Figure we might as well carry over and invite everyone to the conversation.
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Chatham University — The Steps to Improvement
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Re: Chatham University — The Steps to Improvement
Originally posted by posttopost2 View PostTime, Patience and a good recruiting class.
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Re: Chatham University — The Steps to Improvement
Having had a daughter who played and graduated from Chatham, I think consistancy is necessary. Changing coaches every two to three years does not help the program. Each coach has inherited a class, recruited a class or two and poof, they're gone. My daughter played three years there and had two different coaches with two completely different styles. Yes, it may be painful to watch Chatham lose year after year but at some point, with a strong coach at the helm, things will turn around, games will be won, and recruiting will improve. I think those who use the excuse that "it's an all girls school" need to look at the turn around that has happened at St Catherines. They too are an all girls school and are currently 4-0. Big difference, Brad Marshall is starting his sixth season as the coach. Chatham is on their third coach in 5 years.
Just my two cents..."Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard"
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Re: Chatham University — The Steps to Improvement
Retention in a staff that wants to succeed is the key. Do they want to get out and recruit hard, or just go after average to below average kids so they have numbers? Are they willing to cut loose some kids who just get in the way, and at the same time get the support of administration when those kids/parents call and email ripping the coach apart? Its going to be a joint effort at Chatham, hopefully everyone's on board. St. Kate's is a good story, they are now 5-1 on the season.
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Re: Chatham University — The Steps to Improvement
Originally posted by THE Icemom View PostHaving had a daughter who played and graduated from Chatham, I think consistancy is necessary.
I think those who use the excuse that "it's an all girls school" need to look at the turn around that has happened at St Catherines. They too are an all girls school and are currently 4-0. Big difference, Brad Marshall is starting his sixth season as the coach. Chatham is on their third coach in 5 years.
Say what you will but they were on the right track. Had they stuck with it things would be continuing to move forward. You add Campbell, McNaughton, Keuchle, Frank, Rattle and the recruits who were coming to Chatham that ended up going to other schools to the roster that is there now (plus getting Jenna Cosham healthy...when she finally plays for Chatham this year she'll be one of their top 2 forwards) and you have a team that I guarantee you is at 10 wins or more instead of the 5 they have had the last 2 years. That is progress.
Now they may some day move forward again, and we all hope that they do sooner rather than later, but in the short term they have set the program back to about where it was when Manchester took over. For Evans' sake I'm sure he hopes they give him more of a chance.Last edited by WIrinkrat; 11-22-2010, 10:11 PM.
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Re: Chatham University — The Steps to Improvement
Originally posted by 123kidd View PostRetention in a staff that wants to succeed is the key. Do they want to get out and recruit hard, or just go after average to below average kids so they have numbers? Are they willing to cut loose some kids who just get in the way, and at the same time get the support of administration when those kids/parents call and email ripping the coach apart? Its going to be a joint effort at Chatham, hopefully everyone's on board. St. Kate's is a good story, they are now 5-1 on the season.
As you mentioned in the 2nd part of the post...it's the administration standing by the staff that has to happen. When you build a program kids get left behind or are unhappy with their role. Whereas with established teams most kids come in young and work their way up to more playing time as they get older, the reverse happens in these rebuilding programs. Kids come in and play more right away than they do as the team gets better as seasons go by....on one hand they want to be on a better team, but on the other hand...not if it means less ice time for them. Some players handle it maturely, some don't. Some parents handle it maturely, some don't. Some stick with it, some quit. Some will run their mouth to anyone and everyone who will listen and stretch and shape the truth to fit their needs.
When coaches don't have the support of their administration...and that goes beyond just the AD and on to the higher ups it is a huge struggle to be successful no matter what the coaches say or do for the 2 or 3 years they are allowed to do their jobs before they find someone else to do it.
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Re: Chatham University — The Steps to Improvement
Originally posted by WIrinkrat View PostWhen coaches don't have the support of their administration...and that goes beyond just the AD and on to the higher ups it is a huge struggle to be successful no matter what the coaches say or do for the 2 or 3 years they are allowed to do their jobs before they find someone else to do it.
I wish the Chatham team much luck and success but I can't see that happening if they don't get enough support from the Admin."If you're satisfied with being good, you'll never be great"
"heck, you go to some D-III hockey games and a Steven Segal Chinese stick fight breaks out,....." by Camman15
2009-2010 Regular Season Atlantic Hockey Pick-em Champion
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Re: Chatham University � The Steps to Improvement
First, let me say that everyone here has valid points and I agree completely. The reality is that this school is in Pittsburgh and not Minnesota. That the Chatham administration has historically allowed the inmates (players) to run the asylum. I hope that has changed but the fact is that Manchester was DOING HER JOB and the children didn't like it. Discipline sucks when you think you (former goalie) are bigger than the team. She recruited good players who were better than the ones she had and was building a program successfully.
