Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

[neumyer]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

If something is not worked out Assumption.Franklin Pierce and Stonehill would probably drop the sport,SNHU would have to take a hard look at Varsity status ,leaving St.A's and St.Mike's to try to figure it out on there own.
If the NCAA can sign off on playing up, what is the big deal on allowing teams to play down(if they continue to play by DIII rules).

I have to believe that St A's must have a contingency plan having just put several million dollars into a new on campus rink. I don't see them walking away from hockey.

[hawkhockey]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

[QUOTE=neumyer;4797568]I have to believe that St A's must have a contingency plan having just put several million dollars into a new on campus rink. I don't see them walking away from hockey.[/QU
the rink was built with monies from a restricted gift stipulating that the money could only be used to build a rink.
The contigency plan(s) was to either drop schlarships(basketball) and move everything to DIII, which,because of the NCAA moratorium, is not a current option or to move hockey to DI, which may or not be an option if the NCAA decides that all new programs petitioning to move one sport to DI will be denied unless the school decides to move ALL programs to DI.That will not happen.this is a classic"between a rock and a hard place" scenario that is being caused by the NCAA.Remember ,St.A's has had a varsity team since 1969 and now is faced with no real options.

[joecct]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Don't forget that there are several DIII schools (Clarkson, SLU, RIT, etc.) playing in the DI championship, and the rest play at the DIII level, so if DIII can split, why not DII?

Let me pick this off from the NCAA D-III manual:

18.02.1.1 National Collegiate Championship. A National Collegiate Championship for a particular sport is postseason competition conducted by the Association for eligible student-athletes and teams of active member institutions to determine the NCAA champion in that sport for all divisions that do not have a separate division championship in that sport. A National Collegiate Championship is established or continued in accordance with the criteria set forth in Bylaws 18.2.3 and 18.2.4.
18.2.1 National Collegiate Championship. A National Collegiate Championship for which any active member in good standing is eligible (per Bylaw 20.8) may be established by action of all three divisions acting through each division’s governance structure, subject to the requirements, standards and conditions regarding the required number of members sponsoring the sport as prescribed in this bylaw. (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97)
18.2.2 Division Championship. A division championship in a particular sport may be established by a majority vote of all members of that division present and voting at an annual Convention subject to the requirements, standards and conditions regarding the required number of members sponsoring the sport as prescribed in this bylaw. (Revised: 1/9/96 effective 8/1/97)
18.2.5 Establishment of Single Championship in Sport. If only one championship is established or continued in accordance with Bylaws 18.2.3 and 18.2.4, it shall be a National Collegiate Championship for which any active member institution in good standing can be eligible.
18.2.6 Establishment of Two Championships in Sport. If a National Collegiate Championship and one division championship exist in the same sport, only the members of the division sponsoring the division championship may participate in the division championship, and that division’s membership may not participate in the National Collegiate Championship in that sport.
18.2.7 Establishment of Three Championships in Sport. If a National Collegiate Championship and two division championships exist in the same sport, the National Collegiate Championship automatically shall become a division championship for the remaining division that does not sponsor a division championship in that sport.

20.4.1.1 Classification of a Sport in Division I. A member institution may petition to be classified in Division I in any one men’s sport, other than football or basketball, and in any one women’s sport, other than basketball, and in any single sport in which the only NCAA championships opportunity is the National Collegiate Championship. (Revised: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94)
20.4.1.2 Women’s Multidivision-Classification Limitation. A member institution that has its women’s program classified in a division other than its membership division (per Bylaw 20.1.1.1) shall not be eligible to petition for the multidivision-classification opportunities available to a women’s program that is classified in the same division as the institution’s men’s program.
20.4.1.3 National Collegiate Championship. A member institution may petition to be classified in a division other than its membership division in a single sport in which the only NCAA championships opportunity is a National Collegiate Championship for which all divisions are eligible. (Adopted: 1/10/91, Revised: 1/10/92)

18.5.1 Division Championship. To be eligible for automatic qualification into any Division III championship, a conference shall meet the requirements set forth in Bylaw 31.3.4. (Revised: 1/7/06)
18.5.2 National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification into any National Collegiate Championship, a conference shall: (Adopted: 1/7/06)
(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division; and
(b) Meet all applicable requirements for conference automatic qualification into any National Collegiate Championship
as set forth in Bylaw 31.3.4.

