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UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

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  • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

    Originally posted by GoNU5 View Post
    McPhee played for York when he was at Bowling Green, hence the connection I believe.
    That makes sense. A former player calls his former coach and advocates on behalf of a young recruit. Probably happens a lot.

    However, this situation is different. McPhee is now a top executive of a professional hockey team trying to get an amateur player a special financial package from a college and their amateur hockey program. This has the potential to create conflicts of interest that the NCAA should be avoiding:

    (1) McPhee has a financial stake in what happens to his top recruit. He probably wants his investment (i.e., Garrett Harr) to develop in a particular way. What happens if McPhee thinks Harr isn't getting enough playing time under York or isn't playing an aggressive enough style? What's to prevent him from calling York and influencing how Harr is utilized? When JvR was playing for UNH, Flyers' GM Holmgren reportedly grumbled about how UNH was handling his draftee. That's probably not uncommon. However, Coach Umile wasn't beholden to Holmgren because JvR came to UNH through the conventional route (he, his family and family advisor decided on UNH).

    (2) McPhee proably wants to be able to dictate when his player turns professional. What happens if McPhee decides he wants Harr to leave after his freshman year? Again, wouldn't York be beholden to McPhee (i.e., he would want McPhee to steer future draft picks to BC) and not interfere with Harr's decision?

    (3) What if an executive of an NHL club decides he wants all of his draft picks (who retain amateur status) to go to one college? What's to prevent the professional team from turning a particular college program into a de facto farm team? That is, the GM of the NHL team steers all his college-eligible draft picks toward one college with the understanding that each will receive a full scholarship.

    For me, this isn't about the Washington Capitals and BC in particular. The same conflicts could arise with any other NHL team and any other NCAA hockey program.
    Last edited by C-H-C; 07-29-2011, 08:11 AM. Reason: spell check
    The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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    • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

      Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
      That makes sense. A former player calls his former coach and advocates on behalf of a young recruit. Probably happens a lot.

      However, this situation is different. McPhee is now a top executive of a professional hockey team trying to get an amateur player a special financial package from a college and their amateur hockey program. This has the potential to create conflicts of interest that the NCAA should be avoiding:

      (1) McPhee has a financial stake in what happens to his top recruit. He probably wants his investment (i.e., Garrett Harr) to develop in a particular way. What happens if McPhee thinks Harr isn't getting enough playing time under York or isn't playing an aggressive enough style? What's to prevent him from calling York and influencing how Harr is utilized? When JvR was playing for UNH, Flyers' GM Holmgren reportedly grumbled about how UNH was handling his draftee. That's probably not uncommon. However, Coach Umile wasn't beholden to Holmgren because JvR came to UNH through the conventional route (he, his family and family advisor decided on UNH).

      (2) McPhee proably wants to be able to dictate when his player turns professional. What happens if McPhee decides he wants Harr to leave after his freshman year? Again, wouldn't York be beholden to McPhee (i.e., he would want McPhee to steer future draft picks to BC) and not interfere with Harr's decision?

      (3) What if an executive of an NHL club decides he wants all of his draft picks (who retain amateur status) to go to one college? What's to prevent the professional team from turning a particular college program into a de facto farm team? That is, the GM of the NHL team steers all his college-eligible draft picks toward one college with the understanding that each will receive a full scholarship.

      For me, this isn't about the Washington Capitals and BC in particular. The same conflicts could arise with any other NHL team and any other NCAA hockey program.
      It is a game of favors....teams talk to their prospects all the time about where/ how they play. This year we have seen a few leave NCAA hockey for MJ, and I am sure ALL had discussions with their NHL teams. If a drafted player is headed to college, I am guessing 95% have already signed LOI, so 'which college" they go to really doesn't crop up that often

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      • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

        If McPhee (VP/General Manager Washington Capital) sat down with his draftee Garrett Harr and said all of the following, there would be no apparent conflict of interest:
        "Coach York is well-known for developing prospects into NHL caliber players - they've done very well with defensemen, in fact. [We're] already quite happy with Patrick Wey's development under York. Boston College generally has deeper runs into both tournaments annually and thus [you] would play a few more games per season. Besides, not going to NU and [going] to BC would be an upgrade on all fronts for hockey (schedule, coaching, big games, strength and conditioning, facilities, anything else you can think of) and education."

