UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

[i'zonprize]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

Was vecchione promised a 2012 slot? Would not be the first ever recruit to be asked to play one more yr..

[Felger]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

What is this obsession with pushing guys back? If they are not asking a recruit to defer they are bringing guys in just to sit for a year. I know there are many factors in what college a kid ultimately chooses, but I have to believe that playing time is an important one. Can't be helping these kids mentally....

Gives a whole new context to our mantra "Wait Till Next Year"

[hockey east fan]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

Good call PSW. Harry Quast defensemen of the Bay state Breakers [EJHL] 6-4 210..hes a 91 birth date.This pickup i dont understand? If Vecchione decomitted because he was asked to wait a year then its Umile and companys own fault, very stupid move in my opinion.

[nhhockeyguy15]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

I think you can also add bourque, yandle & laleggia to the list. Those guys just come to mind. Though the first two went the QMJHL route, though yandle did try umaine and didn't make the cut their either. But things do look like there are more and more each year that never show up for whatever reason.

[JB]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

Do you mean a few years of mediocrity to come or in the past few years? I am assuming its the former, not the latter, considering they have been in the final 8 the last three years.

Anyway, I think there are a couple of things that could be in play here. First, admissions. It is pretty evident by now that the admissions office is no friend of the hockey team. First it was White, then Reid, and this past summer Gaudreau, whose transcript admissions didn't have time to even look at. I'm not sure what exactly is going on here, but whatever clout Umile and the coaching staff had with admissions has gone by the boards. As far as I can tell, there has been no massive drop off on the success of the hockey players graduating, and several of them have truly excelled in the classroom. If Vecchione has completely fallen through the floor academically with the few classes he is taking out in the USHL, I can see why his acceptance at UNH would be in jeopardy.

Second thought is the reference to Denver. Lassonde is at Denver. Was he the lead recruiter for Vecchione? Even if he wasn't, it doesn't take much to get in a kids ear, talk about opportunity, competitiveness and what school is a better fit. It could happen. Although I will say that coaches by and largely adhere to a code that once a player has committed, they don't go after him. Doesn't mean that someone couldn't put a big in a kid's or, more likely, the parent's or family advisor's ear. Maybe suggesting that UNH might not be the best fit.

Whatever the reason, this is another blow to UNH recruiting. As mentioned this is the 4th or 5th kid who has opted out in the last few years. Doesn't bode well for the future me thinks. Anybody got some answers here?

Didn't see this type of mess when a certain Women's coach was bird dogging recruiting. The land scape of earlier kids has changed but somebody has a bad relationship with admissions and there seems to be one coincidence in the staff.

[nhhockeyguy15]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

You really have to wonder how much admissions has played a part with a number of the players who never end up on campus. The woman's program had a mass exodus of players 4-5 years ago, as well as others leaving that program more recently. Not really keeping up to date on who is currently in charge of the admissions department, or any recent turnover in personal within the department. But it makes me wonder if the university really "cracked down" and raised the standards in the middle of the last decade (2005/06). I say "cracked down" in a roll your eyes sort of way. I applied to UNH and was rejected based om my acidemics. But I was accepted at BU, BC, & Northeastern (among others). Go figure, they were tough 16 years ago for me, I can't figure it has gotten better.

[Felger]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

I think you can also add bourque, yandle & laleggia to the list. Those guys just come to mind. Though the first two went the QMJHL route, though yandle did try umaine and didn't make the cut their either. But things do look like there are more and more each year that never show up for whatever reason.

You are correct but I see a distinction between guys who wanted to play Major Junior or those who had trouble with grades and the Vecchione situation. If a kid wants to chase the money or has academic issues that is, to a certain extent, beyond the school's control. But if the reports about Vecchione are correct, than he decommitted because UNH wanted him to play another year in the USHL , something that the school was in complete control of. Granted, we don't know the whole story, but I'm pretty insulted as a UNH fan to have lost a player of this caliber just so I could watch another Kevin McCarey or Scott Pavelski.

[Saetia22]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

This is ridiculous. ANOTHER '91?!?!!?!?? What is happening?? This is unbelievable.

[Dan]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

You are correct but I see a distinction between guys who wanted to play Major Junior or those who had trouble with grades and the Vecchione situation.

