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FlagDUDE08
12-22-2010, 07:56 PM
More on the ECAC-Hockey East split:

COLLEGE HOCKEY; Unification Considered by Two Leagues (http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/09/sports/college-hockey-unification-considered-by-two-leagues.html?src=pm) The New York Times - November 09, 1988

Thank you for the explanations. As for Maine, you can keep them, unless you want Q-Pac, and Dartmouth doesn't mind the travel partnering. ;)

PrezdeJohnson09
12-22-2010, 08:10 PM
If you really want to see the online source, it is in Bylaw 17.12.5.3 (pages 273-274) in the NCAA Division I Manual: http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D111.pdf.

The game limit is 34. The following games do not count against the 34-game limit, but do count in official NCAA Statistics and Records--
* Hockey Hall of Fame Game--a single fundraising game conducted every year
* Ice Breaker Tournament--a single 4-team, 2-game tournament conducted every year
* Any game played in Hawaii or Alaska--only by a school from outside those states against a school inside that state
* Conference championship tournament
* NCAA tournament

Also not counting against the 34-game limit, and not counting in NCAA statistics--
* Home game against a foreign team, such as a Canadian University or a foreign national team--limit one
* One away tour against foreign teams--limit one tour every four years.
* US National Teams--a single game per year against any US National Team (e.g., Olympic Team, World Junior Team, Under-18 Development Team, etc.)
* "Alumni game" (exhibition of current players vs alumni of the school)--limit one
* Certain other charity game activities are also permitted, but generally may not involve the entire team.

Typically, a team will play about 34-38 regular-season games plus 1-2 exhibitions. Teams rarely play more than 8-10 playoff games, so I would be surprised if any team has managed to play 50 games in a season (counting exhibitions) since the basic limit was lowered from 38 to 34.

What about games against D-III teams?

Dartmouth will host D-III Norwich in late October 2011 in Hanover. I know it doesn't count against Norwich's 25-game limit but does it have any different effects for Dartmouth?

Alton
12-22-2010, 10:25 PM
What about games against D-III teams?

Dartmouth will host D-III Norwich in late October 2011 in Hanover. I know it doesn't count against Norwich's 25-game limit but does it have any different effects for Dartmouth?

I guess I don't know the D-III rules, but my reading of Bylaw 17.12 (page 154) in the D-III manual is that a game against Dartmouth will count against the 25-game limit.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D311.pdf

This game certainly would count against Dartmouth's 34-game limit per the NCAA Division I Bylaw that I linked in my post that you quoted. The fact is, though, that the Ivy League might have different rules and it's entirely possible that the game might not count against Dartmouth's 29-game limit as an Ivy League member. The NCAA takes no notice of the Ivy League 29-game limit, so even though the NCAA would consider Dartmouth's schedule to have 30 games the Ivy League might consider it to have 29 games.

ClOuD 9
12-23-2010, 07:07 PM
I imagine it would count as an exhibition game for Dartmouth. Dartmouth also played a "scrimmage" at Yale at the beginning of this season.


Thank you for the explanations. As for Maine, you can keep them, unless you want Q-Pac, and Dartmouth doesn't mind the travel partnering. ;)
Accepted - you got hosed in this deal, suckers!

Alton
12-23-2010, 08:40 PM
I imagine it would count as an exhibition game for Dartmouth. Dartmouth also played a "scrimmage" at Yale at the beginning of this season.


I am convinced that the 'scrimmage' against Yale on 23 October counted against Dartmouth's 34-game limit in the NCAA's eyes. This is why you only ever see Ivy League schools play in such "scrimmage" games--because it is really game #30 as far as the NCAA is concerned. The NCAA rule book is pretty clear that all games between two US 4-year colleges count against the limit, unless they fall under one of the exempt categories that were listed earlier in this thread.

Yes, it is very likely that this game between Dartmouth and Norwich next year will be of the same 'scrimmage' classification--something that counts as game #30 per NCAA rules but does not count against the Ivy League 29-game limit.

Federal League
12-23-2010, 09:27 PM
Also not counting against the 34-game limit, and not counting in NCAA statistics--
* Home game against a foreign team, such as a Canadian University or a foreign national team--limit one

UMass hosted both New Brunswick and the Sweden U-20 Team this season. Any idea how they got around the one-game foreign limit? BU was scheduled to host both Toronto and the Sweden U-20s before the Sweden game was dropped- rumor had it the Swedes had visa issues and couldn't be in the country long enough to stay for that game, although that was never confirmed.

Alton
12-23-2010, 10:00 PM
UMass hosted both New Brunswick and the Sweden U-20 Team this season. Any idea how they got around the one-game foreign limit?

There seems to be a simple answer for that--they got around the limit by only scheduling 33 games aginst NCAA competition. By my count, they have their 27 Hockey East games, 6 non-conference games (Minnesota-2, Wisconsin-2, Army, Quinnipiac), plus the 2 games you mention. They are allowed to exempt 1 of the 2 games against foreign teams, and the other 1 is counted against their 34-game limit.

