Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: Congrats to Meghan Duggan!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

    Is Stack a sure thing? If I was voting, I'd have a hard time putting two BC players w/o anyone from BU. Stack's numbers are very similar to Wakefield, and they aren't as good as Poulin, plus she's behind others like Scanzano and the Lams. I'm not even sure that Bendus is a lock for the top 10, because Decker is ahead of her in PPG leaders. No, I'm not saying that Decker gets a spot, but the lower one drifts in the charts, the harder look one is likely to take in terms of an analysis. Neither Stack nor Bendus is the most recognizable player on their team, so I'd think that they will suffer in that regard. Both UND and BC players get a boost in that their teams weren't very good a year ago without them. In the case of BC, most would say that is more Schaus than Stack if asked to choose, while that is harder to decipher in the case of the Lams.
    "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

    Comment


    • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

      I think both Stack and Schaus will make it because although BC would probably still be a good team, I really don't think they would be in the top 10 without those two. Granted this can be said for a lot of players on different teams, if you look at BC's results, you'll notice that Stack has had the GT or GW goal in many games and especially as of late, BC's offensive has been stagnant but have still been able to win because Schaus only lets up a goal at most each game.

      Comment


      • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

        Originally posted by ARM View Post
        Is Stack a sure thing? If I was voting, I'd have a hard time putting two BC players w/o anyone from BU.
        No, she's not. Perhaps I should go back to my previous format for clarity:

        Locks:
        F Duggan, Knight, Agosta
        D Fortino
        G Raty, Schaus

        Bubble (just in):
        F Stack, JLam, Bendus
        D Larocque

        Bubble (just out):
        F Wakefield, Philip-Poulin, MLam-Kolls

        Not even nominated!
        G Martin, Lacasse

        Stack's numbers are very similar to Wakefield, and they aren't as good as Poulin, plus she's behind others like Scanzano and the Lams.
        Well to the extent that clutch play is a factor, it favors Stack. Now part of this is simply far-and-away the No. 1 scoring threat on her team with little other help. So Stack is simply going to be involved on a larger share of those goals.

        I think Philip-Poulin will have a tough time simply because she's played in less than 75% of BU's games this year. I thought she & Wakefield would both make the cut initially but I feel they both faded a bit down the stretch.

        In the BU-BC, games here's a summary of the contributions
        6-3 BC: Stack hat trick, 3 point effort for Philip-Poulin AFTER BU was already down 5-0
        1-0 BU: Wakefield with the only goal
        4-0 BU: Wakefield 2g2a, Philip-Poulin 1g2a (after this game I thought they'd both make the Kaz 10 and neither BC player would)
        2-1 BC (Beanpot): Stack 1g1a, nothing for Wakefield, Philip-Poulin didn't play

        So you could both Stack & Wakefield had first star performances among forwards in those games. I give a litle more weight to the Beanpot.

        Stack is a +25 on a team that's +32 overall. Wakefield +23 and Philip-Poulin +24 on a team that's +43 overall.

        Within Hockey East, Stack was 22-11-33 in 21 games, Wakefield 17-10-27 in 17 games, Philip-Poulin only played 13 Hockey East games. To the extent support comes from within the conference that'll be an impact.

        Stack is a senior team tri-captain with Schaus. Wakefield and Philip-Poulin are both in their first years with BU.

        Stack and Wakefield have both mode all-academic in the past so no real difference there.

        It's a little closer between Stack and Wakefield than I had expected, and part of the reason is Stack has been better recently, and maybe I'm not giving Wakefield enough credit for earlier in the season.

        I'm not even sure that Bendus is a lock for the top 10, because Decker is ahead of her in PPG leaders. No, I'm not saying that Decker gets a spot, but the lower one drifts in the charts, the harder look one is likely to take in terms of an analysis.
        Right, and I mentioned the same issue in terms of Scanzano passing her in overall scoring. Also 5 Mercyhurst players on the ballot doesn't help her either. I still think she deserves Kaz 10 status, but yes it may be that she gets cut before the Lams.

        In the case of BC, most would say that is more Schaus than Stack if asked to choose, while that is harder to decipher in the case of the Lams.
        I agree, Schaus has stronger recognition between 1 of 2 national team goalies, while Stack is one of many forwards. I think on a day-to-day basis, Stack had more standout games, while a couple bad outings for Schaus stood out more. Schaus did have a few strong performances more recently, like the Beanpot final.

        Comment


        • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

          Originally posted by Bumbles View Post
          My top 10:
          ...
          Rebecca Johnston F Jr. Cornell Univ. Sudbury, Ont.
          So this is the one big difference between your post and everything I've written, and a few Cornell fans have pitched for Johnston as well. You left off Bendus.

