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dave1381
02-19-2011, 02:29 PM
The Kazmaier 10 ballot will be released this week, the latest it has ever been.

Here's my latest take on the 10:
Locks:
F Duggan, Knight, Agosta
D Fortino
G Raty, Schaus

Bubble (in):
F Stack, JLam, MLam-Kolls, Bendus

Bubble (out):
F Wakefield
G Martin, Lacasse

A few comments:

-- I hadn't considered Martin as a 10 candidate, but her numbers look better as she's gotten more starts and UMD's schedule has softened. Her GAA is now just a shade below Raty and Schaus, and her save percentage is up to .942, between Raty (.951) and Schaus (.937). Martin just hasn't had as many starts though -- her record is 12-5, while Raty is 22-5-2 and Schaus is 20-4-3. I think Martin will got some votes, but I'm not sure it'll be enough to displace any of the 7 leading forward candidates.

-- I considered Bendus as a lock last time, but not this time. I still think she clearly deserves to be in the top 10 based on her high overall scoring (4th per game), her clutch play against top opponents (a +3 3-assist effort against Cornell while Mercyhurst's other stars were -1), and her academic achievements which I assume are still stellar. So I think last year's winner still deserves top 10 status, despite the flood of Olympians back into the sport this year, and I will be disappointed if Bendus doesn't return to the 10.

Why I am concerned Bendus won't get it? (1) Mercyhurst is in a smaller conference, and when it comes the bubble, coaches are likely to throw votes to their conference (2) Bendus missed a few games, played 4 less than Scanzano and now trails her in total points (not per-game), so that may discourage voters, but it's silly to punish Bendus for Scanzano's resurgence.

But I still think Bendus clearly deserves the honor again, and I thought it was worth a bit of campaigning.

myStuff
02-20-2011, 01:52 PM
About the Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award

"An award of The USA Hockey Foundation, the Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award is presented annually to the top player in NCAA Division I women’s ice hockey. Other selection criteria include outstanding individual and team skills, sportsmanship, performance in the clutch, personal character, competitiveness and a love of hockey. Consideration is also given to academic achievement and civic involvement." ~pattykaz.com

=Agosta

True North 3
02-20-2011, 02:45 PM
= duggan

ARM
02-21-2011, 12:33 PM
-- I hadn't considered Martin as a 10 candidate, but her numbers look better as she's gotten more starts and UMD's schedule has softened.Apparently, she didn't even get nominated. Strange.

dave1381
02-21-2011, 12:55 PM
The Kazmaier nomination process changed this year. The standards are higher for initial list of nominees. Coaches are allowed to nominate up to 5 players in their conference and 5 players nationally. A player must be nominated by two coaches (possibly including their own) to make the cut.

So Martin's absence reflects that none of the other 7 WCHA coaches thought she was top 5 in conference and no one thought she was top 5 in nation. That's actually somewhat reasonable considering her competition.

This process will limit the ability of any one conference to get more than 5 nominees, and it'll be easier to be a nominee in a smaller conference like the CHA. So the relative number of nominees by conference isn't really a reflection of conference strength. But to the extent that the purpose of this list is to narrow the pool to 10 players, and no conference has ever had more than 5 in the top 10, I'm fine with it.



2011 Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award Nominees

Name Pos Yr School Hometown
Meghan Agosta F Sr. Mercyhurst College Ruthven, Ont.
Kelly Babstock F Fr. Quinnipiac Univ. Mississauga, Ont.
Jenni Bauer G Sr. Niagara Univ. St. Catherines, Ont.
Vicki Bendus F Sr. Mercyhurst College Wasaga Beach, Ont.
Bailey Bram F Jr. Mercyhurst College Ste. Ann, Man.
Brianna Decker F So. Univ. of Wisconsin Dousman, Wis.
Meghan Duggan F Sr. Univ. of Wisconsin Danvers, Mass.
Laura Fortino D So. Cornell Univ. Hamilton, Ont.
Haley Irwin F Jr. Univ. of Minnesota Duluth Thunder Bay, Ont.
Brianne Jenner F Fr. Cornell Univ. Oakville, Ont.
Rebecca Johnston F Jr. Cornell Univ. Sudbury, Ont.
Hilary Knight F Jr. Univ. of Wisconsin Sun Valley, Idaho
Jocelyne Lamoureux F So. Univ. of North Dakota Grand Forks, N.D.
Monique Lamoureux-Kolls F/D So. Univ. of North Dakota Grand Forks, N.D.
Jocelyne Larocque D Sr. Univ. of Minnesota Duluth Ste. Ann, Man.
Isabel Menard F So. Syracuse Univ. Ottawa, Ont.
Hillary Pattenden G Jr. Mercyhurst College Surrey, B.C.
Marie-Philip Poulin F Fr. Boston Univ. Beauceville, Que.
Noora Raty G So. Univ. of Minnesota Espoo, Finland
Lauriane Rougeau D So. Cornell Univ. Beaconsfield, Que.
Jesse Scanzano F Sr. Mercyhurst College Montreal, Que.
Molly Schaus G Sr. Boston College Natick, Mass.
Jackee Snikeris G Sr. Yale Univ. Downington, Pa.
Kelli Stack F Sr. Boston College Brooklyn Heights, Ohio
Jenn Wakefield F Jr. Boston Univ. Pickering, Ont.
Catherine Ward D Sr. Boston Univ. Montreal, Que.

dave1381
02-21-2011, 01:04 PM
Also before UMD fans complain about Martin's omission from the ballot, I'd point out that it's probably better for their players to have the ballot tightened. These results suggest Martin wouldn't have made the 10 if she was on the ballot. Given that, it's better for Irwin and Larocque and the WCHA's chances of getting players into the 10 to have votes concentrated on the players with a real chance.

