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View Full Version : 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: Congrats to Meghan Duggan!



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RStarr
03-10-2011, 01:32 PM
this is not a "best impact for her team" award. it is the best player (on and off the ice) in D1 womens hockey. Put Stack in the WCHA and see what imact she would have against top talent.
Overall, she would be playing with stronger teammates, so I would expect her contribution to increase even more. And why does everything always have to be in comparison to the WCHA? The earth does not revolve around the WCHA, despite what you homers might think.

incredibly surprised to not see....Schaus / Fortino before Stack.
Totally agreed. Its beyond sad and pathetic (and a few other things) that the Kaz committee can't use the guidelines to pick out a more diverse group. Weak azz effort. http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2139/yawncm.gif

dave1381
03-10-2011, 01:42 PM
Where Duggan has stood out for me is how she has performed in games where Wisconsin has been trailing. When UW fell behind Ohio State 3-1 early this season (http://collegehockeystats.net/1011/boxes/wosuwis1.o22), Duggan scored 15 seconds later and then had primary assists on a goal to make it 4-4 in the third and the OT gamewinner. When they trailed UMD (http://collegehockeystats.net/1011/boxes/wmndwis1.n26) 2-0, she had a primary assist and then scored to make it 2-2 with 25 seconds to go. Then in the big comeback in the WCHA championhip (http://collegehockeystats.net/1011/boxes/wminwis1.m05), she had a second period goal plus scored to tie it with under 5 to play. Given Wisconsin hasn't had too many times where they've been behind, she's risen to the occasion when they have.

Exactly.

As for those who are surprised that Knight didn't make it, I would add
(1) it's very hard to get Kaz top 3 votes when you're not the recognized leader of your team and there are three strong candidates who are
(2) 20 of the 32 legit D-I teams are in Hockey East and ECAC, and committee representation is somewhat proportional, so if there's a clear top eastern candidate she's going to get votes
(3) this is the first year conference championship results were under consideration for Kaz. Duggan, Stack, and Agosta all had very decisive impacts in close conference tournament games to top off seasons in which they each also won their league player of the year awards.

Knight probably has a better shot at First Team All-American than she did as the Kaz 3, though I'm guessing most likely the All-American voting will go the same way.

Fun fact: I believe the top 3 NCAA era single-season goal-scoring efforts were Corriero 59 in 2004, Knight 46 & counting this season, and Knight 45 last season, and none made the Kaz 3.

dave1381
03-10-2011, 01:44 PM
Totally agreed. Its beyond sad and pathetic (and a few other things) that the Kaz committee can't use the guidelines to pick out a more diverse group. Weak azz effort. http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2139/yawncm.gif

So which three would you have picked?

dave1381
03-10-2011, 01:50 PM
Overall, she would be playing with stronger teammates, so I would expect her contribution to increase even more.
That's usually the case.

If Duggan had spent her career at BC and Stack had spent her career at Wisconsin, how do you all think would each have performed this season? It's pretty hard to tell, but my guess is Stack would have performed worse than Duggan did at Wisconsin, and Duggan would have performed worse than Stack did at BC, just because both players did perform so well in their specific circumstances.

BadgerFan11
03-10-2011, 01:52 PM
So which three would you have picked?

you're even asking? RStarr would clearly have picked Bauer, Bauer and Bauer. with a close 4/5 being stack and Schaus

ARM
03-10-2011, 02:06 PM
Fun fact: I believe the top 3 NCAA era single-season goal-scoring efforts were Corriero 59 in 2004, Knight 46 & counting this season, and Knight 45 last season, and none made the Kaz 3.The trend continues beyond the NCAA era. Muzerall didn't make the top 10 when she scored 49 goals in 2000.

Travelingman
03-10-2011, 02:14 PM
BadgerFan11 I am sorry you feel that way. My post specifically states on ice play. It is undeniable what Stack has done statistics wise in her circumstance. BC does not make playoffs, does not make NCAA's probably doesn't even finish .500. Scoring a third of your teams goals is a pretty big weight to carry on your shoulders. I happen to be from the east and I am a big fan but I am also a big fan of Meghan Duggan and Hillary Knight. I have watched all of these players for many years and their success has come from hard work and dedication as has Agosta's. Overall - speed, strength, power, prolific scoring ability etc. Agosta is probably the favorite. I don't think you can compare Duggan and Stack they have completely different playing styles. If you take everything off ice into consideration then out of the 3 Duggan is probably the favorite. I know BadgerFan11 that you are just that a huge BadgerFan. I just wanted to bring to the table the stats and how they show in Stack's favor. I am sure the committee will make the correct choice. In the east here we love our hockey too and we also believe in forgiveness. It is time to move forward in a positive direction. The sport certainly is. I am looking forward to seeing Duggan, Stack and Knight suit up for the red, white and blue. The three of these ladies on a line should be able to put up some numbers.

RStarr
03-10-2011, 05:55 PM
RStarr would clearly have picked Bauer, Bauer and Bauer.
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9614/mwade.jpg

leafsfan
03-10-2011, 06:41 PM
The trend continues beyond the NCAA era. Muzerall didn't make the top 10 when she scored 49 goals in 2000.

Of the final 3 Agosta's the best, Duggan is very good and Stack is nowhere near either one of these two players.

