Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

based on history of being as conservative as possible, i just cant see the NCAA moving that many teams around within the 3 seed band - and specifically moving Wisconsin to the green bay regional like that. above all, that would not be fair to the #1 seed (in this case nodak) to create a basic home game for the badgers. The NCAA does a lot of tinkering for attendance and $$ but they have always seemed to keep 'protecting the 1 seeds' as their primary objective.

Even though they came out on top last year in Fort Wayne, Miami may beg to differ on whether or not the NCAA keeps protection of the #1 seed a primary objective. The ticket sales were nearly non-existent for the Fort Wayne region until Michigan was placed there, a placement that certainly surprised some.

[BUPhD]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

That's my hometown and many people I talked to in that hockey mad town were very interested and supportive that the event was coming. Then they saw the ticket prices and said, well I'm glad they're here and hope they come back, but I can't afford that.

[Priceless]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

based on history of being as conservative as possible, i just cant see the NCAA moving that many teams around within the 3 seed band - and specifically moving Wisconsin to the green bay regional like that. above all, that would not be fair to the #1 seed (in this case nodak) to create a basic home game for the badgers. The NCAA does a lot of tinkering for attendance and $$ but they have always seemed to keep 'protecting the 1 seeds' as their primary objective.

of course if you run the bracketology as of 1/14, i have Denver as the #2 seed for GB and thus Wisconsin couldnt be moved there.

Talk to the folks at Cornell about protecting a #1 seed.

With the attendance black hole shaping up for St. Louis, I think the committee will look to the other regions to sell tickets - even if that means bracket integrity gets shaken up a bit.

Edit: Speaking of Cornell, we have Yale's Kryptonite right now: 3 WCHA #1 seeds and a WCHA #4 seed. That almost guarantees a Yale-Nebraska-Omaha first round. That's about the only chance Yale has of not playing the AHA Champ in Bridgeport (short of inexplicably losing the #1 overall seed).

[Happy]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

based on history of being as conservative as possible, i just cant see the NCAA moving that many teams around within the 3 seed band - and specifically moving Wisconsin to the green bay regional like that. above all, that would not be fair to the #1 seed (in this case nodak) to create a basic home game for the badgers. The NCAA does a lot of tinkering for attendance and $$ but they have always seemed to keep 'protecting the 1 seeds' as their primary objective.

of course if you run the bracketology as of 1/14, i have Denver as the #2 seed for GB and thus Wisconsin couldnt be moved there.

Bull. They have never ever tried to protect Minnesota, or any western team with the number one seed. In fact, the head of the ncaa selection committee once said it was "too delicious" not to make Minnesota play against a more or less home lower seed that should never have been in the bracket. it sells tickets, and all the ncaa really cares about is money.

[Priceless]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

This weekend's PWR:

1 Yale (EC) 24
2 North Dakota (WC) 22
3 Denver U (WC) 22
4 Minn-Duluth (WC) 20
5 Boston Coll (HE) 19
6 Michigan (CC) 18
7 Notre Dame (CC) 17
8 Wisconsin (WC) 17
9 New Hampshire (HE) 16
10 Maine (HE) 14
11 Dartmouth (EC) 14
12 Union (EC) 12
13 Boston Univ (HE) 12
14 Merrimack (HE) 11
15 NE-Omaha (WC) 11
---
16 Western Mich (CC) 10
17 RPI (EC) 9
18 Miami (CC) 9
19 AK-Fairbanks (CC) 7
20 Princeton (EC) 5
21 Minnesota (WC) 4
22 Bemidji State (WC) 4
23 CO College (WC) 2
24 MSU-Mankato (WC) 1
25 Ohio State (CC) 0

Last team in: Nebraska-Omaha
Last team out: Western Michigan

A cursory look gives us:

Bridgeport	        Manchester	St Louis	Green Bay
Yale			Minn-Duluth	Denver		North Dakota
Wisconsin 		BC		Michigan	Notre Dame
UNH			Union		Dartmouth	Maine
AHA Champ		BU		Merrimack	Neb-Omaha

First off, New Hampshire is a host so they must be placed in the Manchester regional. That means Boston College cannot be placed there as a #2 seed. We also have an intra-conference first-round game featuring North Dakota and Nebraska-Omaha. Although both Hockey East and the WCHA have five teams in the field, so the committee could keep them paired, the NCAA is loathe to do so. This causes the brackets to break apart.