I'm also surprised that no Hockey East coach outside of Providence apparently thought Lacasse was one of the top 5 players in the conference. That Stack, Schaus, Wakefield, and Philip-Poulin would be the top 4 is unsurprising, and I'm not surprised Ward made the list as well, but I thought at least one other coach would vote up Lacasse.

binnyrus
02-21-2011, 01:06 PM
I'd like to see UMD's Jocelyn Larocque(D) make the top 10. She's right up there in scoring and is one of those defensive players that when you see her in one on one situations you say to yourself "oh, Joce's there . . ." and you simply don't worry about the O player beating her. She makes very few mistakes with the puck. It's strange to see a UMD defender in the mix . . . but I do honestly think she's the single best defender in the WCHA.

EDIT: I don't think Martin deserved it this season . . . she and Harss have played almost equally with neither shining like crazy or really stinking it up. Kind of like the team as a whole. UMD has not had a stellar season, (though they do seem to be finally puting it together) and I do think that makes a difference. The "down" season from a W/L perspective will effect Larocque's chances too . . . she'd be getting more attention if they'd lost fewer games.

EDIT, EDIT: That being said, I'd take Santa (UMD's all time leading game winner) or Harss over any other goalie in the country. They are both fabulous and I still wouldn't be surprised to see one of them win another national championship this season.

brookyone
02-21-2011, 01:08 PM
Difficult to cull that list down to 10 finalists I'd say...but I strongly believe both Knight and Duggan belong among the ten at the very least.

ARM
02-21-2011, 01:14 PM
Coaches are allowed to nominate up to 5 players in their conference and 5 players nationally. ... But to the extent that the purpose of this list is to narrow the pool to 10 players, and no conference has ever had more than 5 in the top 10, I'm fine with it.That might be true if this list was never released, but because it is, it is an honor to be named. So you have goalies that are outside the top 20 in save percentage being nominated while many in the top 10 aren't. There should be some variance in the number of names a coach can put on a ballot for the conference -- if you play in a 12-team league, you should get to nominate more players than somebody in a 5-team league can.

dave1381
02-21-2011, 01:39 PM
That might be true if this list was never released, but because it is, it is an honor to be named. So you have goalies that are outside the top 20 in save percentage being nominated while many in the top 10 aren't. There should be some variance in the number of names a coach can put on a ballot for the conference -- if you play in a 12-team league, you should get to nominate more players than somebody in a 5-team league can.
It's a fair point for discussion, but I think allowing a different number of nominees across league opens up a can of worms. What exactly is the right mapping from number of conference teams to number of nominees? Once you've opened that for debate, should the WCHA be allowed more nominees because it's stronger than Hockey East? Also larger conferences are more likely to have more disagreement for who the top 5 in their conference are, and more potential for nominees.

I am a bit surprised the CHA managed to nominate 7. But if the cost of this process is that too many CHA players make the first cut, I really don't have a problem with that. Also, they will end up being disadvantaged in the later process (i.e. Bendus, a borderline 10 candidate might lose votes to other Mercyhurst candidates).

I do think USA Hockey should be more transparent about what the nomination process is: that making this list is more about how you're perceived within your conference rather than being among the top 26 national level. I also think it's improvement over the list where team nominations were released and two Sacred Heart players made it every year.

JosephPSchmoe
02-21-2011, 01:54 PM
I do honestly think she's the single best defender in the WCHA.

Larocque is the best defender in the WCHA. She's leading the league in scoring for defensemen and is #3 in the nation in scoring. I'm glad she's getting the recognition she's worked so hard to earn.

And good for Haley, too. She missed a bunch of games with injuries and still managed to put up some good numbers.

ARM
02-21-2011, 02:04 PM
It's a fair point for discussion, but I think allowing a different number of nominees across league opens up a can of worms. What exactly is the right mapping from number of conference teams to number of nominees? Once you've opened that for debate, should the WCHA be allowed more nominees because it's stronger than Hockey East?No, the WCHA and HEA would be the same, because in both cases, you're picking out of a talent pool of 160+ players. The CHA has a little over 100, while the ECAC has over 240. The tweak that I'd make to the current process is that of the number from your own conference, no more than 3 can be from your own team. Above that, you get one nomination for every two additional teams in your league. So the CHA would still get 5 (3 could be from their own team, plus two more -- 4/2), HEA and WCHA would have 6; and ECAC coaches would have 8. Perfect? No, but more fair than assuming there will be as many nomination-worthy players in a 100-person pool as there would be in a list of 240.

granddaddyscout
02-21-2011, 03:05 PM
Understand all the points regarding conference representation above, but I still have a hard time justifying Mercyhurst and Cornell producing more nominees than the entire WCHA.

mattj711
02-21-2011, 03:07 PM
...I still have a hard time justifying Mercyhurst and Cornell producing more nominees than the entire WCHA.