          I can agree she's one of the top 10 players in the country. I thought she was the most dominant player at the 4 Nations Cup. Was she one of the 10 best in college games this season? I don't think so.

          Can you point to one game against a top opponent where Johnston had a big point? I haven't found one. You can complain that I put too much emphasis on stats, but all the other candidates have something I can point to on paper. Johnston missed the first Harvard-Dartmouth weekend for Four Nations, the top two other teams in her conference. This past weekend? 0-0-0.

          I just know head-to-head with Bendus in that first game at Cornell, Bendus had three assists and was +3. Johnston had 1 assist and no goals, and was -1 between in the two games with Mercyhurst.

          As great as Johnston is, I think you have to score more than one point in your team's six toughest games of the season to make the Kaz 10.
          Last edited by dave1381; 02-21-2011, 06:15 PM.

          Comment


          • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

            Originally posted by mattj711 View Post
            Why does that not shock me?
            I happen to be with granddaddyscout, Matt. But more as to aren't there players on other teams who are being neglected/passed by, in order to honor-the what I call, many, on the better known (more winning) teams? Doesn't one benefit by playing on a winner? Benefit as to more scoring opportunities, better defense, goal, etc., etc., that results in player "A" at Cornell (in 2011) finding the slope to her liking and thus amassing kudos whereas player "B" at Union (in 2011) finds the same hill of recognition so steep as to be unclimbable? Aren't there players on 'loser' teams that have performed so far above their mates,say, that they too need to be recognized. Rather than lumping in many from the one (team)? There are. I think, say, of Quinnipiac's, Babstock. Sure, as I write this I expect I will be reminded that this situation exactly as I describe it has been mulled over ad infinitum; coaches choose I will be told; etc. Limits can be placed on number of players from one team. That is a hugely uncreative solution. BUT A CREATIVE SOLUTION is out there.

            It needs to be addressed.

            Comment


            • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

              Originally posted by myStuff View Post
              My picks

              Meghan Agosta F Sr. Mercyhurst College Ruthven, Ont.
              Jenni Bauer G Sr. Niagara Univ. St. Catherines, Ont.
              Vicki Bendus F Sr. Mercyhurst College Wasaga Beach, Ont.
              Bailey Bram F Jr. Mercyhurst College Ste. Ann, Man.
              Meghan Duggan F Sr. Univ. of Wisconsin Danvers, Mass.
              Laura Fortino D So. Cornell Univ. Hamilton, Ont.
              Hilary Knight F Jr. Univ. of Wisconsin Sun Valley, Idaho
              Noora Raty G So. Univ. of Minnesota Espoo, Finland
              Jesse Scanzano F Sr. Mercyhurst College Montreal, Que.
              Jenn Wakefield F Jr. Boston Univ. Pickering, Ont.
              Four Hurst players and no RJ......Don't think so.
              Bauer over Schaus...While the former has a great hockey name, can't see that happening.

              Comment


              • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

                oh Sara, how I long for thee...
                (where the heart beats)

                bleep.

                Comment


                • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

                  Originally posted by OnMAA View Post
                  Four Hurst players and no RJ......Don't think so.
                  Bauer over Schaus...While the former has a great hockey name, can't see that happening.
                  Just pics..don't take it personal.
                  If I had the goalie pic of my choice it would be Mandy Mazz without a doubt but she's injured and not playing as of yet for Cornell.
                  She epitomizes every aspect of what the PK award stands for.
                  In a word....Brilliant!

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

                    Originally posted by papulaisle View Post
                    That is a hugely uncreative solution. BUT A CREATIVE SOLUTION is out there. It needs to be addressed.
                    Is the impetus behind your post that Cornell had 4 nominees and Dartmouth had zero?

                    I think all 4 Cornell nominees are quite deserving. Regarding your player complementarity hypothesis, White and Johnston have been the top scorers on past Cornell teams. Jenner is the top scorer on this team.

                    Look at the ECAC leading scorers:
                    1 Brianne Jenner Cornell FR F 20 1.55 15-16-31
                    2 Chelsea Karpenko Cornell JR F 20 1.50 11-19-30
                    Kelly Babstock Quinnipiac FR F 22 1.36 22- 8-30
                    4 Rebecca Johnston Cornell JR F 20 1.45 17-12-29
                    5 Catherine White Cornell JR F 20 1.40 14-14-28
                    Laura Fortino Cornell SO D 20 1.40 7-21-28
                    That list is actually quite remarkable. Can you think of any team that achieved such success while maintaining such balance?? The closest I can think of is... wait for it... 2001 Dartmouth! If the same Kaz nomination process were in place in 2001, I suspect that Dartmouth team would've gotten a lot of nominees too (but back then it was limited to 2 per team, and the nominee list was not made public)

                    Comment


                    • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

                      Originally posted by myStuff View Post
                      Just pics..don't take it personal.
                      If I had the goalie pic of my choice it would be Mandy Mazz without a doubt but she's injured and not playing as of yet for Cornell.
                      She epitomizes every aspect of what the PK award stands for.
                      In a word....Brilliant!
                      Not too worry, nothing Personal. My comments were partly TIC, but got the message accross.

