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WildShawn
02-17-2011, 01:37 PM
the grey area is when you calculate a GPA what number does a "pass" grade count as. Maine interpreted it to be one thing (a 2.0 maybe?) while the NCAA equates it with something else, and the difference changed the eligibility of the player. If I remember right the player had a number of "pass" grades from high school?

Do the pass/fail numbers count towards GPA, or just towards credits?

Erix_The_Red
02-17-2011, 01:38 PM
I don't care about a number, I care about severity,


What years did Maine disgrace college hockey by violating NCAA rules more than any other program in our fine sport's history?

"More different" rules, perhaps?

thecomicbookguy
02-17-2011, 02:11 PM
that is right, and to play the idiot game (like the people who are merely looking at the NUMBER of infractions.)
scott borek was guilty of infinitely more infractions than maine ever was... you see each email over the allowed number is a single infraction.

UNH... THOUSANDS of infractions.
Maine, only about 50.

gosh... WILDSHAWN and whoever else doesn'ty understand thse sorts of things...
see what happens when you are not willing to THINK?
or are you not able to comprehend that either?
Actually, since there was a finite number of e-mails sent, no, he's not.



really??? I got a good idea that you are fluent in 1337 speak, but you feel a need to pick on comma use on a board like this?
Not sure where you got that idea. I don't think I've ever used a number as a letter on this board other than to get around a filter (or when discussing the movie Se7en. As for the comma usage, poor grammar is a pet peeve of mine, and his is especially bad.


the NCAA acted almost completely unreasonably
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3187/waahmbulancevj2.jpg


the dolts are going to be VERY unhappy when/if the NCAA investigates the reason why UNH does well in the regular season and not so well in the post season.... (hint... motherwell and o'hanley found out the hard way what happens if you are not aware that you are playing in an NCAA sponosred game as opposed to a regular season game)
GRIN!
We may be dolts, but you're the one getting all *ed off about all of this.

(And did you really take the time to type out, "GRIN"? Wow.)

WildShawn
02-17-2011, 02:16 PM
(And did you really take the time to type out, "GRIN"? Wow.)

at least he didn't type GR1N!

walrus
02-17-2011, 02:57 PM
Too bad this video doesn't show whistlin Dick trying to get a line change and Hobey boy realizing he screwed the pooch by not back checking quite hard enough.******** style="height: 390px; width: 640px">******* name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/11BhSoI3PCc?version=3">******* name="allowFullScreen" value="true">******* name="allowScriptAccess" value="always">******* src="http://www.youtube.com/v/11BhSoI3PCc?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Lake Whitt
02-17-2011, 03:01 PM
What years did Maine disgrace college hockey by violating NCAA rules more than any other program in our fine sport's history?
1984-1995


please post the SPECIFIC infractions, including details or shut tfu
This was already done pre-database crash and included detailed refutations of ridiculous counter-claims by yourself and others, including:

claim: "improper meals provided to student athletes" was regarding a situation where due to time constraints (players were given 15 minutes to eat) members of the men's hockey team were given two servings of pudding while it was all you can eat for other students provided they made multiple trips
NCAA report: "During the 1984-85 through 1993-94 academic years, members of the menís ice hockey team received meals in the university's dining hall, which were not included in their financial aid awards. Specifically:
1. On several occasions, the head menís ice hockey coach arranged for menís ice hockey student-athletes to receive at no cost two meals the day of or the day prior to a game. In addition, individuals who were not practicing or competing were provided pregame meals at no cost on the day of competition.
2. During the 1994 fall semester, a dining services employee provided free meals to 17 menís ice hockey student-athletes at the institution's dining hall by either not requiring student-athletes to pay for meals or by not debiting their meal cards. University records were inadequate for determining if any other sports were involved."

claim: "improper transportation" was regarding the single use of a truck to move a couch across campus
NCAA report: "From the fall of 1990 through the fall of 1994, 10 representatives of the university's athletics interests provided 14 menís ice hockey students with local automobile transportation between the apartments or dormitories in which the student-athletes resided and the homes of the athletics representatives."

claim: the team was provided w/ strippers
NCAA report: "the institution provided impermissible entertainment to the menís ice hockey team when it permitted the team to stay at a resort hotel more than 100 miles from the tournament site in Los Angeles."
(report doesn't address this claim specifically)

