2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: Congrats to Meghan Duggan!

[brookyone]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

Those facts are all correct. I am a Mercyhurst fan who has watched many games. I agree that Agosta is a good player, but not Patty Kaz material. She is selfish and not a two way player at all.. if you look at the +/- of agosta vs stronger teams it is not very good. Against Wisconsin, she was scored on 6 of the 7 goals. Against Cornell the first game she was -3, with the Bendus, Bram, Bestland (3B's) getting all the points. In all close games that Mercyhurst has played this year this seems to be the trend. The 3B line stepping up while the Agosta Scanzano and Jones lines disappearing. This has to account for something? I think Bendus and Bram are gettin way overlooked. Agosta is an outstanding player.. in games that don't necessarily mean much.

Bingo. I've seen Agosta play on several occasions over her career and I've not been impressed due to her dismal defensive play. I've seen Duggan play many times as well, and the two don't compare. Duggan is the better all-around player.

I'm forced to admit getting the very same impression on the few occasions I've had the privilege of watching the Lakers.

[froshgramp'10]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

I have just taken a second look at the original 26 nominees and I find it hard to believe that the neither of the very solid OSU players, McIntosh or Spooner, are included.Embarassing!!!

[dave1381]

I have just taken a second look at the original 26 nominees and I find it hard to believe that the neither of the very solid OSU players, McIntosh or Spooner, are included.Embarassing!!!

Reason is coaches are asked to nominate 5 from conference + 5 others. It then makes sense that OSU and Bemidji players failed to make this list, since they're not considered top 5 in the WCHA or nation.

Whether this list is embarassing or not depends on its goals. It clearly is not a list of the top 26 players in the country. But I'd maintain it's a suitable ballot for selecting the top 10, yet it's still caused too much frustration. ARM may be right the correct solution is to allow the larger conferences to nominate more players.

[RStarr]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

I have just taken a second look at the original 26 nominees and I find it hard to believe that the neither of the very solid OSU players, McIntosh or Spooner, are included. Embarrassing!!!

Their omission from the Kaz list is strictly punishment for going to tOhio State. what the HELL were they thinking?!

[True North 3]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

Now, now, be nice!! Spooner had a hell of a tournament at the Four Nations (one of the big stages)and is a fantastic player. Don't be so hard on Ohio. How quickly we forget Bonhomme, Chesson, Laaksonen.

[OnMAA]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

Their omission from the Kaz list is strictly punishment for going to tOhio State. what the HELL were they thinking?!

I'll never forget it. Ms Spooner is one hell of a competitor, and tough as nails. One year at the big Stoney tournament, she hot hit by a puck in the face and broke her jaw. Saw her being escorted out of the rink by one of the Durham coaches, and I was thinking, couple of weeks before the final U18 camp and 6-7 weeks before U18. That is a tough blow. Well they put her on the team anyway given her skill. She missed 6 weeks of hockey with her mouth wired shut. She did suit up during the U18 tournament, just after she came back to play. Ontario met Quebec in the final. Quebec had a great team that year with Cournoyer, Rougeau, Poulin, Dumais, Oles, D'aoust and Thibault. With about 10 minutes to go in the third, with the game on the line, Spooner was nailed into the boards by Rougeau, and she came up smarting and could be seen in agony having just recuperated from her broken jaw. She was helped of the ice off into the hallway. She was visibly PO'd and visibly hurt. They were checking out her jaw, and I never forget that image and the flashback to less than two months prior at Stoney. Well five minutes later she was on the ice and played liked a caged animal let loose. Ontario ended up winning that Gold medal game 4-3 in OT, and that day showed me how tough a female athlete can be. I have a lot of respect for Ms Spooner. A great hockey player, with a heart almost unmatched.

OnMAA.

[Radar3535]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

You can't be serious. Let me tell you a story about Ms Spooner, so you can eat your words.

I'll never forget it. Ms Spooner is one hell of a competitor, and tough as nails. One year at the big Stoney tournament, she hot hit by a puck in the face and broke her jaw. Saw her being escorted out of the rink by one of the Durham coaches, and I was thinking, couple of weeks before the final U18 camp and 6-7 weeks before U18. That is a tough blow. Well they put her on the team anyway given her skill. She missed 6 weeks of hockey with her mouth wired shut. She did suit up during the U18 tournament, just after she came back to play. Ontario met Quebec in the final. Quebec had a great team that year with Cournoyer, Rougeau, Poulin, Dumais, Oles, D'aoust and Thibault. With about 10 minutes to go in the third, with the game on the line, Spooner was nailed into the boards by Rougeau, and she came up smarting and could be seen in agony having just recuperated from her broken jaw. She was helped of the ice off into the hallway. She was visibly PO'd and visibly hurt. They were checking out her jaw, and I never forget that image and the flashback to less than two months prior at Stoney. Well five minutes later she was on the ice and played liked a caged animal let loose. Ontario ended up winning that Gold medal game 4-3 in OT, and that day showed me how tough a female athlete can be. I have a lot of respect for Ms Spooner. A great hockey player, with a heart almost unmatched. For you to question her choice of school. Give me a break. You should take that back and apologize.

OnMAA.

I dont think choice of school was being attacked. I think the "they" was the Kaz voters.

[OnMAA]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

I dont think choice of school was being attacked. I think the "they" was the Kaz voters.

Ooops . Fast fingers. re-reading it you are correct. Need another morning coffee, or I'll blame it on English being my third language . Apologies to Ms Starr for the wrong interpretation. The story is still worth sharing though.

