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ARM
11-30-2010, 09:55 AM
Don't get me wrong, i agree that Cornell and Mercyhurst are talented teams and deserve some praise for their impressive season - but does anyone truly believe either are better than UW, UMD or even Minny?
Put Cornell or Mercyhurst in the WCHA, and they'd be .500 teams - if you can't see this you have blinders on.They are better than Minnesota at this point, at least in terms of what we're able to put on the ice. UND is probably better than us right now. Both Cornell and Mercyhurst are very, very good teams; either is capable of winning an NCAA title. But obviously, so are Wisconsin and UMD.


I'm on record from before the start of the season that Cornell and Wisco are numbers 1 and 2 this year, and I'm sticking by that. ... IMHO you are underestimating Cornell big time. ... Wisco simply has IMHO the best college player in the Nation, and she can and will carry her team.You're right in that both Cornell and UW are great teams. At the same time, you're ignoring that the defending champs are better than they were last year as well, and they have areas where they have the edge over the red-and-white teams. And while Knight is a great player, the Badgers' style is that they tend to be carried by one player less than some other teams. They've got a lot of weapons beyond her.

OnMAA
11-30-2010, 10:12 AM
. Both Cornell and Mercyhurst are very, very good teams; either is capable of winning an NCAA title. But obviously, so are Wisconsin and UMD.

Yep, you and I are aligned on final four candidates and you can make an argument for each team to win it.


And while Knight is a great player, the Badgers' style is that they tend to be carried by one player less than some other teams. They've got a lot of weapons beyond her.

Agreed. It takes great "Team Efforts" to win when it counts.

ARM
11-30-2010, 10:38 AM
Yep, you and I are aligned on final four candidates and you can make an argument for each team to win it.While I agree that those are the 4 favorites to advance to the semis, I doubt that all 4 will make it. Either BU or BC could wind up hosting a quarter if they get hot in conference play, and BC in particular would be a dangerous tournament team (great goalie, senior leadership.) The second tier of teams looks to be deep enough that at least one upset is likely.

granddaddyscout
11-30-2010, 07:08 PM
I was at the Friday night loss by UW to the U this year and that was the best performance in a loss by any team I have seen. If the Bagers can shore up their goaltending that offense will be tough to stop, not just Knight and Duggan. I saw 5 very soft gaols, that won't happen in the playoffs.


They are better than Minnesota at this point, at least in terms of what we're able to put on the ice. UND is probably better than us right now. Both Cornell and Mercyhurst are very, very good teams; either is capable of winning an NCAA title. But obviously, so are Wisconsin and UMD.

You're right in that both Cornell and UW are great teams. At the same time, you're ignoring that the defending champs are better than they were last year as well, and they have areas where they have the edge over the red-and-white teams. And while Knight is a great player, the Badgers' style is that they tend to be carried by one player less than some other teams. They've got a lot of weapons beyond her.

comefrombehind
11-30-2010, 07:33 PM
USA TODAY/USA Hockey women's poll

Nov. 30, 2010

Rank School (first-place votes) Record Points Last week's ranking

1 Cornell (8) 10-1-0 175 2

2 Wisconsin (9) 12-2-0 168 1

3 Mercyhurst (2) 10-2-0 152 3

4 Minnesota Duluth 10-4-0 141 4

5 Boston University 11-2-3 111 5

6 Boston College 10-2-4 108 6

7 Minnesota 10-5-0 71 7

8 North Dakota 8-4-2 54 8

9 Ohio State 8-6-2 28 9

10 Northeastern 9-3-4 14 NR


Others receiving votes: Providence College, 13; Harvard University, 6; Dartmouth College, 4.

mattj711
12-06-2010, 01:35 PM
USCHO.com Division I Women's Poll
December 6, 2010
Team (First Place Votes) Record Points Last Poll
1 Cornell ( 8) 13-1-0 142 1
2 Wisconsin ( 7) 14-2-0 139 2
3 Mercyhurst 12-2-0 118 3
4 Minnesota-Duluth 11-4-1 98 4
5 Boston University 12-2-3 92 5
6 Boston College 11-2-4 84 6
7 Minnesota 11-6-0 48 7
8 Providence 13-5-1 35 10
9 North Dakota 8-6-2 30 8
10 Ohio State 8-6-2 16 9
Others Receiving Votes: Northeastern 13, Bemidji State 6, Quinnipiac 4

IceIsNice
12-07-2010, 03:51 PM
USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine
Women's College Hockey Poll - December 7, 2010