Seems the applicable section is 18.2.6 for an NCC. But we also have that nobody can play up to D-II in 20.4.1.1

Howver, reading the language I THINK you can do this:
D-I Divisional Championship
D-II/III NCC

Schools that currently play up via 20.4.1.1 could continue to play in the D-I Championship. Everyone else in D-II/III can play in the NCC.

If you get an NCC then the criteria for an AQ is 6 members, not 7. Then the NE10 would qualify for an AQ, which, Josh, I think re-kills Pool B

We all know how D-III selects the field for the championship, but what if the NCC uses D-II rules??? This will drive Webb nuts!

31.3.1 Size of Championships Fields. The size of all NCAA championships fields shall be established by the Championships Committee to provide for efficient management of the events, adequate NCAA championship opportunities relative to the nationwide quality of competition and sound economic administration of the financial resources of the Association and its championships. (Revised: 8/13/93, 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97)
31.3.2 Selection Decisions of Sports Committees. The determination of sites, selection of teams or individuals, or their site assignment in championships competition made by a governing sports committee (or a designated subcommittee) may not be appealed.
31.3.3 Criteria for Selection of Participants. The following criteria shall be employed by a governing sports committee in selecting participants for NCAA championships competition, and a governing sports committee that wishes to use additional criteria must obtain Championships Committee approval before doing so:
(a) Won-lost record;
(b) Strength of schedule;
(c) Availability of student-athletes for NCAA championships (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06); and
(d) Nullification. (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
31.3.5 S election of Balance of Championship Field. Once the official representative(s) of each qualifying conference is determined, the governing sports committee responsible for selection of the balance of the championship field shall consider objectively and without prejudice the competitive records of all other eligible student-athletes and teams (including representatives of the other members of the conferences receiving automatic qualification). To the best of its ability, the committee shall select the most highly qualified individuals and teams to complete the championship field in accordance with the regional structure, if any, approved for the particular championship.

[NUProf]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

If you get an NCC then the criteria for an AQ is 6 members, not 7. Then the NE10 would qualify for an AQ, which, Josh, I think re-kills Pool B

However, if we went this route, then St. As and St. Ms would not be kicked out of the ECAC East - they might choose to leave, but they wouldn't have to leave. That would leave 9 teams in Pool B (5 ECAC W and 4 NE 10s) which should be enough to un-re-kill Pool B. This makes so much sense, it could never happen.

[joecct]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

However, if we went this route, then St. As and St. Ms would not be kicked out of the ECAC East - they might choose to leave, but they wouldn't have to leave. That would leave 9 teams in Pool B (5 ECAC W and 4 NE 10s) which should be enough to un-re-kill Pool B. This makes so much sense, it could never happen.

Would the Saints want to be a little fish in the Norwich pond or a big fish in their own pond????

Does anyone out there know if an NCC for D-II/III is being discussed?????

[cooperalls]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

The only thing I had heard was supposed to be discussed this month was whether or not DII's would be eligible for National Championship and D3 Conference play. I heard the West schools were all against it because it would because it would screw up the ratio and favor the East. Good to know that Coaches want to help grow the sport and get make it more competitive when all they care about is themselves and not the game itself since the pool of college teams seem to be shrinking from year to year.

Would the Saints want to be a little fish in the Norwich pond or a big fish in their own pond????

Does anyone out there know if an NCC for D-II/III is being discussed?????

[cooperalls]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

They say it is money but they will come up with it somehow you know and it I know it. Foundations and Development Offices, alumni, and parents will come to the rescue when it comes to playing in the National Championship Tournament so the excuse of money does not apply because this is hockey and we have all paid a lot of money to play as kids all the way through highschool, Juniors, and college a few more bucks isn't going to matter now that they are in college.

Not really necessary, I don't think. The takeaway is the "access ratio" would be 66 teams securing 8 AQs, or 8.25. So for every 8.25 teams, there would be one Pool B bid. Whether or not the NCAA is willing to give the 0.25 as a friendly rounding would determine if it would take 3 or 4 DII teams + the ECAC-West to secure a Pool B bid.



No. Because until Adrian came along, that "great record" part wasn't a part of the MCHA discussion. It's a fairly recent development that the MCHA has even been in the discussion at all. Because the NE10 would be a smaller conference, one of two things would happen making that unlikely. Either they would play a highly insular schedule (think 4 games each against 5 other teams) or would play against the stiff competition. Maybe if they could get most NC games against NE schools or MASCAC schools, there would be a chance, but frankly, you might see the same lack of desire to schedule them in NC games as the MCHA experiences out west.