Claim: that the sponsor-family program was acceptable because it was school wide
NCAA report: "the menís ice hockey sponsor-family program was never fully integrated with the university-wide program."
Also ignored that lodging continued after the close of the program:
"during the 1991-92 through 1993-94 academic years, at least six menís ice hockey student-athletes and some of their parents, received lodging, meals, modest gifts and transportation from sponsor families"
&
"During the 1993-94 academic year, two representatives of the institution's athletics interests allowed a men's ice hockey student-athlete and his girlfriend to reside in their cabin at little, if any, cost. The student-athlete and his girlfriend paid reduced utility charges and occasionally had use of a vehicle and a telephone calling card."

Claim: "lack of institutional control" was a catch-all for Shawn's refusing to participate with the investigation
NCAA report: "Failure to cooperate fully with the investigation" was for not cooperating with the investigation, "lack of institutional control" was because "From at least the 1984-85 academic year through early 1994, the university failed to demonstrate appropriate institutional control and monitoring in the conduct and administration of its athletics program."


also, when you add the asterisks about where Maine had specific permission from the NCAA and then the NCAA went back and cited Maine for those infractions, point those out as well.
NCAA report on the menís ice hockey sponsor-family program: "This activity occurred despite the fact that the university should have heeded a Legislative Assistance Column published in the October 20, 1986 NCAA News that declared sponsor families were not permissible under NCAA legislation unless they were part of a sponsor program that provided the same benefits and services to all students at the institution. The office of student services, which was not involved with the hockey sponsor-family program, had attempted to establish a host-family program for all students, but lack of community interest kept it from becoming a reality. The head coach remained involved with the menís ice hockey sponsor-family program, even though he had provided host families with a copy of a Committee on Infractions report involving athletics representatives at another institution providing extra benefits to student-athletes."


also... when you DO go and list what Maine did, please compare those infractions to what Syrcacuse basketball did and was never cited for.... k?
The burden is not what Syracuse did or did not do, but whether rules and regulations set by the NCAA were broken - as a member of the National Collegiate Athletic Association the University of Maine has agreed to and is bound by said rules.

http://jedimarri.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/pudding.jpg

Someone further claimed that the violations were "minor"
NCAA report: "the Committee on Infractions found that this case involved several major violations of NCAA legislation."
and that it was Shawn's lack of cooperation with the investigation that led to such strong penalties, with there even being wording in the report "along those lines"
NCAA report: "The nature, number and seriousness of the violations in this case clearly establish that significant penalties are appropriate."

Lake Whitt
02-17-2011, 03:36 PM
UNH was also sanctioned by the ncaa and still has no titles the long lasting legacy of the University Of No Hardware we have 2 what about you?
IMPERMISSIBLE EARLY TRANSMISSION OF RECRUITING MATERIAL
Involved Sports: Men's Ice Hockey
Involved Penalties: Television: 0 yrs Reduction in Financial Aid: No Postseason: 0 yrs Recruiting: Yes Probation: 2 yrs Show Cause Action: No Vacation of Record: No

vs.