I understand your point - but I'm not sure there is a big distinction. To me all of the aforementioned situations point to one major problem. Present day recruiting (specifically due to early recruitment) has left Umile and his older assistants in the rear-view mirror. With kids committing at an earlier age college recruiters need to work harder, navigate a whole new landscape, make early evaluations and projections and continue the recruiting process from the verbal until signing day. Umile and his staff simply do not understand or cannot keep up with the modern prospect and the necessary evils of the recruiting process...

When you recruit kids at such a young age you have to make certain projections on that player's overall ability (academics and character included). This has been a key issue in UNH's recent problems as players either haven't developed as planned on the ice (i.e. Hill or Smith) or off the ice (i.e. White or Reid).

I'm frustrated with the early commitments to players like Hill and Smith who haven't shown the promise or offensive skill we were led to believe they had. Both were deferred, while Smith also failed to make a USHL team and Hill's game has not translated out there. I'm suspicious that their lack of development has forced UNH to add late players like Willows and McDonald out of the EJHL, thus clogging future scholarship plans for talented younger players like Vecchione.

The academic situation is completely frustrating - BUT Umile and the staff need to recruit according to what the admissions office will allow. They have not made the adjustment from O'Neill and Yandle, resulting in last minute denials and holes plugged with less talented players. Yale is freaking winning! Cornell wins! Top student-athletes exist. Recruit them!

One of the biggest keys to early recruiting is making sure that you continue to recruit a prospect throughout the process. Coaches may feel like young players are spoiled and self-centered, they their attention is better served on the current program or future recruits. Simply put, the committed players want to feel the love too. Especially when other programs are contacting them (gentleman's agreement aside) and Major Junior programs are lurking. It takes some extra time and work - but kids like Laleggia and Bourque need to be recruited even after they commit. They need to feel like they are important parts of the program. They need the attention to combat the attention they are getting elsewhere. If you stop paying attention to your beautiful girlfriend and someone else is telling her how beautiful she is - what would you expect to happen?? Once again, last minute defections lead to replacements being drawn from shallow, left-over talent pools!!

Finally, and most pertinent to the Vecchione discussion, when you have 6 forwards in a class - five with lots of questions marks - you don't tell your 6th and most talented forward to defer. You may suggest it, but if they don't want to they don't defer. Umile may not like catering to the top talent to varying degrees - but in this day and age it can be necessary to win recruiting battles and ultimately games. Certainly Vecchione shouldn't have to deviate from what he was promised cause UNH has bungled its scholarship situation. Assuming that is the case here...

EJHL players making the jump to NCAA top-lines (i.e. Paul Thompson and Bobby Butler) are the exception unfortunately. Hill and Gaudreault have not shown top-end production in the USHL (although to be fair, neither did Sorkin and he has been terrific as a So.), while Correale is intriguing but coming off an injury and a half season. Vecchione would sure look nice in that class and probably makes an immediate impact. More recruiting mismanagement and here we are...

Regarding admissions - I spoke to a relative who used to work in admissions and was told that the new admissions director is the strictest the university has ever had. That they refuse to make exceptions for athletes and hold applicants to MUCH higher and different standards than many of the schools they recruit against. One example being - that if students do not take a certain number (above what is normally required) of foreign language credits they will simply not be considered. Even if their grades are great, test scores strong and they meet all necessary core credit requirements.

Lets be honest, UNH is a average to above average state university with some strong programs - it is NOT an IVY League school and the admissions officer needs to realize what role athletics can play in building a university. Let the kids who clearly meet UNH standards into school and stop pretending to be something you�re not!! A nationally successful hockey program likely results in high application numbers (at least in state and regionally) and a stronger academic student body as a whole...win/win...

Umile missed a golden opportunity to rejuvenate recruiting efforts by hiring a young, hard-working, "bird-dogging" assistant coach. Instead he hired an older coach with DIII experience. In other words, more of the same. The staff does a great job coaching the kids up when they get to campus - but the key to college athletics is recruiting. The coach with the best talent wins the most games/championships. Right now UNH doesn't get the best talent. They used to get awfully close...

[Dan]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

This is ridiculous. ANOTHER '91?!?!!?!?? What is happening?? This is unbelievable.

Unfortunately, when you don't effectively recruit and you lose top-end talent late in the game thats all thats left! UNH is down this year because of poor recruiting and that doesn't appear to be changing...

[Saetia22]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

Unfortunately, when you don't effectively recruit and you lose top-end talent late in the game thats all thats left! UNH is down this year because of poor recruiting and that doesn't appear to be changing...