Bridgeport		Manchester		St Louis	Green Bay
Yale			Minn-Duluth		Denver		North Dakota
BC			Notre Dame		Michigan	Wisconsin
Union			UNH			Dartmouth	Maine
Neb-Omaha		BU			Merrimack	AHA Champ

The committee makes Green Bay strong for attendance purposes with both NoDak and Wisconsin. Manchester has UNH and BU and Bridgeport has 2 ECAC teams and Boston College. Hopefully a few Michigan fans live in the greater St. Louis area...

The most contentious move would doubtless be the AHA Champion to the Green Bay region, forcing overall #1 Yale to play UNO instead. However, the other 3 #1 seeds are from the WCHA so the committee has to choose between an intra-conference game and protecting the #1 overall seed. History says they will choose to ship the AHA Champ elsewhere.

[BUPhD]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

Yale gets no respect! :snicker:

[Farce Poobah]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

The committee makes Green Bay strong for attendance purposes with both NoDak and Wisconsin. Manchester has UNH and BU and Bridgeport has 2 ECAC teams and Boston College. Hopefully a few Michigan fans live in the greater St. Louis area...

The most contentious move would doubtless be the AHA Champion to the Green Bay region, forcing overall #1 Yale to play UNO instead. However, the other 3 #1 seeds are from the WCHA so the committee has to choose between an intra-conference game and protecting the #1 overall seed. History says they will choose to ship the AHA Champ elsewhere.

Thanks for doing.

I would send North Dakota to St Louis, improving attendance and competitive balance. It would improve attendance (no need for more than Wisconsin to fill Green Bay) because UND travels well. It would also improve competitive balance in that a higher seed gets the more favorable draw...

[SteveF]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

Bull. They have never ever tried to protect Minnesota, or any western team with the number one seed. In fact, the head of the ncaa selection committee once said it was "too delicious" not to make Minnesota play against a more or less home lower seed that should never have been in the bracket. it sells tickets, and all the ncaa really cares about is money.

well i would have to know what years you are talking about specifically. but a) in my opinion the protecting the top seeds has become more prevalant over the years and b) i dont have much love lost for minnesota ncaa matchups as they generally play their regionals on home ice. you cant get much more favorable than that.

Even though they came out on top last year in Fort Wayne, Miami may beg to differ on whether or not the NCAA keeps protection of the #1 seed a primary objective. The ticket sales were nearly non-existent for the Fort Wayne region until Michigan was placed there, a placement that certainly surprised some.

a fair point. i thought that was an odd pairing considering the teams had just played in the ccha tournament and that used to be a consideration as well.

[Priceless]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

Thanks for doing.

I would send North Dakota to St Louis, improving attendance and competitive balance. It would improve attendance (no need for more than Wisconsin to fill Green Bay) because UND travels well. It would also improve competitive balance in that a higher seed gets the more favorable draw...

The NCAA doesn't consider the "draw" beyond the first round. A couple of upsets and what was considered a favorable draw gets turned on its head. The type of draw is for we the fans to discuss; I don't think the committee looks at it beyond a sometimes laughable attempt at bracket integrity.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

I have a problem with how the NCAA tries to protect the integrity of the field AND create a more championship like atmosphere at the same time. I'm in the minority probably but I don't think both variables should be considered. Either go with a strict 1-16 seeding (allowing still for movement withing the bands to avoid conference re-matches) and let the chips fall where they may when it comes to atmosphere and ticket sales OR try to create the best environment possible by putting teams as best as the field allows in the regions they are closest to, allowing for easier travel for as many fans as possible. Like I said, I think I share this view with few fans and it will never happen, regions of death and all that.

[Priceless]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

The NCAA Committee has changed the PairWise Rankings. TUCs will go back to being any team with an RPI above .5000 (like it was pre-2006). That changes things considerably. Most notably, Maine is out and Western Michigan is in.