IMPERMISSIBLE LODGING, MEALS AND OTHER EXTRA BENEFITS PROVIDED TO STUDENT-ATHLETES BY SPONSOR FAMILIES.
IMPERMISSIBLE LODGING, UTILITIES, AND USE OF AUTOMOBILE AND TELEPHONE CARD PROVIDED TO A STUDENT-ATHLETE BY ATHLETICS REPRESENTATIVES.
IMPROPER MEALS PROVIDED TO STUDENT-ATHLETES.
PROVISION BY ATHLETICS REPRESENTATIVES OF TICKETS, FOOD AND SOUVENIRS TO STUDENT-ATHLETES ATTENDING A PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL GAME.
COMPETITION BY INELIGIBLE STUDENT-ATHLETES.
IMPROPER RECRUITING (MEN'S ICE HOCKEY).
IMPERMISSIBLE RECRUITING (SPORTS OTHER THAN MEN'S ICE HOCKEY).
IMPROPER COMPENSATION PROVIDED TO COACHES AND OFF-CAMPUS RECRUITMENT BY A NONCERTIFIED COACH.
FAILURE TO COOPERATE FULLY WITH THE INVESTIGATION.
IMPERMISSIBLE RETROACTIVE FINANCIAL AID.
INSTITUTIONAL FINANCIAL AID IMPROPERLY PROVIDED TO A PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE.
LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL.
SECONDARY VIOLATIONS: IMPROPER TRANSPORTATION AND MEALS PROVIDED TO STUDENT-ATHLETES BY ATHLETICS REPRESENTATIVES.
SECONDARY VIOLATION: IMPERMISSIBLE ENTERTAINMENT.
SECONDARY VIOLATIONS: IMPROPER DISCOUNTS PROVIDED TO STUDENT-ATHLETES BY ATHLETICS REPRESENTATIVES.
SECONDARY VIOLATION: FAILURE TO OBTAIN APPROVAL OF COACHíS OUTSIDE INCOME.
Involved Sports: Field Hockey, Men's Basketball, Men's Golf, Men's Track, Indoor, Women's Cross Country, Women's Track, Indoor, Baseball, Football, Men's Cross Country, Men's Ice Hockey, Men's Track, Outdoor, Women's Soccer, Women's Track, Outdoor
Involved Penalties: Television: 1 yrs Reduction in Financial Aid: Yes Postseason: 2 yrs Recruiting: Yes Probation: 4 yrs Show Cause Action: No Vacation of Record: Yes

The University of Maine committed 36 numbered violations (several with multiple violations identified within the individual violation) in 13 of their 19 athletic programs, where as the NCAA found UNH violated 1 piece of NCAA legislation in 1 sport.


Maybe it was different back then, but when I went to school:
Assuming you had any kind of meal plan, it was near impossible (especially for a student athlete) to use more meals than they had.
"An internal investigation by the university has revealed that 17 student-athletes -- most of whom were hockey players -- violated NCAA rules when they accepted free breakfasts from a cashier at Stewart Commons during the 1994 fall semester."
"I can't speak to the degree to which those students realized their (MaineCards) weren't being scanned or whatever," Diamond said. (1)

In addition, from the NCAA report: "On several occasions, the head menís ice hockey coach arranged for menís ice hockey student-athletes to receive at no cost two meals the day of or the day prior to a game. In addition, individuals who were not practicing or competing were provided pregame meals at no cost on the day of competition."


The fitness center is paid for by a fee that you can not opt-out of.
"Then, last summer, the university discovered that its allowing student-athletes to use Latti Fitness Center for free during the summer violated NCAA regulations because other students had to pay." (1)


Wasn't the academic ineligibility due to a difference in the understanding of how pass/fail works? Soooooo dirty.
"The interpretation of Tory's grades was brought to Maine's attention by Alaska-Fairbanks, which had recruited Tory when he was in high school. When Alaska-Fairbanks came across Tory's pass/fail marks, it asked the NCAA what the marks would be interpreted as. The answer, according to The Maine Campus, was the marks
would be interpreted as D's.

Northern Michigan, which also recruited Tory, asked the NCAA for an interpretation of the pass marks, too. The answer was the same: Tory is ineligible.

Alaska-Fairbanks and Northern Michigan stopped recruiting Tory when their questions were answered." (2)

Furthermore:
"University of Maine head coach Shawn Walsh said Friday he knew Maine defenseman Jeff Tory might have trouble with NCAA academic requirements since last year.

In Saturday's Bangor Daily News, Walsh is reported to have acknowledged he knew Northern Michigan and Alaska-Fairbanks had stopped recruiting Tory when they discovered Tory might be ineligible his freshman year.

Walsh said that while he knew Tory had been rejected by two schools, he didn't bring the rejections to the attention of admissions officials at Maine or the athletic department's NCAA compliance officer, Woody Carville. Carville said if he had known about the rejections, he would have checked with the NCAA office.

Walsh said it's standard procedure for him not to mention potential problems about players who are being recruited - even if the players are accepted at Maine.

"My impression is we had information no one else got," Walsh told the BDN. "I saw no reason to check with the NCAA."

Northern Michigan coach Rick Comley told the BDN he had discussed Tory's academics with Walsh last winter. Comley said he commented to Walsh he saw no way Tory could play as a freshman.

