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willythekid
08-03-2010, 11:52 AM
it's a lot easier to do that in the East, where there is only one elite team that first round talent wants to play for, as opposed to the west, where there are many more choices.

Some of you may have missed that fact that more Gophers played in the NHL than any other school, so He knows how to recruit, he just can't keep them from under-performing before they leave for the cash.


FYP

Puck Swami
08-03-2010, 11:52 AM
it's a lot easier to do that in the East, where there is only one elite team that first round talent wants to play for, as opposed to the west, where there are many more choices.

I don't think it's that much easier. BU, UNH and Maine have all had first round talent over the years, and other schools like Harvard, Dartmouth and Cornell snag first rounders, too.

BC's first rounders are rarely the guys that win titles for them - it's the little guys with speed and tenacity that are the diference makers...

J.D.
08-03-2010, 11:53 AM
it's a lot easier to do that in the East, where there is only one elite team that first round talent wants to play for, as opposed to the west, where there are many more choices.

One? Come on. JVR, Colin Wilson, Louis LeBlanc, Riley Nash...all went to different schools in the dreaded East. :rolleyes:


Some of you may have missed that fact that more Gophers played in the NHL than any other school, so He knows how to recruit, he just can't keep them away from the cash.

That's fantastic--except Don Lucia isn't being paid to put guys in the NHL. Thus, maybe he should change his recruiting philosophy.

On another note, how does the talent level in Minnesota compare to when Minny won the back-to-back titles?

Happy
08-03-2010, 11:53 AM
FYP

Vanek won the trophy, and UND couldn't with god on the roster. if you can't win with god, who is doing the underachieving?

willythekid
08-03-2010, 11:55 AM
Vanek won the trophy, and UND couldn't with god on the roster. if you can't win with god, who is doing the underachieving?

God.

Happy
08-03-2010, 11:55 AM
One? Come on. JVR, Colin Wilson, Louis LeBlanc, Riley Nash...all went to different schools in the dreaded East. :rolleyes:



That's fantastic--except Don Lucia isn't being paid to put guys in the NHL. Thus, maybe he should change his recruiting philosophy.

On another note, how does the talent level in Minnesota compare to when Minny won the back-to-back titles?

and what elite teams did they play for? other than BC, the wcha more or less owns the NCs.

J.D.
08-03-2010, 11:58 AM
and what elite teams did they play for? other than BC, the wcha more or less owns the NCs.

I can't believe I'm gonna do this, but have you ever heard of Boston University?

You just make it sound like 1st round talent only considers BC in the East. That isn't true.

burd
08-03-2010, 12:01 PM
All coaches search for the elusive balance between talent and character.

As coaches, I think there is a tendency to fear not having enough talent - injuries and defections can rob a team of it's talent and most coaches would rather stockpile as much talent as they can to mitigate such losses. Unfortunately, there is usaully a higher correlation between the talent of a player and his ambition to play a key role, but there are only enough top six forward /top four d spots for some and not all to develop they way they imagined when they signed.

That's where character comes in.

It's not the pure talent that makes a coach so much as it is the ability to get players to thrive in different roles to help the team be more than the sum of its parts. It sounds so simple, yet it's so difficult in practice. Having teams with as many highly drafted players, as great as it is to have the Tomas Vanek's of the world who can beat you with pure skill and brilliance, you also need the Gino Guyers of the world who can beat you with their grit and tenacity.

Minnesota will be a great program again when Don (or his successor) finds the right balance...

Absolutely agree on the importance of being able to get your players to understand and buy into their roles. I think Hakstol excels at that, though I sometimes wonder if his game-coaching abilities are on a par with those he ultimately runs up against, like York (or Gwozdecky). Lucia has proven himself in both areas in the past--he just needs to get that Mojo back.

No rush.

cross cheque
08-03-2010, 12:03 PM
More whining and excuses from Lucia. And most of the Minnesota fans STILL eat it up.

Waaah, the internetz are stupid!

the game is changing, it's not like back in my day!

I tell you, kids these days!



He sounds more like a bitter fan, than a head coach. The article, as a whole, sounded like two Gopher fans sitting at the bar, thanks to Wodon.

