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cross cheque
08-05-2010, 10:08 AM
BS.

I've added more substantive discussion to this thread than half the Gopher posters have. Sorry I'm not tiptoeing around all these babies and their egos.

{sigh}

scsutommyboy
08-05-2010, 11:26 AM
Almost every MN born recruit (>90%) that I've researched over recent years has verbally indicated to media sources that it's been his lifelong dream to play for the Gophers. That hasn't changed much and stating that playing for the Gophers is now only a "stepping stone" to the pros contradicts their often enthusiastic admission. Secondly, I applaud Don Lucia's openness and coaching emphasis in stating that the University of Minnesota is NOT a "farm team" for the NHL. I also concur with Lucia's emphasis on education and obtaining a college degree as a vital component of his vision and philosophy for student-athletes at the University of Minnesota. This operative vision negatively correlates with the perspective that the UMN is only a "stepping stone" to the pros. In my view, it is not outdated or obsolete simply because the University of Minnesota is in the education business and it must both in practice and in theory, uphold this timeless priority regardless of the prevailing trends and corporate pathologies of our self induced sports entertainment culture.

Furthermore, more research (either qualitative or mixed methodology would be effective) is needed to longitudinally determine with sufficient validity and reliability: 1) at what specific age young Minnesota hockey players begin to speculate and "dream" about playing for the Gophers?, 2) whether there are negative correlations with becoming a pro hockey player and maintaining that "dream"?, 3) what degree of influence do external sources have in positively or negatively mediating that "dream"?, and 4) do professional attributions represent a causal relationship of decline in the psychocultural component of that "dream" once it is fulfilled?

I'm not aware of any such extant research, but based on iteration of the above phenomena consistently demonstrated by recent Gopher players, it appears the "dream" is still quite active in the minds of young hockey players throughout the State. However, as I stated previously the CBA has changed the landscape of all of college hockey, making it more possible for players to make the jump to pro hockey earlier in their college career should they stay healthy and perform well. But to accurately determine the positive or negative correlations these opportunities have served in potentially changing the mindset of young Minnesota hockey players who aspire to play for the Gophers requires valid research data or it's simply an opinion without any basis in fact.

Here's one future recruit's (Ben Marshall) recent comment (http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=534022). Many others playing for the Gophers have made similar remarks:



Lastly, as Don Lucia stated in his interview Minnesota and Michigan have been feeder programs for the NHL for years. I suspect UND may possibly see more defections in the very near future with NHL players such as Parise and Toews representing the quality of the UND hockey program as well. It would be interesting to research how much actual influence Dave Hakstol has in encouraging/persuading his players to stay in school.

I agree that most players say it is their dream to play for the Gophers and I am sure that is true. That of course doesn't mean that it is not a bigger dream dream to play in the NHL or for the Wild. Maybe part of that dream is that the "U" is jsut a stepping stone to the show? Just a thought.

Puck Swami
08-05-2010, 11:43 AM
I agree that most players say it is their dream to play for the Gophers and I am sure that is true. That of course doesn't mean that it is not a bigger dream dream to play in the NHL or for the Wild. Maybe part of that dream is that the "U" is jsut a stepping stone to the show? Just a thought.

This is exactly my previous point.

SCSU Euro
08-05-2010, 11:50 AM
I've added more substantive discussion to this thread than half the Gopher posters have.

So you suck at math as much as you suck at making points. Sounds like you got a lot going for ya there.

scsutommyboy
08-05-2010, 12:15 PM
This is exactly my previous point.

Sorry I didn't read your post..:o

Puck Swami
08-05-2010, 12:36 PM
Sorry I didn't read your post..:o

It's okay. Great men tend to think alike.;)

HarleyMC
08-05-2010, 12:37 PM
Every Minnesota player is going to say it was their dream to play there. Why wouldn't they say that? It's just not always the primary dream anymore....

Not the "primary" dream among which recruits and what percentage PS? That hasn't been empirically proven. Saying that UMN is only a "stepping stone" is a little too pandemic PS.