Comley said that in addition to talking with Walsh about Tory, a member of his coaching staff shared written information with UMaine assistant coach Grant Standbrook. The information was about Alaska-Fairbanks's efforts to recruit Tory and the program's subsequent pulling out because of Tory's high school transcript. The NCAA informed Alaska-Fairbanks Tory's grades were not satisfactory.

Walsh believes Tory is eligible and said he stands behind his and Carville's interpretations of the NCAA academic requirements. (3)


(1) "More NCAA violations involving Maine hockey found" - "The Maine Campus" March 29, 1995 http://bangorinfo.com/RRR/ncaa.html
(2) UMaine: Tory is eligible - Information taken from Dec. 3 1993 editions of The Maine Campus and the Bangor Daily News http://lists.maine.edu/cgi/wa?A2=ind9312&L=HOCKEY-L&P=R4170&I=-3
(3) Walsh knew Tory could be trouble - http://lists.maine.edu/cgi/wa?A2=ind9312&L=hockey-l&T=0&I=-3&P=13379

WildShawn
02-17-2011, 04:14 PM
Yeah, well... "They've got Gus, how 'bout us?"

Lake Whitt
02-17-2011, 04:17 PM
that is right, and to play the idiot game (like the people who are merely looking at the NUMBER of infractions.)
scott borek was guilty of infinitely more infractions than maine ever was... you see each email over the allowed number is a single infraction.

UNH... THOUSANDS of infractions.
Maine, only about 50.
This is intentionally misleading, there are a number of issues here including (but not limited to) the number of sports, number of pieces of legislation violated, the window of time that the violations took place over, the nature of violations, etc.

UNH: 1 sports, 1 piece of legislation, 923 emails (not "thousands"), window: fall of 2007 and spring of 2008. Assitant coach made "impermissible early transmission of recruiting material" to 30 prospective students. When discussing what he thought to be permissibile emails with another DI men's ice hockey coach the other coach informed him that he may be in violation of NCAA rules, Borek then contacted the director of compliance.

Maine: 13 (of 19) sports, 16 pieces of legislation, 36 numbered violations and numerous secondary violations, window: 1984-1995, head ice hockey coach actively interfered with the investigation, lack of institutional control


gosh... WILDSHAWN and whoever else doesn'ty understand thse sorts of things...
see what happens when you are not willing to THINK?
or are you not able to comprehend that either?
What happens when you repeatedly and purposely make misrepresentations and tell flat out lies (second servings of pudding)?


the grey area is when you calculate a GPA what number does a "pass" grade count as. Maine interpreted it to be one thing (a 2.0 maybe?) while the NCAA equates it with something else, and the difference changed the eligibility of the player. If I remember right the player had a number of "pass" grades from high school?
As posted above, the NCAA, Northern Michigan and Alaska-Fairbanks all came to one conclusion, Shawn Walsh (without contacting the AD's compliance officer) came to a different conclusion.

Lake Whitt
02-17-2011, 04:44 PM
I will agree that most of these 4 or so infractions are bad... but a lot of dolts online seem to think that Maine was guilty of hundreds of bad things...
there were hundreds of idiotic missteps that the NCAA used to bolster its case, and three or 4 bad things that should have been punished... and they were.
"During the 1993-94 and 1994-95 academic years, the institution improperly certified numerous menís ice hockey, football, menís basketball, menís golf, and menís and womenís track and field and cross country student-athletes and permitted them to compete while ineligible. One of these violations also resulted in a violation of financial aid legislation."
"In December 1993, the head menís ice hockey coach received $1,700 of supplemental income from three representatives of the institution's athletics interests while he was suspended without pay from his duties. The head coach deposited these checks but returned $500 to one of the athletics representatives approximately three weeks later. Several days prior to the deposits, the director of athletics had informed the head coach that NCAA legislation precluded him from accepting such funds from outside sources."
"In August 1993, a menís ice hockey volunteer coach received a $500 bonus from Friends of Maine Hockey, a hockey booster group, as recognition for the team's 1993 national championship, even though a booster organization is prohibited from providing compensation or remuneration to a volunteer coach in sports other than football and basketball. This bonus was provided with the full knowledge and approval of the director of athletics at that time."
"During the investigation of this case, the head men's ice hockey coach violated the NCAA cooperative principle regarding enforcement issues. He contacted, or was responsible for someone else contacting, individuals involved with the investigation and he discussed matters related to the investigation without the prior authorization or knowledge of the institution or enforcement staff. These contacts were made after he received explicit and repeated instruction by the institution and the enforcement staff not to discuss the investigation with involved individuals during the preliminary inquiry phase of the investigation, except for consultation with legal counsel."
"During the 1990-91 through 1992-93 academic years, the institution retroactively awarded financial aid to 17 men's ice hockey student-athletes, eight menís basketball student-athletes and four football student-athletes who had attended summer school. On May 5, 1994, the institution also awarded a menís ice hockey student-athlete retroactive financial aid for the 1994 spring semester when it credited his account for $690.10 of athletically related aid. The improperly awarded financial aid did not result in excessive financial aid."
"From at least the 1984-85 academic year through early 1994, the university failed to demonstrate appropriate institutional control and monitoring in the conduct and administration of its athletics program."
"three or 4 bad things", just a sampling I assure you.