The new PWR

1 Yale (EC) 33
2 North Dakota (WC) 31
3 Minn-Duluth (WC) 31
4 Denver U (WC) 30
5 Michigan (CC) 29
6 New Hampshire (HE) 27
7 Boston Coll (HE) 26
8 Notre Dame (CC) 26
9 Wisconsin (WC) 24
10 Dartmouth (EC) 23
11 Western Mich (CC) 22
12 Union (EC) 21
13 Merrimack (HE) 20
14 Boston Univ (HE) 19
15 NE-Omaha (WC) 19
---
16 Maine (HE) 18
17 RPI (EC) 18
18 Miami (CC) 18
19 AK-Fairbanks (CC) 15
20 Princeton (EC) 14
21 CO College (WC) 13
22 Bemidji State (WC) 12
23 Minnesota (WC) 11
24 Ohio State (CC) 10
25 Ferris State (CC) 10
26 MSU-Mankato (WC) 8
27 AK-Anchorage (WC) 7
28 Brown (EC) 7
29 Clarkson (EC) 5
30 Robert Morris (AH) 4
31 Northern Mich (CC) 4
32 Quinnipiac (EC) 3
33 Mich State (CC) 2
34 St Cloud (WC) 1

That gives us

Bridgeport		Manchester		St Louis	Green Bay
Yale			Denver			Minn-Duluth	North Dakota
Notre Dame		Michigan		UNH		BC
Wisconsin		Union			W Michigan	Dartmouth
AHA Champ		Merrimack		BU		Neb-Omaha

We have to move UNH since the Wildcats are hosting and the brackets get very ugly because we have to avoid first round conference pairings. My best guess:

Bridgeport		Manchester		St Louis		Green Bay
Yale			Denver			North Dakota		Minn-Duluth
BC			UNH			Michigan		Notre Dame
Dartmouth		W Michigan		Union    	        Wisconsin
Neb-Omaha		Merrimack		AHA Champ		BU

I put Duluth in Green Bay because they are the only #1 seed who can drive to Green Bay. North Dakota and Denver are flying no matter what.

I don't know what the impetus for the change was, but we have to deal with it.

[Priceless]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

Merrimack defeated Boston University tonight in the rescheduled game from last week.

1 Yale (EC) 33
2 North Dakota (WC) 31
3 Minn-Duluth (WC) 31
4 Denver U (WC) 30
5 Michigan (CC) 29
6 New Hampshire (HE) 27
7 Boston Coll (HE) 26
8 Notre Dame (CC) 26
9 Wisconsin (WC) 24
10 Merrimack (HE) 23
11 Western Mich (CC) 23
12 Dartmouth (EC) 22
13 Union (EC) 21
14 NE-Omaha (WC) 20
15 RPI (EC) 19
---
16 Miami (CC) 18
17 Maine (HE) 17
18 Boston Univ (HE) 15
19 AK-Fairbanks (CC) 15
20 Princeton (EC) 14
21 CO College (WC) 13
22 Bemidji State (WC) 12
23 Minnesota (WC) 11
24 Ohio State (CC) 10
25 Ferris State (CC) 10
26 MSU-Mankato (WC) 8
27 AK-Anchorage (WC) 7
28 Brown (EC) 7
29 Clarkson (EC) 5
30 Robert Morris (AH) 4
31 Northern Mich (CC) 4
32 Quinnipiac (EC) 3
33 Mich State (CC) 2
34 St Cloud (WC) 1

The new bracket

Bridgeport		Manchester		St Louis		Green Bay
Yale			Denver			North Dakota		Minn-Duluth
BC			UNH			Michigan		Notre Dame
Dartmouth		W Michigan		Merrimack		Wisconsin
Neb-Omaha		Union			AHA Champ		RPI

Conference breakdown:

WCHA	5
ECAC	4
HEA	3
CCHA	3
AHA	1

I have sent a note to the NCAA asking why the change to the PairWise, but it might get a response if someone with press credentials posed the question.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

Given the new PWR, that will give the WCHA an advantage so long as their top teams win games. Right now, 11 of the 12 teams in the WCHA are TUC.

My guess the reasoning MAY be that a lot of teams in the past were not able to put up 10 games against TUC, which nullified that point of the comparison. If you increase the field of TUC, it would reasonably mean that point of the comparison would come back in play more often making the PWR more effective.

[komey1]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

Wouldn't it be a disadvantage as the WCHA teams would beat each other up and kill that comparison for them?

[UnionHockeyManiac]

Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

I like this thread when Union is playing well and in the top 16