        The conflict arises when an executive of a professional hockey team picks up the phone and calls the coach of an amateur hockey program and says please arrange for my draft pick to receive a full scholarship from your college.
        The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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        • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

          Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
          What's to prevent the professional team from turning a particular college program into a de facto farm team? That is, the GM of the NHL team steers all his college-eligible draft picks toward one college with the understanding that each will receive a full scholarship.
          Many things.

          First, the NHL GMs have zero actual control over what their unsigned draftees do. The draftees can take the GMs advice and allow them to have a say in the matter, but it's not required. If the Rangers had their way, Kreider would be signed already. But he told them to go pound sand because he wants his education and the Rangers don't want him to have it. In the end, the decision is made by the athlete and that comes from their preferences and desires and under advisement from their agent/advisor. Some GMs hate the college route. Others are ok with it. But generally speaking, I think GMs probably would prefer their kids that don't care about education or with NHL ready weight to be playing up north.

          Second... With scholarship limits, you wouldn't be able to send every draftee to a college program every year.

          Third... and most importantly, it's not in the college program's best interests. Why get 7th Round Johnny from Washington and 6th round Johnny from Washington and 5th round Johnny from Washington when you can get 1st round Chris from New York and 2nd round Jimmy from Toronto and 2nd round Patrick from Washington, etc? And that's also assuming that being drafted means a darn thing, which we all know it doesn't. But top college teams can build a better class picking and choosing from all over the spectrum.

          Fourth, if there is a conflict of interest, that is the fault of the college coaches allowing it. If GM Joe says I want 5th round Cameron to develop his offensive game and College Coach Kevin says no I want him to work on his defensive game but he gives in to the NHL GM, he's essentially doing what he believes will not help him win. And that will not help him keep his job - he would lose more (not to mention he would show himself to be incompetent if someone else's input was working better). And then you have a situation that was built and is now razed quickly when a new coach comes in - probably under the direction from the AD that clearly would want things to be different. Most coaches have short shelf lives - except for a few titans of the industry and a few others that coach at places where mediocrity is embraced.

          It's not really a realistic scenario to ever really ask. It is in no one's best interests to have something like this.
          Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
          The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

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          • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

            Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
            If McPhee (VP/General Manager Washington Capital) sat down with his draftee Garrett Harr and said all of the following, there would be no apparent conflict of interest:
            "Coach York is well-known for developing prospects into NHL caliber players - they've done very well with defensemen, in fact. [We're] already quite happy with Patrick Wey's development under York. Boston College generally has deeper runs into both tournaments annually and thus [you] would play a few more games per season. Besides, not going to NU and [going] to BC would be an upgrade on all fronts for hockey (schedule, coaching, big games, strength and conditioning, facilities, anything else you can think of) and education."

            The conflict arises when an executive of a professional hockey team picks up the phone and calls the coach of an amateur hockey program and says please arrange for my draft pick to receive a full scholarship from your college.
            I'm sorry, I know you get upset when people question you but I have to ask... Have you been sniffing magic markers this morning?
            Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
            The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

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            • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

              I'm engaging in a discussion with posters who are interested in how the recruiting process works. I don't accuse posters of being hilarious or under the influence of foreign substances. I've found that most posters enjoy the give and take of information and opinions that don't include personal attacks.
              Last edited by C-H-C; 07-29-2011, 09:09 AM.
              The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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              • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

                I'll take that as a "maybe"...
                Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
                The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

                Comment


                • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

                  This discussion isn't about UNH vs. BC. If Coach Umile were to take a call from a GM of an NHL team who then requested a full scholarship for one of his draftees and Coach Umile arranged for the player to come to UNH on scholarship, then I would say both the GM and Coach Umile may have engaged in a conflict of interest. Besides, it doesn't matter one lick what I think - it's the NCAA which governs the recruiting process.
                  The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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                  • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