Lake Whitt
02-17-2011, 04:48 PM
Too bad this video doesn't show whistlin Dick trying to get a line change and Hobey boy realizing he screwed the pooch by not back checking quite hard enough.******** style="height: 390px; width: 640px">******* name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/11BhSoI3PCc?version=3">******* name="allowFullScreen" value="true">******* name="allowScriptAccess" value="always">******* src="http://www.youtube.com/v/11BhSoI3PCc?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JhBiXe3k1C0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

41-1-2*

walrus
02-17-2011, 04:51 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JhBiXe3k1C0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

41-1-2*
Ouch
keep trying but always remember Hobey Boy trying to get back in the play, what a great defensive forward he was.

acs64
02-17-2011, 05:00 PM
Whats this ? You guyz still on probation ?? :D:D:D

http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090723/SPORTS/307239857

acs64
02-17-2011, 05:06 PM
Did somebody mention Hobey? Heres a real, legit Hobey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74jQlG_nTDI&feature=PlayList&p=C3B9E641FE9E053C&playnext=1&index=30

Lake Whitt
02-17-2011, 05:10 PM
Whats this ? You guyz still on probation ?? :D:D:D

http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090723/SPORTS/307239857
NCAA report: "The institution has imposed a two-year probationary period to include increased monitoring and written institutional reports to the NCAA. The period of probation commenced the date the institution accepted the committee's additional recommended penalties (April 24, 2009) and will conclude on April 23, 2011. (Institution imposed.)"


Did somebody mention Hobey? Heres a real, legit Hobey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74jQlG_nTDI&feature=PlayList&p=C3B9E641FE9E053C&playnext=1&index=30
How many extra benefits did he get?

acs64
02-17-2011, 05:11 PM
NCAA report: "The institution has imposed a two-year probationary period to include increased monitoring and written institutional reports to the NCAA. The period of probation commenced the date the institution accepted the committee's additional recommended penalties (April 24, 2009) and will conclude on April 23, 2011. (Institution imposed.)"

Well, cheating is just plain cheating, eh? :D

WildShawn
02-17-2011, 05:17 PM
Well, cheating is just plain cheating, eh? :D

Its a bummer that we had to forefit all of those games and are banned from the post-season, and our coach can't coach for a year :(

walrus
02-17-2011, 05:18 PM
Did somebody mention Hobey? Heres a real, legit Hobey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74jQlG_nTDI&feature=PlayList&p=C3B9E641FE9E053C&playnext=1&index=30

That video rules, so many great memories of the season. Never ever will I have as much fun following a Maine team. Unreal

WildShawn
02-17-2011, 05:18 PM
Ouch
keep trying but always remember Hobey Boy trying to get back in the play, what a great defensive forward he was.

You're kidding right? He was regarded as one of the better defensive forwards in the league, and he's the only forward we've ever had that ever won a faceoff. But I guess when you're used to guys like Nyquist, everyone looks like Pavel Datsyuk

acs64
02-17-2011, 05:19 PM
Its a bummer that we had to forefit all of those games and are banned from the post-season, and our coach can't coach for a year :(

It a bummer your cheating is occuring now, ours is two decades in the rear view mirror.....and besides, I wud question whether ur coach can really coach. Not that ours can either, but hes on the way out. :D And, yaughn, ultimately, you know, we have 2 and howbout you ?? ;)