Why does that not shock me? :D

myStuff
02-21-2011, 03:19 PM
My picks

Meghan Agosta F Sr. Mercyhurst College Ruthven, Ont.
Jenni Bauer G Sr. Niagara Univ. St. Catherines, Ont.
Vicki Bendus F Sr. Mercyhurst College Wasaga Beach, Ont.
Bailey Bram F Jr. Mercyhurst College Ste. Ann, Man.
Meghan Duggan F Sr. Univ. of Wisconsin Danvers, Mass.
Laura Fortino D So. Cornell Univ. Hamilton, Ont.
Hilary Knight F Jr. Univ. of Wisconsin Sun Valley, Idaho
Noora Raty G So. Univ. of Minnesota Espoo, Finland
Jesse Scanzano F Sr. Mercyhurst College Montreal, Que.
Jenn Wakefield F Jr. Boston Univ. Pickering, Ont.

myStuff
02-21-2011, 03:24 PM
Understand all the points regarding conference representation above, but I still have a hard time justifying Mercyhurst and Cornell producing more nominees than the entire WCHA.

Perhaps you need to see them play...meet them...understand them.....MC and CU have a a major number of some the top players in the nation...it's simply a fact

myStuff
02-21-2011, 03:33 PM
The only people who truly know who the top nominees for Patty Kaz should be are the ladies that play the game. Whether they are friends, enemies or "frienemies" ....They are the ones that know who the 2011 PK honor should go too

dave1381
02-21-2011, 04:12 PM
This'll be latest top 10 prediction


Meghan Agosta F Sr. Mercyhurst College Ruthven, Ont.
Vicki Bendus F Sr. Mercyhurst College Wasaga Beach, Ont.
Meghan Duggan F Sr. Univ. of Wisconsin Danvers, Mass.
Laura Fortino D So. Cornell Univ. Hamilton, Ont.
Hilary Knight F Jr. Univ. of Wisconsin Sun Valley, Idaho
Jocelyne Lamoureux F So. Univ. of North Dakota Grand Forks, N.D.
Jocelyne Larocque D Sr. Univ. of Minnesota Duluth Ste. Ann, Man.
Noora Raty G So. Univ. of Minnesota Espoo, Finland
Molly Schaus G Sr. Boston College Natick, Mass.
Kelli Stack F Sr. Boston College Brooklyn Heights, Ohio

Same as my last one, except I added Larocque. I've been lazy in my consideration of her in prior top 10 lists. I think UMD's consistency in the last few weeks of the season means they're deserving of at least one rep in the Kaz 10, and Larocque has made a big impact, also gives a nicer mix of 6 F, 2 D, and 2 F.

I dont see more than 5 WCHA players in the 10. Is there enough room for both Lams in the 10? Is either one in particular more deserving? I can't tell from the stats or games I've watched online. A simple analysis would credit MLam for putting up more points despite playing D. JLam +18 and MLam +15 for the season. Similar PP stats. I figure both might make it and edge someone else out because voters will have a tough time distinguishing them. I guess GPA is also one data point we're missing and that might help voters.

ARM
02-21-2011, 04:24 PM
Is there enough room for both Lams in the 10? Is either one in particular more deserving? I can't tell from the stats or games I've watched online. A simple analysis would credit MLam for putting up more points despite playing D. JLam +18 and MLam +15 for the season. Similar PP stats.One possible stat where they differ regards penalties: Jo has 44 for 96 minutes; Mo 23/46. You can excuse a few more minutes from a D, IMO, so that would be one area I'd look at. Also, Mo was a Kaz Top 10 two years ago for whatever positive/negative bias that may introduce.

Bumbles
02-21-2011, 05:06 PM
My top 10:

2011 Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award Nominees

Name Pos Yr School Hometown
Meghan Agosta F Sr. Mercyhurst College Ruthven, Ont.
Meghan Duggan F Sr. Univ. of Wisconsin Danvers, Mass.
Laura Fortino D So. Cornell Univ. Hamilton, Ont.
Rebecca Johnston F Jr. Cornell Univ. Sudbury, Ont.
Hilary Knight F Jr. Univ. of Wisconsin Sun Valley, Idaho
Monique Lamoureux-Kolls F/D So. Univ. of North Dakota Grand Forks, N.D.
Noora Raty G So. Univ. of Minnesota Espoo, Finland
Molly Schaus G Sr. Boston College Natick, Mass.
Kelli Stack F Sr. Boston College Brooklyn Heights, Ohio
Jenn Wakefield F Jr. Boston Univ. Pickering, Ont.