Everybody wants an easy answer. Maybe if every player(and coach) worked a little harder, the Gophers wouldn't be such suckwads. That might be the easy answer that you all are looking for.
But no, its always somebody else's fault with the Gophers: The NHL, Garth Snow, fate, anti-Gopherism, prima donnas, Hill, the new CBA, the internet, etc.

Actually all the reasons and facts Lucia laid out were pretty legit and it answered a lot of questions surrounding the UM program. UND was well below .500 in Gasparini's last 3 years and Dave hasn't won a NC in 6 tries. Every college hockey team faces the same problems as UM does, they unfortunately have hit a rough patch which has resulted in the last couple years of mediocrity not because they are "suckwads".

So, new thread coming to the fan forum? "Don't fire Don Lucia, all is well"

ScoobyFanClub
08-03-2010, 12:07 PM
I felt his comment regarding Seth Ambroz was the most unfortunate comment of the entire interview. Don Lucia's comment clouded, rather than clarified, the issues surrounding Seth Ambroz's return to the USHL. According to Seth's mother, Lucia told him that he probably would not receive adequate ice time with the Gophers and it would be in his best interests to return to the USHL where he could get lots of it.

IIRC Hammy reported that Seth did have some academic issues but his understanding was they were minor.

Retrieved from http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/blogs/53164417.html?ic=368

Perhaps, since apparently the Star Tribune never talked to Lucia, the kids' parents were b.s.'ing the Star Tribune.

HarleyMC
08-03-2010, 12:09 PM
On another note, how does the talent level in Minnesota compare to when Minny won the back-to-back titles?

I don't think you can make a valid and reliable correlation between the two (pre/post CBA). If you read the interview, Lucia comments on the measured development of players like Martin and Leopold over time. The interview clearly highlights the crux of the problem that recent defections to the pros over the past 2-3 seasons have made the current squad much younger and to some extent underdeveloped by comparison.

cross cheque
08-03-2010, 12:11 PM
Vanek won the trophy, and UND couldn't with god on the roster. if you can't win with god, who is doing the underachieving?

UND has done it 7 times without God on the roster, speaking of God I heard he decommitted from UM and signed a letter of intent with UND ;) .

ScoobyFanClub
08-03-2010, 12:11 PM
In my opinion Lucia hasn't done a good enough job handling players and now he is backtracking to make himself look better. The fact is other big name schools have players leave early and haven't slid back as far as his team has.

But is that really even true? 2 years without an NCAA bid. What happened to Wisconsin after it won in 2006 ... The Badgers went through the same thing. They won with a lot of character guys - then could recruit anyone - loaded up on talent - but it didn't work out as well until this year. Granted, they recovered more quickly than Minnesota has -- but like the article says, everyone is trying to figure it out and it's true, maybe Minnesota wasn't as quick to figure it out ... But it's not like they're the only ones that struggled.

Michigan has slipped - they barely squeaked in last year. Denver missed the NCAAs a couple of times after winning the NCs ... and look what happened to them in last year's NCAAs.

All the same things that Minnesota is going through, has happened to many others too.

People thought Jack Parker was washed up - and he also had to figure a lot of things out - including changing his recruiting philosophy big time. BU went through a lot of doldrums before finally winning ... and then last year, was right back to mediocrity.

J.D.
08-03-2010, 12:13 PM
No rush.

Doug Woog had back-to-back under .500 campaigns and he was gone. Granted I know nothing about that situation...

19-17-9
17-13-7
18-19-2

Not horrific, but not up to Minnesota standards. Do their fans have the patience? Missed the NCAAs in back-to-back years for the first time since Woog's last year and Lucia's first.

By all accounts, Minnesota isn't expected to be much better than last year, correct?

SoCalSiouxFan
08-03-2010, 12:14 PM
It is a good article. ... he sounds frustrated. ...


...stay in college too long? People argued that happend to Ryan Duncan at UND.

Overall, Don didn't "sound" to me like someone who's having a lot of fun in his job right now.

Good article.

I imagine he is frustrated. Obviously he takes pride in his work so it must be frustraiting to not meet his own expectations, and also to let down every one else who counts on him to lead this team to success. Not participating in the WCHA tournament must have been devastating.

