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View Full Version : 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: Congrats to Meghan Duggan!



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RStarr
02-26-2011, 11:28 AM
Agosta's +/- is a very good +33....However Duggan's numbers are even better. She is a +61....
I would hope that Duggan's numbers are higher. She plays on a stronger team than Agosta. If we are taking strength of schedule into consideration, then we need to take other abstract numbers, like strength of team, into consideration as well.

Agosta is an outstanding player.. in games that don't necessarily mean much.
What an ignorant statement. Every game counts. Especially when your conference doesn't have an autobid. Furthermore, as you elude, its a team sport. Duggan doesn't win every game for Wisconsin, so Agoasta isn't going to win every game for Mercyhurst. I've seen both flop when it counts the most.

dave1381
02-26-2011, 08:04 PM
I would hope that Duggan's numbers are higher. She plays on a stronger team than Agosta. If we are taking strength of schedule into consideration, then we need to take other abstract numbers, like strength of team, into consideration as well.
You really think that helps Agosta's case? Her team was No. 1 all last season without her. Wisconsin didn't make out of their conference quarterfinals. Granted Wisconsin also got another Olympian and a coach back, but it's hardly a slam dunk in Agosta's favor. We're still talking about the top two teams in the league offensively.

It's tough to separate out an individual from team, but team success is a criteria for the award. Usually Kaz winners do come from the top few teams, of which Mercyhurst is just outside, but they were hardly incapable of achieving that this regular season.

Kaz winners typically come from a top player from one of the top 2 or 3 teams
98 UNH, national champion
99 Harvard, national champion
00 Brown, ECAC winner, No. 1 seed, national runner up
01 Harvard, No. 3 team, ECAC runner-up, NCAA third place
02 Northeastern, an exception, but was No. 2 roughly around time of the voting
03 Harvard, No. 1 at time of voting
04 Harvard, NCAA runner-up, ECAC champion, No. 1-3 most of season
05 Minnesota NCAA champion, No. 1 most of the season
06 Wisconsin NCAA champion, No. 1 or 2 most of the season
07 Harvard, probably the least successful team (at time of voting) to feature a Kaz winner
08 Harvard, No. 1 most of the season, ECAC champ, Frozen Four
09 Wisconsin, NCAA champion, No. 1 most of the season
10 Mercyhurst, No.1 most of the season, CHA champ, Frozen Four

So 2007 was probably the only exceptional year in terms of the Kaz not going to a top team. That year Harvard was about No. 6 roughly at time of the voting, and Chu beat out Bauer on the No. 1 team and Agosta on the No. 2 team. That year Chu was the nation's leading scorer and also scored in every game prior to voting (including various devastating losses) and had a +/- that was an order of magnitude above her teammates, and that kind of consistency and two-way play that showed up in the stats was well-known by everyone who saw her play. So that's the kind of resume it took to win the Kaz when you're not on one of the top 3 teams.


What an ignorant statement. Every game counts. Especially when your conference doesn't have an autobid. Furthermore, as you elude, its a team sport. Duggan doesn't win every game for Wisconsin, so Agoasta isn't going to win every game for Mercyhurst. I've seen both flop when it counts the most.

So have I. But has Duggan flopped when it counts the most more often THIS SEASON than Agosta?


Again, all you guys are doing is down playin one player's success while overstating anos Duggan does do well are clearly way more important and significant .ther., Things that Duggan doesn't do well aren't as important as things Agosta doesn't do well. And thing
You make it sound like people supporting Duggan are ex-post rationalizing their support of Duggan. That's certainly not how I feel. If you look back at this thread, you'll see several times I've posted things to the effect of, "Agosta and Bendus have a bit smaller margin of error than the other candidates because they only get 3 games against top teams. They really need a standout performance in these games to have a shot."

dave1381
02-26-2011, 08:12 PM
It's also worth nothing this is the first year ever Kaz voting will take place after the conference tournaments. That creates some interesting dynamics. If a Kaz frontrunner were to have a bad weekend, it could open the door a bit. Usually they don't though. Probably 2002 & 2007 are the only years where I imagine the outcome might have been different in the voting was this late (I also withhold judgment on 1998, I'm just not familiar with that season)

dave1381
02-27-2011, 09:45 PM
Not crazy at all -- I actually completely agree with you that PIMs should be considered. They're certainly a negative impact on team success. I don't think 11-19 penalties for the season is anything to be alarmed about, but JLam has 44 Pen, 96 PIM -- just way more than any of the other candidates. MLam-Kolls with 23 Pen, 46 PIM is also up there.
Yeah.

edit: Well, that's one way to win a game, take a penalty in OT, then score the game-winner.

granddaddyscout
02-27-2011, 10:37 PM
[QUOTE=dave1381;5053635]It's also worth nothing this is the first year ever Kaz voting will take place after the conference tournaments. That creates some interesting dynamics. If a Kaz frontrunner were to have a bad weekend, it could open the door a bit.