Now I'm as interested to look at the findings as much as you are. That's why above, I provided you with a research design, research question and subquestions suitable for a doctoral thesis if you need one to prove your point. All you have to do is fill it in with an appropriate methodology (Grounded theory might also work). Then write that book and buy that Ferrari. Let me know what you come up with.;)


Harley, you can do all the qualitative research you want, but I think some good old fashioned observational studying would prove to be just as if not more informative.

You're most likely referring to what is called an ethnographic qualitative research design, which regarding this research topic I would not recommend because of the potential for the Hawthorne effect, and internal bias through subject researcher transference.

You're hypothesizing regarding a particular psychosocio-cultural trend that you have a personal viewpoint on. Engaging in appropriate research on the topic could disprove your hypothesis or potentially provide you with a valid theoretical construct to substantiate your argument. But you'd have to lay aside your present bias first in order to validate your research.

Seth Helgeson:


The 18-year-old defenseman, currently playing with the United States Hockey League’s Sioux City Musketeers, won a gold medal playing for Team USA in the World Junior A Challenge Sunday in Camrose, Alberta. And today, Helgeson will sign his national letter of intent to join the University of Minnesota men’s hockey team in 2009.

The latter was a dream come true.

“It was every Friday and Saturday night looking forward to watching Gopher hockey games on cable growing up,” Helgeson said. “Growing up in Minnesota, that’s what everyone wants to do: Play hockey and play for the Gophers.”

http://www.faribault.com/news.php?viewStory=38801

Bronzebacks
08-05-2010, 03:14 PM
My posts are rational, aren't they? Why else would Wodon get his knickers in such a twist over people's criticism of The Don? It has to be a crush. Adam is simply infatuated with Lucia like a 12 year old schoolgirl with Twilight. There really is no other explanation.

This is beautiful...In Dirty's own words from a previous post of his.

Expecting your average Sioux fan to understand compound fractions is asking a bit much. Expecting them to understand all the things you mentioned is downright insane.
__________________


Brett Hextall Scale of Awesomeness
Chay Genoway Returning: 9.97

Hollywood Hair Care Tip for Infinity (Directly from Hollywood himself)
when its minus 20 and u have to go outside.. make sure u wear a winter hat as the mohawk does not enjoy the winter weathe(r)

Updated: March 14 - Why, I haven't seen a beating like that since....

cross cheque
08-05-2010, 03:38 PM
This has nothing to do with hockey but it's really too good not to share:


http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/women-20902-charged-fight.html

Happy
08-05-2010, 03:41 PM
This has nothing to do with hockey but it's really too good not to share:


http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/women-20902-charged-fight.html

Queiona is dirty's real name, after all.

goldy_331
08-05-2010, 04:09 PM
This has nothing to do with hockey but it's really too good not to share:


http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/women-20902-charged-fight.html

Is Queiona cg_siouxfan's mom? It would explain so much.

wasmania
08-05-2010, 04:11 PM
Actually I am familiar with Occam's razor. It's entertaining Was how you just demonstrated you're a practicing anti-razor. Although your wrong again, it was conceptionally and theoretically well conceived.:D

If I ask you clarify will you do it in 50 words or less?

cross cheque
08-05-2010, 04:15 PM
Queiona is dirty's real name, after all.


Is Queiona cg_siouxfan's mom? It would explain so much.

I didn't think you guys would figure that out so fast, and they are guilty as charged. The missing piece of the puzzle is that Happy was on stage getting his Kinder-diploma during the ruckus laying on the ground, crying, and pounding the ground with his fists.:D

Dirty
08-05-2010, 04:37 PM
This is beautiful...In Dirty's own words from a previous post of his.

Expecting your average Sioux fan to understand compound fractions is asking a bit much. Expecting them to understand all the things you mentioned is downright insane.
__________________


Brett Hextall Scale of Awesomeness
Chay Genoway Returning: 9.97

Hollywood Hair Care Tip for Infinity (Directly from Hollywood himself)
when its minus 20 and u have to go outside.. make sure u wear a winter hat as the mohawk does not enjoy the winter weathe(r)

Updated: March 14 - Why, I haven't seen a beating like that since....

Expecting Bronzebacks to be able to use the quote button is also downright insane.