The other elite teams in the WCHA, North Dakota, Denver, and Wisconsin are at least showing signs of life in the post season. And at least ended the season with somethin to show for their efforts. Nothing for the Gophers. Nothing! Not even a sniff.

Ryan Duncan didn't stay too long at UND, college was the right place for him. He had the skill, work ethic, and had the aptitude for NHL hockey but unfortunatately he didn't exactly have a dominating physical presence due to his size. He was never drafted by an NHL team and he was not picked up as a free agent after he graduated. Obviously being on the same line with Jonathan Toews and with TJ Oshie gave him the opportunity to score a lot of goals in college and to win the Hobey Baker award.

Not having fun at his job? Bigger question is whether the players are having fun in college. Seems like players at most programs do like being in school and actually prefer college life. Maybe for Leddy the choice was simply a matter of which organization just made him feel good. Obviously Blackhawks are winners. Maybe he simply wanted to associate himself with winners.

burd
08-03-2010, 12:19 PM
Doug Woog had back-to-back under .500 campaigns and he was gone. Granted I know nothing about that situation...

19-17-9
17-13-7
18-19-2

Not horrific, but not up to Minnesota standards. Do their fans have the patience? Missed the NCAAs in back-to-back years for the first time since Woog's last year and Lucia's first.

By all accounts, Minnesota isn't expected to be much better than last year, correct?

Oh, I'm sure the UMinn fans (and administrators) feel need to rush to recovery. But as a Sioux fan, I'm feeling remarkably patient with the whole situation.

HarleyMC
08-03-2010, 12:19 PM
Perhaps, since apparently the Star Tribune never talked to Lucia, the kids' parents were b.s.'ing the Star Tribune.

Based upon his mother's multiple responses in the article, there doesn't appear to be any malicious intent to deceive the media. An a priori indictment that his "parents were b.s.'ing" does not seem warranted at all.

mookie1995
08-03-2010, 12:20 PM
Yes goldy, I've read it.

My point is all the kids are doing what to them is a better opportunity. They may be right, they may be wrong. It's on them to make the choice. tD may feel he knows best, and maybe he does. I may know best. You may know best. But the choice is made singularly for each situation. MJ, AHL, whatever.
Now woden ask him his thoughts and he answered. And tD will still be able to go out and get almost any kid he wants to keep the pipeline coming. So it's really all good.

bostonewe
08-03-2010, 12:20 PM
Jerry York realized this trend ten years ago and molded his team around it. No surprise at BC's success. I'm more surprised more schools haven't tried to emulate how they recruit and whom they offer scholarships to.
Agreed. And not only has Coach York demonstrated his knowledge of the changing game, but also the importance of character (as Swami discusses subsequent to your post). His handling of the current issues has been very classy, especially as the players themselves have demonstrated that class is something they lack.


I don't think it's that much easier. BU, UNH and Maine have all had first round talent over the years, and other schools like Harvard, Dartmouth and Cornell snag first rounders, too.

Agreed - in fact I'm almost 100% sure that this has been discussed in the UNH recruiting thread.

I enjoyed the article, but questioned the fact that he said that BU didn't lose any players after winning the NC. I'm not sure if he meant BC (or said BC and it was a typo) or if he was mistaken. BU lost a number good of players after that season - Colin Wilson for one, Brian Strait as another.

Bronzebacks
08-03-2010, 12:20 PM
and what elite teams did they play for? other than BC, the wcha more or less owns the NCs.

Come on now Happy. I agree the WCHA is a great conference. But to disregard schools such as BU, Maine, UNH, etc. is a mistake.

I would argue that games are called differently by referees in the WCHA vs. other conferences. From what I have seen, the WCHA is typically a more physical conference where size is of greater importance. (Bullís-eye for NHL teams) Meanwhile, I feel the referees out east call tighter games (which I like). UND, UW, UM TC, have a history of having big physical players. In order to even think about a NCAA bid, you have to be able to compete in your own conference. It is a different style of play.

Not to say you can not have success with a smaller faster team. It obviously worked well for BC against the Badgers. SCSU has had recent success retaining smaller skilled players such as Ryan Lasch and Garrett Roe. UNDís Ryan Duncan is a great example as well. The struggle is to find that balance so you are protected from early departures to the NHL, can still match up well and compete in your own conference, and still make a run in the NCAAs.