WHKY blogger
03-10-2011, 08:20 PM
Sign this petition:

http://www.petitionfree.com/petition/immediate-suspension-of-the-awarding-of-the-patty-kazmaier-memorial-award-by-usa-hockey/222

ARM
03-10-2011, 08:29 PM
Sign this petition...Do I think this award is imperfect? Yes, most awards are. However, I do think it has done a good job of providing student athletes with some recognition in a sport where it is sadly lacking. I'm not in favor of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

WHKY blogger
03-10-2011, 08:37 PM
I dont think what the petitioner is asking for is the award be scrapped. I think what she is asking for is that the process be refined to better fit what the award is designed to be about.

granddaddyscout
03-10-2011, 08:45 PM
That's usually the case.

If Duggan had spent her career at BC and Stack had spent her career at Wisconsin, how do you all think would each have performed this season? It's pretty hard to tell, but my guess is Stack would have performed worse than Duggan did at Wisconsin, and Duggan would have performed worse than Stack did at BC, just because both players did perform so well in their specific circumstances.

I wouldn't agree, I think Duggan is such a unique and well rounded player that she would have excelled no matter where she player. Probably would have had more pedestrian numbers that she has achieved at UW, but equal to or greater than Stack. I definitely think the team would have won more. Duggan is a dominant player in every aspect of the game, like Michael Jordan in basketball. The most talented offensive player, the best defensive player, and the most competitive player all rolled into one.

Stack is a terrific offensive player and may be the most skilled of the three offensively. She is very talented but a little lazy. She would have put up better numbers in my opinion at UW than she has at BC. Her challenge would have been playing for Johnson and conforming to the teams needs as well as Duggan did. I believe she struggled a bit in Vancouver for this reason as well. Stack is a great offensive talent and she would generate lots of points wherever she played.

dave1381
03-10-2011, 08:46 PM
Sign this petition:
http://www.petitionfree.com/petition/imediate-suspention-of-the-awarding-of-thepatty-kazmaier-memorial-award-by-usa-hockey/221

I will not be signing this petition.

I would strongly disagree with the following sentence, please elaborate.


For the fifth consecutive season one or more of the three finalists for this award are severely lacking in one or more of the areas specified in the criteria listed above.

If you were in charge, how would you change the process? Until you have real ideas, then you're just running a, "Vote for us because we're not the other guys campaign.

I can't say I agree with every decision USA Hockey has made with the Kazmaier over time, or every Kazmaier vote or Final 3 or Final 10 selection, but I think it's a model institution. To decide the winner by a committee with specified criteria that include both on and off the ice merits makes it unique to sports awards I know. Much better than 28 writers sending in ballots with no communication and coordination and no common idea of what an MVP is (see Major League Baseball). I still think it's a good process. Because information in women's hockey is generally geographically disperse, there are a lot of challenges to selecting a winner, but everyone involved does their best.

granddaddyscout
03-10-2011, 08:48 PM
Of the final 3 Agosta's the best, Duggan is very good and Stack is nowhere near either one of these two players.

She may be the best hockey player, when she feels like playing at her best. I still think Duggan is the best candidate for the PK though for all the reasons stated. Frankly I think it would be hard for her to be more qualified than she is. She is also without a doubt the most humble of the finalists.

dave1381
03-10-2011, 08:50 PM
Stack is a terrific offensive player and may be the most skilled of the three offensively. She is very talented but a little lazy. She would have put up better numbers in my opinion at UW than she has at BC. Her challenge would have been playing for Johnson and conforming to the teams needs as well as Duggan did. I believe she struggled a bit in Vancouver for this reason as well. Stack is a great offensive talent and she would generate lots of points wherever she played.
A critical, but I believe fair, analysis. Thank you.

WHKY blogger
03-10-2011, 09:08 PM
I will not be signing this petition.

I would strongly disagree with the following sentence, please elaborate.

If you were in charge, how would you change the process? Until you have real ideas, then you're just running a, "Vote for us because we're not the other guys campaign.

I can't say I agree with every decision USA Hockey has made with the Kazmaier over time, or every Kazmaier vote or Final 3 or Final 10 selection, but I think it's a model institution. To decide the winner by a committee with specified criteria that include both on and off the ice merits makes it unique to sports awards I know. Much better than 28 writers sending in ballots with no communication and coordination and no common idea of what an MVP is (see Major League Baseball). I still think it's a good process. Because information in women's hockey is generally geographically disperse, there are a lot of challenges to selecting a winner, but everyone involved does their best.

I am not sure what is behind the petitioners thought process.. I believe you can e-mail her if you click on the petition..

For me I would personally say that over the past 6-7 years there has been at least one omission each year and one or more selected that dont deserve the honor.

The biggest injustice and the turning point for me in no longer being able to follow its progress was the debacle in 2009 where Vetter was given the honor over Lawler who by far met more of the criteria IMHO than any of the other ten finalists. In fact for the #1 player ever in the game to never win this award clearly shows that something is wrong with the process here.. right?

RStarr
03-10-2011, 09:08 PM
Because information in women's hockey is generally geographically disperse, there are a lot of challenges to selecting a winner, but everyone involved does their best.no excuses. their best isnt good enough anymore. either be committed to the sport or get the hell on already.

the NC$$ is money grubby and USAHockey is lazy....bright future for womens hockey.

IceIsNice
03-10-2011, 09:43 PM
She may be the best hockey player, when she feels like playing at her best. I still think Duggan is the best candidate for the PK though for all the reasons stated. Frankly I think it would be hard for her to be more qualified than she is. She is also without a doubt the most humble of the finalists.
Shocking!!! Can't believe you'd pick a WCHA player above the others.....Amazing!

brookyone
03-10-2011, 09:49 PM
Shocking!!! Can't believe you'd pick a WCHA player above the others.....Amazing!

Actually, he may be on to something.