                      Overall this is a great discussion. Shows the abundance of talent spread around the many teams.
                      Last edited by OnMAA; 02-22-2011, 09:16 AM. Reason: spelling

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

                        Originally posted by RStarr View Post
                        oh Sara, how I long for thee...
                        Sara Who ? P? or V? or possibly another one ?.

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

                          Originally posted by OnMAA View Post
                          Sara Who ? P? or V? or possibly another one ?.
                          You referred to Bauer being a great hockey name?

                          It's Sara Bauer, 2006 Kazmaier winner and 2007 Frozen Four MVP, and Wisconsin's all-time scoring leader until just recently.

                          Comment


                          • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

                            Originally posted by papulaisle View Post
                            Aren't there players on 'loser' teams that have performed so far above their mates,say, that they too need to be recognized.
                            This is a very good point, although "less successful" may be a better word choice than "loser". That is why I think the process that favors some conferences over others in the nomination process is unfortunate. In the past, at least players that didn't make the top ten because their team was overshadowed could get a nomination. Because every team she faces is focused on stopping her, a player like Natalie Spooner can't put up the numbers needed to be a Finalist, but she at least deserved a nomination.
                            "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
                            And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

                            Comment


                            • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

                              Originally posted by dave1381 View Post
                              Is the impetus behind your post that Cornell had 4 nominees and Dartmouth had zero?

                              I think all 4 Cornell nominees are quite deserving. Regarding your player complementarity hypothesis, White and Johnston have been the top scorers on past Cornell teams. Jenner is the top scorer on this team.

                              Look at the ECAC leading scorers:

                              That list is actually quite remarkable. Can you think of any team that achieved such success while maintaining such balance?? The closest I can think of is... wait for it... 2001 Dartmouth! If the same Kaz nomination process were in place in 2001, I suspect that Dartmouth team would've gotten a lot of nominees too (but back then it was limited to 2 per team, and the nominee list was not made public)

                              Here are the top 11 scorers in the WCHA as a comparison;

                              Point Scoring GP PPG G-A-P
                              1 Meghan Duggan Wisconsin SR F 34 2.15 32-41-73
                              2 Hilary Knight Wisconsin JR F 34 2.03 42-27-69
                              3 Brianna Decker Wisconsin SO F 34 1.91 28-37-65
                              4 Jocelyne Lamoureux North Dakota SO F 29 1.86 26-28-54
                              5 Monique Lamoureux-Koll North Dakota SO F/D 29 1.79 21-31-52
                              6 Elin Holmlov Minnesota Duluth SR F 30 1.53 16-30-46
                              7 Laura McIntosh Ohio State JR F 31 1.45 12-33-45
                              8 Haley Irwin Minnesota Duluth JR F 21 2.00 18-24-42
                              Amanda Kessel Minnesota FR F 30 1.40 15-27-42
                              10 Brooke Ammerman Wisconsin JR F 32 1.25 15-25-40
                              11 Natalie Spooner Ohio State JR F 27 1.44 26-13-39

                              Pretty impressive numbers against much tougher competition than the ECAC has to offer. I would argue that Spooner, Ammerman, Irwin, etc are pretty deserving as well and as a Freshman Kessel made a pretty good case as compared to the 3 freshmen nominated. I don't think any are top ten necessarily; it is just puzzling that there seems to be a different standard for the West. All is moot as I believe it comes down to Agosta or Duggan.

                              Comment


                              • Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

                                Agreed. I believe it also comes down to their situation. Duggan is the leading scorer in what is viewed as the best women's league in the world. She faced more top ten teams this year than Agosta, and faced some of the best female goalies around. Adding to that, Duggan is known to be a fantastic hockey player. That is obvious. It is her qualities off the ice that we seem to hear about more. Her leadership qualities and skills displayed at Wisco and with USA are legendary and she is only 23(?). She is as great off the ice as she is on, and that is a rare quality in any athlete. Agosta is an unreal talent and a great person, however I just don't think there are many athletes out there who are such a complete package like Duggan. Just my thoughts....and I'm Canadian.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X