                    Originally posted by Nick Papagiorgio View Post
                    The unfair advantage part is hilarious. Networking and connections around the hockey world are a huge part of success in recruiting. It's a great contributor to success of a college hockey coach. Every college program has this "unfair advantage" and every amateur player does as well.
                    This is where the discussion should start and end imo. Probably the most important attribute a college coach or assistant brings to the table is their connections to pro, junior and prep leagues. Head over to the Northeastern thread and you'll find that exact discussion with regards to their new coach and his connections to the pros. Networking is a major part of hockey recruiting, just like it is in the business world. It might not be completely fair to everyone, but sometimes it's not what you know, it's who you know. The same McPhee-York routine that is going on now happens everyday with college coaches as they try to get their young recruits into the programs that will get them most ready for the college game. Not every coach gets to personally scout every single player they'd like to, so word-of-mouth is what gets players from point A to point B on a regular basis. The mistake McPhee made was not talking to York about Haar, it was announcing to the press that he was talking to York about Haar.
                    "Oh No! Not Maine! Then where would we get our deodorant that doesn't work?!"-Stephen Colbert

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                    • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

                      Here's an informative article (courtesy of "redhead18" on the UVM thread) on the current status of John Gaudreau, a fourth-round draft pick of the Calgary Flames who is looking for a place to play next season:
                      http://blogs.burlingtonfreepress.com...ockeys-future/
                      The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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                      • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

                        http://slightlychilled.areavoices.com/

                        I think that looking at all that has happened with Northeastern it just goes to show why some Institutions don't like to run the risk of removing a coach, or having a coach leave. Players are just dropping off the radar for Northeastern, and of course other school will benefit. Not saying that Haar will end up at BC, but it looks that way or it looks like he is being steered that way.

                        Also it looks like Northeastern is getting Josh Manson from the BCHL. He was a 2012 recruit for Quinnipiac. Looks like Northeastern got him to come for this year, to replace Haar. It will be interesting to see where Haar actually ends up.

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                        • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

                          Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
                          Here's an informative article (courtesy of "redhead18" on the UVM thread) on the current status of John Gaudreau, a fourth-round draft pick of the Calgary Flames who is looking for a place to play next season:
                          http://blogs.burlingtonfreepress.com...ockeys-future/
                          "Going to visit UNH" via twitter (https://***********/#!/johngaudreau03).

                          Good luck to this young man and whoever is driving his car.

                          (Nice to see this young player and his family exercising due diligence in choosing a college. General Manager for the Calgary Flames, Jay Feaster, could have saved everybody a lot of time by choosing a college program for Gaudreau, calling up the coach, and asking for a full scholarship).
                          Last edited by C-H-C; 07-29-2011, 02:02 PM.
                          The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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                          • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

                            Originally posted by nhhockeyguy15 View Post
                            http://slightlychilled.areavoices.com/

                            I think that looking at all that has happened with Northeastern it just goes to show why some Institutions don't like to run the risk of removing a coach, or having a coach leave. Players are just dropping off the radar for Northeastern, and of course other school will benefit. Not saying that Haar will end up at BC, but it looks that way or it looks like he is being steered that way.

                            Also it looks like Northeastern is getting Josh Manson from the BCHL. He was a 2012 recruit for Quinnipiac. Looks like Northeastern got him to come for this year, to replace Haar. It will be interesting to see where Haar actually ends up.
                            Haar, “I started to tweet a little bit more so Caps fans could get to know me better and know where I am going from. I think with Twitter it’s a way to let people know what’s going on with me.”

                            Trust me kid, we do not care. (And no this is not animosity from him decommiting from NU)
                            Northeastern Huskies

                            Beanpot Champions: 2018, 2019
                            Hockey East Champions: 2016, 2019

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                            • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

                              Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
                              (Nice to see this young player and his family exercising due diligence in choosing a college. General Manager for the Calgary Flames, Jay Feaster, could have saved everybody a lot of time by choosing a college program for Gaudreau, calling up the coach, and asking for a full scholarship).
                              Yea, maybe he could commit to UNH and the Calgary GM and Umile can become pals and the Mildcats can become a de facto farm team for Calgary. I would hate to see that happen, you know, with the conflicts of interest and all.

                              Does Umile take recruits out to see the local golf courses first? "It's a little beat up now in July, but trust me, these greens are fantastic in late March and early April!"

                              An early golf season is such an unfair advantage for UNH!
                              Last edited by Nick Papagiorgio; 07-29-2011, 02:32 PM.
                              Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
                              The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

                              Comment


                              • Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2014

                                Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
                                (Nice to see this young player and his family exercising due diligence in choosing a college. General Manager for the Calgary Flames, Jay Feaster, could have saved everybody a lot of time by choosing a college program for Gaudreau, calling up the coach, and asking for a full scholarship).
                                I think Jay has put in a call to the former Head Coach at Susquehanna Univ

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