Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

    Originally posted by AFHockeyFan View Post
    I guess I just don't understand the "cost containment" argument. Help me out.
    Try this:

    1.) We are a D-1 institution who wants to offer our student athletes the ability to play varsity hockey while attending this school. It is our intent to provide as many athletic opportunities as is economically feasible. However, given the fact that our resources aren't infinite, we need to place some/all sports in an environment that allows them to compete with an eye towards keeping costs under a certain level. Otherwise, we can't offer those opportunities at all. Some will offer a club level program, others a varsity program in a cost-contained environment.

    2.) We are a D-2 institution that has two options for hockey. Either we can ask our athletes to compete in a division that does not offer any sort of championship opportunity, or we can find an avenue within D-1 that does provide that opportunity. See above argument for the rest....

    See, I was able to do that without flame-throwing. You should try it. Its not a case of some "good accounting" to make it work. Its quite a bit more involved than that. Every institution has finite resources with which to work. Some chose 5,000 seat arenas and fully funded scholarships to the maximum level, often times by limiting the number of sports available to student athletes. (Bentley offers more student athletes the opportunity to play sports than most BCS schools.) Others choose different, equally (more?) legitimate institutional endeavors. Those that choose the latter banded together to provide an opportunity to put forth hockey at the level they saw fit. If you don't like it, I ask you and others one more time (to which I still haven't gotten an answer)...

    If you are so disappointed with the hockey program put forth by most of the AHA institutions, why did your institution decide to join? There was another conference that had schools putting more funding into their programs like you cry about, begging for your institutions to stay, and they instead decided to leave that for the cost containment league. Fully one-third of the AHA is now made up of teams that left a league with "more commitment" to competitive hockey. Perhaps it has been proven that the AHA model is much more sustainable than what you seem to want.

    No one is "satisfied" with being a perennially weak program, but many of us have the ability to keep perspective and have the understanding of why it is that way. In the mean time, we will continue to root for our teams, give what we can ourselves to increase resources, enjoy the upsets when they happen, and dream that maybe someday, just maybe, we can go on the hottest of hot streaks at just the right time of the season.
    Last edited by schiegs; 07-10-2010, 09:55 PM.
    Bentley University Hockey
    On-campus arena: Build it, and they will come...

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

      Originally posted by AFHockeyFan View Post
      Only because they won the conference tournament. A loss, even in the championship game, would have tumbled them out of the Top 16. They were 19th going into the conference tournaments:
      http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/2009/03/p...tor-is-up.html
      Trust me. I remember running the predictors. The only way they made the field was to win the tournament.
      Yeah, and had they flipped their worst non-conference loss (to Quinnipiac in the UConn tournament), they would've been in even losing in the final.

      The truth of the matter is non-conference performance will matter far more for positioning and gaining potential at-large bids than what the bottom half of your league schedule does. Your league is your league. I am fair sure that BC or UNH aren't saying that they want to start their own conference without Merrimack and Providence because those teams are dragging down their RPI.
      UConn -- Clarkson

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

        Also read the D2/D3 board.

        If D2 hockey teams were allowed to play for the D3 title, it might have solved this problem. The last D2 team in the midwest got shafted and had to drop to club status. The 6 D2 teams in the northeast are about to get shafted again it would seem.

        BTW - This whole argument is reminding me of the big city slicker who moves to the country and then complains how there are no city amenities.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

          What I think is an issue is what is rumored to be how the playoffs will work - that the East teams will play down to two and the West teams will play down to two teams so that the AHA tournament will have 2 east and 2 west teams. Granted, I don't believe that has been announced, but the speculation is there.

          I would be surprised if there are 2 east teams in the top 4, even with the scheduling. Certainly there will be one (most likely Sacred Heart). I can accept the way the regular season is scheduled - even though implementation could be better - too many 1 game weekends where it is feasable to cut that down more. It also allows for more non-conference games, which for the teams that have a chance to win the tournament, could help boost their SOS.
          2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
          2008-09 Atlantic Hockey Co-Champions!
          2009-10 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
          2010 Frozen Four participant
          2010-11 Atlantic Hockey Champions!