I agree.. but there has got to be someone younger with more upside out there in the USHL or BCHL. I know pickings are slim, but how did wefall into this situation? How did we not pick up on needing a defenseman for next year sooner? I'm sorry, but this is hard to understand and be optimistic about.

[Darius]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

Regarding admissions - I spoke to a relative who used to work in admissions and was told that the new admissions director is the strictest the university has ever had. That they refuse to make exceptions for athletes and hold applicants to MUCH higher and different standards than many of the schools they recruit against. One example being - that if students do not take a certain number (above what is normally required) of foreign language credits they will simply not be considered. Even if their grades are great, test scores strong and they meet all necessary core credit requirements.

Lets be honest, UNH is a average to above average state university with some strong programs - it is NOT an IVY League school and the admissions officer needs to realize what role athletics can play in building a university. Let the kids who clearly meet UNH standards into school and stop pretending to be something you�re not!! A nationally successful hockey program likely results in high application numbers (at least in state and regionally) and a stronger academic student body as a whole...win/win...

Team competitiveness suffers, but it is good for the University's reputation if UNH holds athletic recruits to the same high standards as all other applicants. However, there is no excuse for the Gaudreau story if it is true. When legacies apply the Alumni Association will notify the Admissions Department. This has no bearing on how the application is judged, but it does expedite the process. Admissions and athletic team staffs should have strong working relationships. If they don't then President Huddleston needs to work with the Athletic Director and the head of the Admissions Department to improve the relationship. If something changes suddenly a coach should be able to tell a recruit that he can expedite the process to answer questions and address concerns in minutes/hours not days/weeks.

Nice job with your entire post.

[CarlS]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

Watcher - that post was good analysis on the subject.

[i'zonprize]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

Finally, and most pertinent to the Vecchione discussion, when you have 6 forwards in a class - five with lots of questions marks - you don't tell your 6th and most talented forward to defer. You may suggest it, but if they don't want to they don't defer. Umile may not like catering to the top talent to varying degrees - but in this day and age it can be necessary to win recruiting battles and ultimately games. Certainly Vecchione shouldn't have to deviate from what he was promised cause UNH has bungled its scholarship situation. Assuming that is the case here...
..

1. Great post-
2. The prioritization on who to ask to defer here is pretty confusing- You could easily ask any recruit who wouldn't 'age out' to stay back 1 more yr- But what we don't know- We don't know what the scholarship commitment is for next yr or for next. We don't know the extent of Vecchione's injury. While he played very well early- he had not been lighting it up prior to his injury either.

UNH's issue this is not what happened to O'Neil, Yandle or even Dan Kolomitis or Mr. Campbell last year or even the collection thereof - It's specifically the TRIO of Bourque, White and Reid who would ALL be Jr's today and did not show for various reasons. You would have an entirely different team, perhaps a legit National contender this yr and next had that not occured. Watcher- to his credit, who I recall stating at the time that the debackle would put UNH back 2 yrs. At this point I'm hoping that it's only 2yrs.

We don't really know much about the new recruit- one would think you could offer a 21yr old incoming Frosh something less than a full scholarship to be a roll player- hardly worth the loss of arguably one of your best forward in the next two classes.

I actually like the late pick ups of a Willows and a McDonald- they play in competitive areas and did very well- I believe we'll see both do very well at UNH as well. Although, it's noted that some late recruits have not had success - early or late commitments- still a bit of a gamble.

Unless Vecchione reconsiders- not likely- It's UNH's Scholarship $ again now- lets hope they spend it wisely.

edit- CHC has a nice write-up on the Blog on Quast/ Apparently played with Wey and Doumoulin back in '08- although he's taken a bit different path over the last 3yrs.

[nhhockeyguy15]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

You are correct but I see a distinction between guys who wanted to play Major Junior or those who had trouble with grades and the Vecchione situation. If a kid wants to chase the money or has academic issues that is, to a certain extent, beyond the school's control. But if the reports about Vecchione are correct, than he decommitted because UNH wanted him to play another year in the USHL , something that the school was in complete control of. Granted, we don't know the whole story, but I'm pretty insulted as a UNH fan to have lost a player of this caliber just so I could watch another Kevin McCarey or Scott Pavelski.

I haven't seen the reports, and if the case is correct, I think UNH is missing the boat. You can't risk losing high end talant. And you are right, I would much rather see him now, then see another lesser player for 4 years, and a player who only gets most of his career playing time in his last 2 years, b/c the coachs reward those upperclassman who stay and work hard. Even if they have a more talented playing who is freshman 18/19 years old.