Well Duggan doesn't seem to have bad weekends, that is one of her greatest qualities. I am frankly starting to think it is a lock, it should be.

dave1381
02-27-2011, 11:26 PM
Well Duggan doesn't seem to have bad weekends, that is one of her greatest qualities. I am frankly starting to think it is a lock, it should be.
I agree there's little to suggest Duggan will have a bad weekend. That is after all how you become the Kaz frontrunner. Under the old voting schedule, I agree Duggan would've had this locked up weeks ago. But next weekend does create an interesting dynamic.

It'll definitely be the toughest schedule a Kaz frontrunner has ever had to face leading up to the voting -- one team is battling for an NCAA bid, while the final opponent will possibly be battling for NCAA home ice, while Wisconsin has less to play for (though a WCHA title is of course still a goal). So it'll be interesting. But I don't think Duggan could've done much more at this point to put herself in position to win the award.

True North 3
02-28-2011, 10:11 AM
It's been great to see Duggan really come into the spotlight this year. She was always acknowledged as a standout player, but that was it. It seemed like she was known more for being Lawler's best friend. She had a great Olympic tournament but received little attention outside of Danvers and Madison. I think she has handled the attention with class and never looked past what was important; winning games as a team and being a leader. If she's the type of player and person leading USA hockey into the future, they have one big fan north of the border.

dave1381
02-28-2011, 10:13 AM
It's been great to see Duggan really come into the spotlight this year. She was always acknowledged as a standout player, but that was it. It seemed like she was known more for being Lawler's best friend. She had a great Olympic tournament but received little attention outside of Danvers and Madison. I think she has handled the attention with class and never looked past what was important; winning games as a team and being a leader. If she's the type of player and person leading USA hockey into the future, they have one big fan north of the border.
I agree. I would've never imagined in 06-07 that Duggan would be eclipsing Agosta as the frontrunner for this award. I mean that even would imply that Duggan made the 2010 Olympic Team which was not a given then.

ARM
02-28-2011, 10:47 AM
I would've never imagined in 06-07 that Duggan would be eclipsing Agosta as the frontrunner for this award.I think that Duggan has always accepted her role, and that hasn't always been the most glamorous one. In 06-07, she was on the top line with Bauer and Zaugg, but her job was to grind in the corners and get the puck to Bauer to feed Zaugg waiting in front. In 08-09, Knight/Lawler/Keseley formed the scoring line, while it seemed Duggan's line would often have the shutdown responsibility. This year it seems that she has gotten to play with Decker more than Knight has and it shows in Duggan's stats. But I'd say Duggan is more of a hockey player than just a pure scorer, so from that standpoint, it would be nice to see her win.

dave1381
02-28-2011, 11:03 AM
Agreed. I gathered Duggan didn't have the glamorous roles prior to this season, but I still wouldn't have expected her to be so dominant in the role she has now.

The Duggan and Decker have complemented each reflects well in the +/- stats: Duggan is +65, Decker +63, and Knight +56. No one else on Wisconsin is close.

It's also worth noting Duggan leads Wisconsin in all power play stats with 11g, 15a, 26 points -- while Knight & Decker have 17 points each. Duggan has those 11 goals on just 36 shots -- an absolutely lethal percentage. And Duggan also leads Wisconsin with 3 shorthanded goals. Just dominant in every phase of the game.

myStuff
02-28-2011, 04:13 PM
Dont take it personal.... but you are a homer !!!!Bauer over Schaus, come on. Let me guess ,your top three will hail from ...ehh?

aaahahahahaa oh whaaaaa!!!
Stats speak for themselves do the math

BoSox3066
03-01-2011, 12:39 PM
But I'd say Duggan is more of a hockey player than just a pure scorer, so from that standpoint, it would be nice to see her win.

That's it isn't it? Someone posted about the things Agosta doesn't do well getting more attention than the things Duggan doesn't do well. But what doesn't Duggan do well? I can't think of anything. She's the most complete player in the game.

IceIsNice
03-01-2011, 09:25 PM
But what doesn't Duggan do well? I can't think of anything.



4-12-1 in games I've attended since.