No. Team Points
1. Cornell 179 (10)
2. Wisconsin 170 (7)
3. Mercyhurst 161 (2)
4. Boston University 120
5. Boston College 114
6. Minnesota Duluth 109
7. Minnesota 63
8. Providence 51
9. North Dakota 31
10. Northeastern 26

Others receiving votes: The Ohio State University, 18; Quinnipiac University, 2; Bemidji State University, 1.

binnyrus
12-07-2010, 04:10 PM
USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine
Women's College Hockey Poll - December 7, 2010

No. Team Points
1. Cornell 179 (10)
2. Wisconsin 170 (7)
3. Mercyhurst 161 (2)
4. Boston University 120
5. Boston College 114
6. Minnesota Duluth 109
7. Minnesota 63
8. Providence 51
9. North Dakota 31
10. Northeastern 26

Others receiving votes: The Ohio State University, 18; Quinnipiac University, 2; Bemidji State University, 1.

No disrespect intended, but do these voters know anything at all about D-1 Women's hockey??? I don't put any stock in any of the poles but when one seems as simply wrong as this -in terms of ranking UMD at 6 - I just have to comment, and laugh.

ARM
12-07-2010, 04:24 PM
No disrespect intended, but do these voters know anything at all about D-1 Women's hockey??? I don't put any stock in any of the poles but when one seems as simply wrong as this -in terms of ranking UMD at 6 - I just have to comment, and laugh.At first I'd have agreed with you, but UMD has dropped to #5 in RPI, and their lead over BC there is small. They've been kind of Jekyl and Hyde, so I can see where the voters might struggle with where to place them. Do you judge them on their good performances, or their indifferent ones? It is partly a problem of UMD's own making, by scheduling only two nonconference games, and those against a UConn team that's been in the bottom half.

IceIsNice
12-07-2010, 04:28 PM
No disrespect intended, but do these voters know anything at all about D-1 Women's hockey??? I don't put any stock in any of the poles but when one seems as simply wrong as this -in terms of ranking UMD at 6 - I just have to comment, and laugh.

The pollsters scored them well for skill and performance, but they got killed on points from the fashion judge. ;)

capitalist
12-07-2010, 04:31 PM
Mercyhurst, UMD, Wisconsin, and U of M (that's 4 of the top 7) all must be horribly embarrassed having split series in Bemidji with a team that isn't even ranked.

And hell, according to the Women's front page of USCHO, Minnesota losing to BSU was the women's equivalent of the Russians losing to USA in 1980. Gigantic upset. Huge, unforeseen disaster for Gopher's women's hockey.

ARM
12-07-2010, 04:34 PM
Mercyhurst, UMD, Wisconsin, and U of M (that's 4 of the top 7) all must be horribly embarrassed having split series in Bemidji with a team that isn't even ranked.Bemidji is a good team; however, they didn't split with Wisco'.

EDIT: They did win a series from NoDak, however.

capitalist
12-07-2010, 04:55 PM
Bemidji is a good team; however, they didn't split with Wisco'.

EDIT: They did win a series from NoDak, however.

Whoops. I was thinking about last year probably. The Eveleth Hall of Fame game. :o

And yes I think they got 5 points out of the UND series.

My point, of course, is that even though BSU fans like me have gotten a little carried away with the successes of this best ever season, there are plenty of fans/teams/outlets who don't respect the Beavers as much as we would have them. It's much preferable, however, than being completely ignored because of utter futility.

binnyrus
12-07-2010, 04:56 PM
The pollsters scored them well for skill and performance, but they got killed on points from the fashion judge. ;)

Okay, good, I like that.

I agree that UMD tends to have those "indifferent" games . . . not quite mentally ready to beat the teams they should beat . . . until day two when they've left virtually no doubt about it. Sometimes I look at these polls and I ask myself - "if this were the seeding for the national tourney today would it make sense?" I doubt that (if traditional 1v8, 2v7, etc. . . matchups were used) Mercyhurst would think it was fair (fair is likely the wrong word here) to play UMD in the first round. I'm certain they'd much rather play BC or BU any day of the week. I also seriously doubt that any regular reader of this page honestly would say UMD should be at 6 - regardless of their "indifferent" play.

The good news for UMD fans (and I'm sure the polls will eventually bear this out) is that coach Miller will have this issue sorted and shelved by the time the tourney comes around. UMD has always been a 2nd half team . . . they peak at the of the year.