MinnesotaNorthStar
08-05-2010, 05:26 PM
It's okay. Great men tend to think alike.;)Yeah, but in tommyboy's case I think the one about blind squirrels and nuts is more accurate. :D


This is beautiful...In Dirty's own words from a previous post of his.

Expecting your average Sioux fan to understand compound fractions is asking a bit much. Expecting them to understand all the things you mentioned is downright insane.
Somebody needs their sarcasm meter fixed...

Stauber1
08-05-2010, 06:09 PM
You're most likely referring to what is called an ethnographic qualitative research design, which regarding this research topic I would not recommend because of the potential for the Hawthorne effect, and internal bias through subject researcher transference.

You're hypothesizing regarding a particular psychosocio-cultural trend that you have a personal viewpoint on. Engaging in appropriate research on the topic could disprove your hypothesis or potentially provide you with a valid theoretical construct to substantiate your argument. But you'd have to lay aside your present bias first in order to validate your research.



No, what I am suggesting is that research on this topic is not going to prove or disprove a thing. I question how you would operationalize any sort of study in order to reach empirical data that proves anything about these kids' decision making process or attitude; especially in a manner in which it can be generally applied to all, or even most, Minnesota hockey players. Actually I withdraw my question, because I'm sure you will write an essay about how you would do just that:eek: And I just can't do that to my fellow posters;)
Maybe if you had access to much more than any of us do, you could develop a methodology that would yield some greater insight. But none of us have the tools and/or access to do so.

Telling others they shouldn't speculate about the cause of MN's hockey troubles without giving due diligence to qualitative research on the topic is akin to saying that no one should speculate.

SoCalSiouxFan
08-05-2010, 07:34 PM
Something still doesn't sit well with me with the Nick Leddy signing.

Nick Leddy has almost no chance of playing for the Blackhawks this next season and will likely spend the entire season in the AHL where his first year contract is $67,500.

So basically he must consider a $67,500 job with the Rockford IceHogs next year a better deal than playing for the gophers another season.


http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=397017


The Star-Tribune reported the three-year deal would be worth $2.7 million, and Leddy would make $900,000 with bonuses if he makes the Blackhawks, and $67,500 if he plays for the Rockford IceHogs, their AHL affiliate.

Driftryder
08-05-2010, 07:49 PM
Something still doesn't sit well with me with the Nick Leddy signing.

Nick Leddy has almost no chance of playing for the Blackhawks this next season and will likely spend the entire season in the AHL where his first year contract is $67,500.

So basically he must consider a $67,500 job with the Rockford IceHogs next year a better deal than playing for the gophers another season.


http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=397017

Yes he took the money option instead of the college route unfortunately it's not that uncommon anymore. Also IIRC the Blackhawks made it sound like he would have a good chance by the end of the season to be up playing in the NHL. I realize they were probably blowing smoke up his a*ss but to a 19 year old I bet it sounds pretty good.

burd
08-05-2010, 09:24 PM
OK. Just an ordinary Nodak here trying to connect with this whole gopher dream thing, and I think I get it. When I was a little boy, I dreamed I had a garden hose that could cover a whole quarter-section of pasture land. A pasture just riddled with gopher holes. There was just me and this faucet with a mile-long hose connected to it and all these gopher holes. I'd guess a lot of little snotnosed nodak boys had that dream and some of them maybe got to realize it one day.

Nowdays, though, drowning ratty little gophers isn't the end. Nowdays, you just get good training drowning all them gophers before you (hopefully) move on to drowning real Minnesotans.

Do I get this right?

The Rube
08-05-2010, 09:55 PM
OK. Just an ordinary Nodak here trying to connect with this whole gopher dream thing, and I think I get it. When I was a little boy, I dreamed I had a garden hose that could cover a whole quarter-section of pasture land. A pasture just riddled with gopher holes. There was just me and this faucet with a mile-long hose connected to it and all these gopher holes. I'd guess a lot of little snotnosed nodak boys had that dream and some of them maybe got to realize it one day.

Nowdays, though, drowning ratty little gophers isn't the end. Nowdays, you just get good training drowning all them gophers before you (hopefully) move on to drowning real Minnesotans.

Do I get this right?

Killling them Injuns wasn't enough. They wanted the Injuns' land, too. ;)