Another obstacle that Chatham faces is scheduling. No out of conference teams have interest in playing this team. Too far, too costly, not competitive. So unless, for the time being, someone needs a cupcake win.....I see a very short schedule for this team. I am not trying to be harsh, just realistic.
Finally, what happened to hiring a coach with experience in womens college hockey who has built recruiting relationships and has an eye for talent? Why did he have to leave his club men's program....was there smoke? I wish the girls luck and admire their stick to it attitude. But they are just one injured goalie away from imploding.
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Re: Chatham University � The Steps to Improvement
Originally posted by LoneStar View PostFinally, what happened to hiring a coach with experience in womens college hockey who has built recruiting relationships and has an eye for talent? Why did he have to leave his club men's program....was there smoke? I wish the girls luck and admire their stick to it attitude. But they are just one injured goalie away from imploding.Last edited by posttopost2; 11-22-2010, 06:20 PM.
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Re: Chatham University � The Steps to Improvement
Originally posted by posttopost2 View PostMaybe he left his old team because he wanted a challange? How come there has to be smoke? Coach of the year for two years when he coached club at RIT - did he HAVE to leave his men's team or are you just saying that?RIT TIGERS
2007-08 AHA Pick'em Champion
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Re: Chatham University � The Steps to Improvement
Originally posted by LoneStar View PostFinally, what happened to hiring a coach with experience in womens college hockey who has built recruiting relationships and has an eye for talent? Why did he have to leave his club men's program....was there smoke?
Utica/Oswego/Buffalo head coaches = a lot of women's experience. UC has been up and down but competitive. Oswego and Buffalo have been bad and under achieved.
Potsdam = not sure if he had any coaching experience before this
Cortland = This one confuses me because Cortland is a strong athletic school in all their sports.
Neumann/Chatham = TBD. But change was needed in both places.
Your theory of needing women's experience doesn't seem to work in the ECAC West.RIT TIGERS
2007-08 AHA Pick'em Champion
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Re: Chatham University � The Steps to Improvement
Originally posted by RIT Fan View PostPlattburgh/Elmira/RIT head coaches = zero experience with women's hockey before taking over. They've done ok.
Utica/Oswego/Buffalo head coaches = a lot of women's experience. UC has been up and down but competitive. Oswego and Buffalo have been bad and under achieved.
Potsdam = not sure if he had any coaching experience before this
Cortland = This one confuses me because Cortland is a strong athletic school in all their sports.
Neumann/Chatham = TBD. But change was needed in both places.
Your theory of needing women's experience doesn't seem to work in the ECAC West.
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Re: Chatham University � The Steps to Improvement
Originally posted by RIT Fan View PostPlattburgh/Elmira/RIT head coaches = zero experience with women's hockey before taking over. They've done ok..
Originally posted by RIT Fan View PostNeumann/Chatham = TBD. But change was needed in both places.
Manchester walked into an awful situation with about 10 players, half of whom could hardly skate, at a school that gave her program no financial support. They have no rink, they have no locker room, they have trouble scheduling games. There is little to no local talent. They had a league that was on the verge of trying to get rid of them because every game was 15-0. Manchester brought in players who could play at this level and won 10 games over 2 seasons. Not a national championship by any means or measure, but after 6 years of winless teams it was something to be proud of. It was progress. They had about half of what they needed to really compete in terms of manpower. They were getting there. They had I believe the 3 leading scorers in the history of the program by the time their sophomore years had ended. In Campbell and McNaughton they had the first players to be recognized by their conference at the end of a season.
If there was change needed it was in the administration who failed to support their coach. That allowed a small group of the "inmates" referenced above to quit the team mid year, intimidate their teammates, and tell grandiose stories of how they were wronged to everyone who would give them an ear... and ultimately drive a good coach and the core of their young team out of town.
10 wins in two years is nothing to most teams. I'm sure if you asked, Manchester would have admitted they could have done more to win a few more games. But I'm willing to bet if you polled the leagues coaches on what they thought of the job she did in the situation she was put in they would tell you flat out that she did a great job and that the administration at Chatham made a huge mistake to let her go the way they did.
That isn't an indictment on Evans and it doesn't mean he can't also do a good job. But it also doesn't mean that the change that needed to be made at Chatham was the one that actually got made. Unfortunately the higher ups are still the higher ups and they will still pull the AD's puppet strings.
Til that changes....it's an uphill battle to say the least.
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