As far as BU is concerned, it looks like they wouldn't have been able to play that game against Sweden--they have 34 games plus the 2 exempt IceBreaker games plus their 1 exempt foreign game against Toronto.

Federal League
12-23-2010, 10:07 PM
There seems to be a simple answer for that--they got around the limit by only scheduling 33 games aginst NCAA competition. By my count, they have their 27 Hockey East games, 6 non-conference games (Minnesota-2, Wisconsin-2, Army, Quinnipiac), plus the 2 games you mention. They are allowed to exempt 1 of the 2 games against foreign teams, and the other 1 is counted against their 34-game limit.

As far as BU is concerned, it looks like they wouldn't have been able to play that game against Sweden--they have 34 games plus the 2 exempt IceBreaker games plus their 1 exempt foreign game against Toronto.

Ah... that makes sense. I hadn't even bothered to count if they were at the 34-game limit or not. :o

FlagDUDE08
12-24-2010, 07:10 AM
I should mention that the exemption limit is not 1 in any category, it is 1 per category. RPI has 34 traditional games, played a foreign team (UNB), and then the USA Junior National Team.

MagnessMan
12-28-2010, 01:22 AM
Interesting thread. Here's a question. On Thursday the Hall of Fame Game is being played (isn't it usually at the beginning of the season between NC opponents?) This year it's between UND and UMD two WCHA teams. It's listed as a NC game and I'm told it won't count in the WCHA standings. Strange.

FlagDUDE08
12-28-2010, 06:21 AM
Interesting thread. Here's a question. On Thursday the Hall of Fame Game is being played (isn't it usually at the beginning of the season between NC opponents?) This year it's between UND and UMD two WCHA teams. It's listed as a NC game and I'm told it won't count in the WCHA standings. Strange.

Probably because their quota of in-conference gmes are already being fulfilled with the 34, and as an extra one, they do NC. ECAC non-ivies play each other in NC games all the time.

uaafanblog
12-28-2010, 06:28 AM
I slogged through the NCAA regs and don't find any prohibition against playing a "professional" team.

Does anyone know of instances where an NCAA team played a game or games against a professional team?

I'd really like to see UAA play the ECHL Alaska Aces in a couple of mid-season exhibitions and would work to make something like that happen.

FlagDUDE08
12-28-2010, 06:39 AM
I slogged through the NCAA regs and don't find any prohibition against playing a "professional" team.

Does anyone know of instances where an NCAA team played a game or games against a professional team?

I'd really like to see UAA play the ECHL Alaska Aces in a couple of mid-season exhibitions and would work to make something like that happen.

I'm sure there were some instances in the distant past where teams would play professional teams. However, I'm sure the schedules don't allow for this to happen on both sides.

uaafanblog
12-28-2010, 09:47 AM
I'm sure there were some instances in the distant past where teams would play professional teams. However, I'm sure the schedules don't allow for this to happen on both sides.

I don't know about other schools but I know UAA's schedule could fit such a game or series in easily. As for the Aces, due to geography they have a somewhat unique schedule in their league as well and I'd expect they'd be able to schedule such an event. I have no clue whether they'd be interested in playing the game(s) but that's not a question for here.

So that just leaves the question of whether or not such a game or series would bump up against any NCAA regulations. As I noted, I didn't see any prohibition against it in the NCAA regs. I hoped that someone more well versed than I with the rule book would be able to speak to that.

Puck Swami
12-28-2010, 09:48 AM
There is no rule against it as far as I know. Years ago (50s and 60s) the University of Michigan would play the Detroit Red Wings each year.

This happens other in sports, too.

The Philadelphia Phillies open spring training this year with a game against Florida State.

Denver lacrosse has played the Denver Outlaws (MLL), and Denver Soccer has played the Colorado Rapids (MLS) in recent exhibitions. Denver basketball played six pro team on a Spanish tour last summer. Michigan Tech hockey played a bunch of European pro teams this summer.

uaafanblog
12-28-2010, 10:14 AM
Thank you.

Freddie
01-05-2011, 01:35 PM
I slogged through the NCAA regs and don't find any prohibition against playing a "professional" team.

Does anyone know of instances where an NCAA team played a game or games against a professional team?

I'd really like to see UAA play the ECHL Alaska Aces in a couple of mid-season exhibitions and would work to make something like that happen.

Way back on Oct 17 1977, Bowling Green played an exhibition game at home against the Toledo Goaldiggers (then members of the old International Hockey League). I don't remember the details, but there were so many fights, that the game was stopped after two periods. 'Offically' recorded as a 1-0 forfeit in BG's favor. It was a total blood-bath...like the 3rd period of the final game in 'Slapshot'. PS-college players didn't wear cages or face shields in those days.