Also, for good measure I'll just add that I think Bucky is the #1 team in the country right now. I think a WCHA team loss to pretty much any other team within WCHA is not as bad as a loss to any other team in the country (outside of MH or Cornell). That's how much better I think the WCHA is than the other leagues. Bemidji's wins aren't flukes . . . great tending and significantly better team speed has made them more of a contender than previously.

granddaddyscout
12-08-2010, 12:18 AM
Also, for good measure I'll just add that I think Bucky is the #1 team in the country right now. I think a WCHA team loss to pretty much any other team within WCHA is not as bad as a loss to any other team in the country (outside of MH or Cornell). That's how much better I think the WCHA is than the other leagues. Bemidji's wins aren't flukes . . . great tending and significantly better team speed has made them more of a contender than previously.[/QUOTE]

Have to agree about Bucky and the WCHA, in my opinion there is a real bias in favor of the east that history and this year's play doesn't support. Who are these pollsters anyway, I see an all WCHA final with Bucky winning it's 4th NCAA title, that will be the only poll that matters.

ARM
12-12-2010, 10:12 AM
I don't put any stock in any of the poles but when one seems as simply wrong as this -in terms of ranking UMD at 6 ...UMD is now down to #6 in the Pairwise, so the pollsters weren't necessarily wrong, just slightly ahead of their time.

dave1381
12-12-2010, 11:56 AM
Also, for good measure I'll just add that I think Bucky is the #1 team in the country right now. I think a WCHA team loss to pretty much any other team within WCHA is not as bad as a loss to any other team in the country (outside of MH or Cornell). That's how much better I think the WCHA is than the other leagues. Bemidji's wins aren't flukes . . . great tending and significantly better team speed has made them more of a contender than previously.

Have to agree about Bucky and the WCHA, in my opinion there is a real bias in favor of the east that history and this year's play doesn't support. Who are these pollsters anyway, I see an all WCHA final with Bucky winning it's 4th NCAA title, that will be the only poll that matters.

At the top, I find it silly that both men's and women's hockey both have No. 1 teams with one loss and zero top 10 wins. Wisconsin is 4-2 against teams in the PWR top 10, Cornell 0-1.

I would note a few factors about alleged "eastern bias"

--- WCHA is clearly stronger by any legit statistical measure, but voters don't do so great a job of adjusting for strength-of-schedule. They tend to just move teams down when they lose games, that's all. That's really why Cornell is No. 1. A slight majority don't really care that Cornell hasn't beaten another top 10 opponent and lost to the only one it played at home. They just moved Wisconsin down when they lost to UMD, end of story.
Now that the PWR is out, voters move towards the PWR, but the PWR doesn't do so great a job of adjusting for SOS either. BC is 4th in the PWR but 6th in KRACH, 8th in Rutter.

-- There are simply more teams in the East than in the West. To the extent that voters are simply biased towards their own leagues and opponents, voters picked at random are going to favor the East.

IceIsNice
12-14-2010, 03:36 PM
USA Hockey Poll (http://www.usahockey.com/Template_Usahockey.aspx?NAV=PL_03_01&id=198180)

USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine
Women's College Hockey Poll - December 14, 2010

No. Team Points

1. Cornell 182 (11)
2. Wisconsin 175 (8)
3. Boston University 141
4. Minnesota Duluth 120
5. Mercyhurst 119
6. Boston College 116
7. Minnesota 72
8. North Dakota 50
9. Providence 45
10. Northeastern 11

Others receiving votes: The Ohio State University, 8; Quinnipiac University, 4; Bemidji State University, 2.

binnyrus
12-14-2010, 04:13 PM
UMD is now down to #6 in the Pairwise, so the pollsters weren't necessarily wrong, just slightly ahead of their time.

Personally, I hope they stay there and that we get true pairings . . . I'd love for UMD to play BU in the first round. And, if YOU, ARM, think UMD is "really" the 6th best team . . . raise your hand. Clearly they have their issues to work out. That is, to show up for two games in a row, but when they do . . .

ARM
12-14-2010, 05:23 PM
And, if YOU, ARM, think UMD is "really" the 6th best team . . . raise your hand.I don't know. I haven't seen the #1, #2, #3, #4, or #5 team, so it is tough for me to say where the #6 team belongs. The weekend I saw the Bulldogs, they were better than the #7 team. But looking at the schedule, that may have been UMD's best weekend of the season. And they weren't THAT much better than a Gopher team that is playing better now than they were then. So we'll have to see. UMD has the potential to be the NCAA champs. They also have the potential to lose an NCAA quarter. I think that the same can be said about a number of teams. I don't necessarily think that there are six teams better than Minnesota either, but the computer doesn't care who was hurt and who wasn't, so if they want to move up, they have to win more games. The second half should be interesting.