          Member of the infamous Corner Crew

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

            Originally posted by komey1 View Post
            What I think is an issue is what is rumored to be how the playoffs will work - that the East teams will play down to two and the West teams will play down to two teams so that the AHA tournament will have 2 east and 2 west teams. Granted, I don't believe that has been announced, but the speculation is there.

            I would be surprised if there are 2 east teams in the top 4, even with the scheduling. Certainly there will be one (most likely Sacred Heart). I can accept the way the regular season is scheduled - even though implementation could be better - too many 1 game weekends where it is feasable to cut that down more. It also allows for more non-conference games, which for the teams that have a chance to win the tournament, could help boost their SOS.
            I remain skeptical, barring an actual announcement from the league, that there will be an actual divisional split in the standings.

            As regarding the schedule split, the big problem there is the home/away balance. We all know the scheduling difficulty regarding non-conference home games, which means that a larger number of conference games is practically necessary, and probably won't change for the near future.
            UConn -- Clarkson

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

              Originally posted by kingdobbs View Post
              I am fair sure that BC or UNH aren't saying that they want to start their own conference without Merrimack and Providence because those teams are dragging down their RPI.
              But, UNH probably would be happy if Merrimack left HE, given how much diffculty that Cats have had in North Andover the past few years.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

                Originally posted by schiegs View Post
                If you are so disappointed with the hockey program put forth by most of the AHA institutions, why did your institution decide to join?
                Well, first of all, it's important to point out that we, as fans, had no input, influence, or control over which league RIT joined.

                However, I think when most of us heard "cost-containment league", we thought "Oh, good, a league where we aren't going to get severely out-scholarshipped." We were expecting a league where we were on more even footing because we wouldn't be competing against 18-scholie teams.

                What, perhaps, many of us didn't realize is that several AHA teams fail to provide support for their teams in other ways as well.


                Powers &8^]

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

                  Originally posted by kingdobbs View Post
                  I remain skeptical, barring an actual announcement from the league, that there will be an actual divisional split in the standings.

                  As regarding the schedule split, the big problem there is the home/away balance. We all know the scheduling difficulty regarding non-conference home games, which means that a larger number of conference games is practically necessary, and probably won't change for the near future.
                  I agree there will not likely be a divisional split in the standings. But when playoff seedings, the rumors are that it's possible that the league could decide the 2nd best east team gets a bye in the first round even if they are 5th or 6th in the standings. This is something that has been floated as a possibility. I also think that would be unfair if they do so.

                  I also recognize the necessity of as many league games as there are. Most AHA teams can't get home non-conference games. I think the implementation of the current scheduling arrangement could have been better (assuming the league makes up the schedule).
                  2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                  2008-09 Atlantic Hockey Co-Champions!
                  2009-10 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                  2010 Frozen Four participant
                  2010-11 Atlantic Hockey Champions!

                  Member of the infamous Corner Crew

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

                    Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
                    Well, first of all, it's important to point out that we, as fans, had no input, influence, or control over which league RIT joined.

                    However, I think when most of us heard "cost-containment league", we thought "Oh, good, a league where we aren't going to get severely out-scholarshipped." We were expecting a league where we were on more even footing because we wouldn't be competing against 18-scholie teams.

                    What, perhaps, many of us didn't realize is that several AHA teams fail to provide support for their teams in other ways as well.


                    Powers &8^]
                    And let's be fair - we cannot blame the fans here on USCHO - they support their teams. I'm sure many of you would love to see improvements made by your teams. But as for the schools themselves, who knows.
                    2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                    2008-09 Atlantic Hockey Co-Champions!
                    2009-10 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                    2010 Frozen Four participant
                    2010-11 Atlantic Hockey Champions!