You may be right, but based on your record, I sure hope you'll be rooting for Wisco over the next couple of weeks! :cool:

dave1381
03-03-2011, 10:48 AM
The Kaz 10 have been announced: http://www.usahockey.com/patty_kazmaier/default.aspx?NAV=AF&id=300276&DetailedNews=yes



Meghan Agosta Sr F Mercyhurst College
Vicki Bendus Sr F Mercyhurst College
Meghan Duggan Sr F University of Wisconsin
Laura Fortino So D Cornell University
Haley Irwin Jr F University of Minnesota Duluth
Rebecca Johnston Jr F Cornell University
Hilary Knight Jr F University of Wisconsin
Noora Räty So G University of Minnesota
Molly Schaus Sr G Boston College
Kelli Stack Sr F Boston College


Congrats to all. A few comments to follow.

dave1381
03-03-2011, 11:03 AM
Overall I'm happy with the list. 8 of 10 matched my final predictions.

I got the wrong UMD player in the end. I thought Irwin's injuries down the stretch would limit her candidacy, but she was certainly a force and one of the top 5 or so players early in the season, and she was clearly deserving.

I guess with the Lams it was probably going to be all or none of them in the final 10, and I don't think there was enough room for both.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think Johnston is a top 10 talent but was not one of the top 10 players in women's college hockey this season. But I should have predicted that she'd get good support. Within her conference, she was certainly going to get support. Outside of the conference, she clearly got good support too. She did make the 10 already two years ago. I suspect the Four Nations Cup also helped. Interesting that Babstock won ECAC Player of the Year but didn't make it here. It could be a result of Johnston's prior reputation or other criteria.

In the big picture, WCHA gets 4 finalists while the other conferences get 2. This was the most dominant WCHA ever so I thought perhaps the league would match its all-time high with 5 of the 10, but with all coaches voting, selection does tend more towards conference parity.

dave1381
03-03-2011, 11:39 AM
What are posters' thoughts on the top 3? The vast majority of posters are supporting Duggan as winner, but what about the rest? I suspect Knight and Agosta are the favorites for the other two spots, but is there a case to be made for Raty (or anyone else)? If so who would you drop?

froshgramp'10
03-03-2011, 11:56 AM
If value to her team carries much weight, Raty should be there in the final three, but I have no idea how she fares in the other areas that are taken into consideration.

Trillium
03-03-2011, 05:24 PM
As I said earlier in the thread, I think Johnston is a top 10 talent but was not one of the top 10 players in women's college hockey this season. But I should have predicted that she'd get good support. Within her conference, she was certainly going to get support. Outside of the conference, she clearly got good support too. She did make the 10 already two years ago. I suspect the Four Nations Cup also helped. Interesting that Babstock won ECAC Player of the Year but didn't make it here. It could be a result of Johnston's prior reputation or other criteria.

I too am kind of surprised Babstock didn't make the list, since she beat out both Johnston and Fortino for ECAC player of the year, and I believe was one of the top scorers in D1. I do agree with you that Johnston is a potential top 10 talent, but certainly don't think she had a top 10 year either. Too many times for significant stretches she will take shifts/periods off and actually look very ordinary....but then all of a sudden decide to play and break a game open.

You expressed surprise earlier when Babstock won ECAC player of the year. I suspect that is what hurt her with the voters outside her league. As a freshman without national team experience, she is still an unknown entity elsewhere. No one appreciates her talent....yet.

Nevertheless, it's hard to argue with the other candidates who did make the list.

ARM
03-03-2011, 05:42 PM
I too am kind of surprised Babstock didn't make the list, since she beat out both Johnston and Fortino for ECAC player of the year, and I believe was one of the top scorers in D1.The surprise isn't that Babstock didn't make the list, it is that Johnston did. As a frosh, a player needs either to have a huge reputation coming in, usually by performing in international competition, or put up mega numbers such that the voters can't ignore her, to make the Kaz Top 10. Babstock numbers, while strong, don't place her in the top 10 in PPG. They aren't as high as players like Wakefield and the Lams who are better known and didn't make it either. The ECAC awards are based on league play, while the Kaz is based on the season as a whole, so it doesn't necessarily follow that the voting for the two would play out the same.

dave1381
03-03-2011, 10:41 PM
Interesting take on reality.... http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=6178652


COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- Mercyhurst forward Vicki Bendus is among the 10 finalists for the Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award, given annually to the top player in major women's college hockey.

The senior from Wasaga Beach, Ontario, captured the award in 2010 and attempts to become the first back-to-back winner since the award's inception in 1998. Harvard's Jennifer Botterill won in 2001 and '03.

Bendus has seven goals and 17 assists this season.