier to recruit to BC/BU than it is Maine? And while BC's fan support isn't top notch, it's been pretty **** good this year.


are you old enough to remember how Ceglarski ruined a top program? AND what was done to right the ship?

Getting rid of an ineffective crazy man was half of what turned BC's hockey team around

Let's no get crazy here. Ceglarski went 27-12 in his 2nd to last season and made the NCAAs. His last season was 14-18-3. Surely you can come up with a better example than him. Cedorchuk ruined the program, not Ceglarski.


and clearly YOU know the value of running an opposing goaltender better than most hockey fans

I do?

rufus
02-07-2011, 08:08 PM
Gotta say I think with Allison in net they'd be in second or third....you're talking 4-5 extra wins with excellent goaltending from where i sit.

With this defense in front of him?

Certainly, there've ben many soft goals given up by our goaltenders this season. But there have been just as many goals where they've had no chance on, shot by guys right in the slot left uncovered or allowed to skate right on in.

Hockeypuck
02-07-2011, 08:08 PM
I agree, or at least I was thinking the same thing and might have made the same post if you hadn't.

I decided to look up the actual stats, however, and discovered that Allison's save percentage was only 88.7% in 94-95 (it was also 88.7% in 95-96, so was quite consistent). That would be 2nd best on the current Maine team:

Sirman 89.3%
Allison 88.7%
Sullivan 88.3%
Ouellette 87.4%

Nevertheless I suspect that a majority of Maine fans would take Allison in '95 over Sirman in '11. :D

There is probably truth in that, for this simple comparison doesn't take into account potential improvements in strength training and equipment (perhaps Allison would have a better save percentage if he were currently playing) and the possibility that the team played differently in front of him than the current Maine teams plays in front of Sirman/Sullivan/Ouellette (i.e. perhaps the current Maine team worries more about the goalie position and hence are more conservative in their attack).Big difference between the amount of goal scoring in 94-95 and today. In 94-95 6 of the 9 teams in the league averaged over 4 gpg in HE play and this year you have only 4 teams out of the 10 that average over 3 gpg. Allison was the only goalie in HE to have a gaa of under 3.00 in league play and the league leader in sv% was .902. Sirman would probably be at about .840 back in the mid 90's.

Bucky T. Badger
02-07-2011, 08:17 PM
Good article by Larry, came out in the last few hours: http://new.bangordailynews.com/2011/02/07/sports/umaine-mens-hockey-likely-must-win-hockey-east-tourney/

Says Maine will likely have to win HE tourney to go to NCAAs.