Money.



Money. Wisconsin and Boston College have slightly larger athletic department revenues than SUNY Morrisville an UW Eau Claire.

Honestly, the quadratic equation is much more straightforward than the D3 selection process. Nobody outside of the NCAA is opposed to changing the rules of the tournament bracket. So either schools need to start lobbying the NCAA or leave if they want it changed.



It's June. Not exactly a lot of hockey going on. Have to pass the time somehow.

[Josh Carey]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

The only thing I had heard was supposed to be discussed this month was whether or not DII's would be eligible for National Championship and D3 Conference play. I heard the West schools were all against it because it would because it would screw up the ratio and favor the East. Good to know that Coaches want to help grow the sport and get make it more competitive when all they care about is themselves and not the game itself since the pool of college teams seem to be shrinking from year to year.

We're really going to crucify coaches for looking out for their own programs? Seems like that's their job. In fact, in 2009, Plattsburgh should have voluntarily lost the SUNYAC Finals to Oswego, allowing both teams to make the NCAA Tournament. Good to know Bob Emery wants to help grow the SUNYAC and get it more competitive when all he cares about is himself and not the conference itself since the pool of competitive SUNYAC teams seem to be shrinking from year to year.

They say it is money but they will come up with it somehow you know and it I know it. Foundations and Development Offices, alumni, and parents will come to the rescue when it comes to playing in the National Championship Tournament so the excuse of money does not apply because this is hockey and we have all paid a lot of money to play as kids all the way through highschool, Juniors, and college a few more bucks isn't going to matter now that they are in college.

It's the NCAA with the money issues. They're the ones who put on the championships.

[hawkhockey]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Would the Saints want to be a little fish in the Norwich pond or a big fish in their own pond????

Does anyone out there know if an NCC for D-II/III is being discussed?????

my sense is that thet would want to be in a league where there is the best competition.Norwich pond=ECACE?

[LtPowers]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

My concern is how the NCAA can legislate that 14 D-II schools play in the D-I championship and 6 D-II schools play in the D2/3 championship. I've never seen a division split before, but I guess there is a first time.

It's not a division split because the D-II schools competing for the D-I championship are playing D-I hockey. They're playups, not D-II programs playing D-I schedules.


Powers &8^]

[NUProf]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

It's not a division split because the D-II schools competing for the D-I championship are playing D-I hockey. They're playups, not D-II programs playing D-I schedules.


Powers &8^]

Just like the DIII schools that are playing DI are doing. If DII is "split", so is DIII

[joecct]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Just like the DIII schools that are playing DI are doing. If DII is "split", so is DIII

I think we've put this one to bed, but D-III's can't play down. 6 D-II's are, while 14 or so are playing up.

The solution seems to be a National Collegiate Championship for D-II/III schools. Anyone know if there is legislation in the works?????

[hawkhockey]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

According t a ECACE head coach,he received official notification that the 2010-2011 season is the last year of the Interlock with the NESCAC.The ECAC is scheduling a meeting for all ECAC coaches AND Athletic Directors for thr second or third week in July to discuss the future in the ECACE

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

According t a ECACE head coach,he received official notification that the 2010-2011 season is the last year of the Interlock with the NESCAC.The ECAC is scheduling a meeting for all ECAC coaches AND Athletic Directors for thr second or third week in July to discuss the future in the ECACE

All the ECAC coaches and ADs? Meaning East, West, and Northeast? Although there's no guarantee that anything will happen, such a meeting at least opens up the possibility of addressing the issues in both the east and west conferences. Are they actually thinking logically here?

[joecct]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

From tiny acorns giant oaks grow...

From today's NCAA nooz

In men’s ice hockey, the proposed legislation would amend Bylaw 14.2.4.2 to specify that for a maximum of one year, participation in organized ice hockey competition will be excepted, provided the competition is sanctioned by United States Ice Hockey or its international counterparts. The extra year, which would be in addition to the grace year already provided by the new organized-competition legislation, would affect only six Division II institutions that do not take part in championship competition. It was brought about by the approval of Proposal No. 2010-11 at the 2010 Convention, which eliminated the fee exception for participation in organized competition prior to initial-collegiate enrollment. The Division II programs that sponsor hockey compete primarily against Division III programs and do not offer athletically related financial aid.