[mattj711]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

I dont think choice of school was being attacked. I think the "they" was the Kaz voters.

Based on previous statements by Rstarr, it was definitely the choice of school (or more importantly in Rstarr's view the choice of coach) that was being attacked. I interpreted "they" as referring to Spooner, McIntosh or any other tOSU player.

[RStarr]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

Based on previous statements by Rstarr, it was definitely the choice of school (or more importantly in Rstarr's view the choice of coach) that was being attacked. I interpreted "they" as referring to Spooner, McIntosh or any other tOSU player.

correct. *****http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/2738/highfive.gif******

[RStarr]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

Agosta's +/- is a very good +33....However Duggan's numbers are even better. She is a +61....

I would hope that Duggan's numbers are higher. She plays on a stronger team than Agosta. If we are taking strength of schedule into consideration, then we need to take other abstract numbers, like strength of team, into consideration as well.

Agosta is an outstanding player.. in games that don't necessarily mean much.

What an ignorant statement. Every game counts. Especially when your conference doesn't have an autobid. Furthermore, as you elude, its a team sport. Duggan doesn't win every game for Wisconsin, so Agoasta isn't going to win every game for Mercyhurst. I've seen both flop when it counts the most.

[dave1381]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

I would hope that Duggan's numbers are higher. She plays on a stronger team than Agosta. If we are taking strength of schedule into consideration, then we need to take other abstract numbers, like strength of team, into consideration as well.

You really think that helps Agosta's case? Her team was No. 1 all last season without her. Wisconsin didn't make out of their conference quarterfinals. Granted Wisconsin also got another Olympian and a coach back, but it's hardly a slam dunk in Agosta's favor. We're still talking about the top two teams in the league offensively.

It's tough to separate out an individual from team, but team success is a criteria for the award. Usually Kaz winners do come from the top few teams, of which Mercyhurst is just outside, but they were hardly incapable of achieving that this regular season.

Kaz winners typically come from a top player from one of the top 2 or 3 teams
98 UNH, national champion
99 Harvard, national champion
00 Brown, ECAC winner, No. 1 seed, national runner up
01 Harvard, No. 3 team, ECAC runner-up, NCAA third place
02 Northeastern, an exception, but was No. 2 roughly around time of the voting
03 Harvard, No. 1 at time of voting
04 Harvard, NCAA runner-up, ECAC champion, No. 1-3 most of season
05 Minnesota NCAA champion, No. 1 most of the season
06 Wisconsin NCAA champion, No. 1 or 2 most of the season
07 Harvard, probably the least successful team (at time of voting) to feature a Kaz winner
08 Harvard, No. 1 most of the season, ECAC champ, Frozen Four
09 Wisconsin, NCAA champion, No. 1 most of the season
10 Mercyhurst, No.1 most of the season, CHA champ, Frozen Four

So 2007 was probably the only exceptional year in terms of the Kaz not going to a top team. That year Harvard was about No. 6 roughly at time of the voting, and Chu beat out Bauer on the No. 1 team and Agosta on the No. 2 team. That year Chu was the nation's leading scorer and also scored in every game prior to voting (including various devastating losses) and had a +/- that was an order of magnitude above her teammates, and that kind of consistency and two-way play that showed up in the stats was well-known by everyone who saw her play. So that's the kind of resume it took to win the Kaz when you're not on one of the top 3 teams.

What an ignorant statement. Every game counts. Especially when your conference doesn't have an autobid. Furthermore, as you elude, its a team sport. Duggan doesn't win every game for Wisconsin, so Agoasta isn't going to win every game for Mercyhurst. I've seen both flop when it counts the most.

So have I. But has Duggan flopped when it counts the most more often THIS SEASON than Agosta?

Again, all you guys are doing is down playin one player's success while overstating anos Duggan does do well are clearly way more important and significant .ther., Things that Duggan doesn't do well aren't as important as things Agosta doesn't do well. And thing

You make it sound like people supporting Duggan are ex-post rationalizing their support of Duggan. That's certainly not how I feel. If you look back at this thread, you'll see several times I've posted things to the effect of, "Agosta and Bendus have a bit smaller margin of error than the other candidates because they only get 3 games against top teams. They really need a standout performance in these games to have a shot."

[dave1381]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

It's also worth nothing this is the first year ever Kaz voting will take place after the conference tournaments. That creates some interesting dynamics. If a Kaz frontrunner were to have a bad weekend, it could open the door a bit. Usually they don't though. Probably 2002 & 2007 are the only years where I imagine the outcome might have been different in the voting was this late (I also withhold judgment on 1998, I'm just not familiar with that season)

[dave1381]

Re: uh, duh.

Not crazy at all -- I actually completely agree with you that PIMs should be considered. They're certainly a negative impact on team success. I don't think 11-19 penalties for the season is anything to be alarmed about, but JLam has 44 Pen, 96 PIM -- just way more than any of the other candidates. MLam-Kolls with 23 Pen, 46 PIM is also up there.

Yeah.

edit: Well, that's one way to win a game, take a penalty in OT, then score the game-winner.

[granddaddyscout]

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: 26 NOMINEES ANNOUNCED

[QUOTE=dave1381;5053635]It's also worth nothing this is the first year ever Kaz voting will take place after the conference tournaments. That creates some interesting dynamics. If a Kaz frontrunner were to have a bad weekend, it could open the door a bit.

Well Duggan doesn't seem to have bad weekends, that is one of her greatest qualities. I am frankly starting to think it is a lock, it should be.