                    Member of the infamous Corner Crew

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

                      Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                      I also recognize the necessity of as many league games as there are. Most AHA teams can't get home non-conference games. I think the implementation of the current scheduling arrangement could have been better (assuming the league makes up the schedule).
                      For sure, it'd be a hell of a lot easier if Air Force were, say, in Syracuse or something.
                      UConn -- Clarkson

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

                        Originally posted by schiegs View Post
                        Try this:

                        1.) We are a D-1 institution who wants to offer our student athletes the ability to play varsity hockey while attending this school. It is our intent to provide as many athletic opportunities as is economically feasible. However, given the fact that our resources aren't infinite, we need to place some/all sports in an environment that allows them to compete with an eye towards keeping costs under a certain level. Otherwise, we can't offer those opportunities at all. Some will offer a club level program, others a varsity program in a cost-contained environment.

                        2.) We are a D-2 institution that has two options for hockey. Either we can ask our athletes to compete in a division that does not offer any sort of championship opportunity, or we can find an avenue within D-1 that does provide that opportunity. See above argument for the rest....

                        See, I was able to do that without flame-throwing. You should try it. Its not a case of some "good accounting" to make it work. Its quite a bit more involved than that. Every institution has finite resources with which to work. Some chose 5,000 seat arenas and fully funded scholarships to the maximum level, often times by limiting the number of sports available to student athletes. (Bentley offers more student athletes the opportunity to play sports than most BCS schools.) Others choose different, equally (more?) legitimate institutional endeavors. Those that choose the latter banded together to provide an opportunity to put forth hockey at the level they saw fit. If you don't like it, I ask you and others one more time (to which I still haven't gotten an answer)...

                        If you are so disappointed with the hockey program put forth by most of the AHA institutions, why did your institution decide to join? There was another conference that had schools putting more funding into their programs like you cry about, begging for your institutions to stay, and they instead decided to leave that for the cost containment league. Fully one-third of the AHA is now made up of teams that left a league with "more commitment" to competitive hockey. Perhaps it has been proven that the AHA model is much more sustainable than what you seem to want.

                        No one is "satisfied" with being a perennially weak program, but many of us have the ability to keep perspective and have the understanding of why it is that way. In the mean time, we will continue to root for our teams, give what we can ourselves to increase resources, enjoy the upsets when they happen, and dream that maybe someday, just maybe, we can go on the hottest of hot streaks at just the right time of the season.
                        I've never seen someone argue so adamantly in favor of the stagnation of progress. The AHA may have started as a "cost containment league" as you keep stating, but things evolve. As teams that joined the AHA outgrow it something will have to give. Either the NCAA restructures so that the teams that no longer wish to have cheaper programs can move to different conferences, or the AHA will have to adapt to keep its growing teams as members. Someone, somewhere, is going to get the short end of the stick. Either the AHA loses out, or the weaker teams within it lose out. Because it certainly doesn't make sense to hold growing teams back purely out of principle.
                        e^x, dx/dy, Janni wants some apple pie

                        Go Tigers.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

                          Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                          What I think is an issue is what is rumored to be how the playoffs will work - that the East teams will play down to two and the West teams will play down to two teams so that the AHA tournament will have 2 east and 2 west teams. Granted, I don't believe that has been announced, but the speculation is there.
                          If that happens, the West teams would be fully justified in forming a new CHA, only this time with close geographic proximity and stable programs. I wonder how much longer a Boston guy is going to run the league for the benefit of the Massachusetts programs. Surely there is someone from west of the Hudson who is capable, especially since the geographic center of the league has shifted far to the west (and is now somewhere around Coudersport, PA, by my calculations).

                          Originally posted by kingdobbs View Post
                          For sure, it'd be a hell of a lot easier if Air Force were, say, in Syracuse or something.
                          The three finalists in the Academy site selection process were Alton, Ill., Lake Geneva, WI and Colorado Springs.

                          Either site would have shortened the commute considerably, but I wouldn't trade the MWC for the MAC.
                          Last edited by AFHockeyFan; 07-11-2010, 06:41 PM.
                          2010-2011 Atlantic Hockey Pick 'Em Champion!
                          2013 Atlantic Hockey Postseason Pick 'Em Champion!
                          Air Force Falcons
                          2007 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA West Regional
                          2008 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA Northeast Regional
                          2009 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA East Regional Final
                          2011 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA East Regional
                          2012 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA Northeast Regional

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

                            Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
                            Well, first of all, it's important to point out that we, as fans, had no input, influence, or control over which league RIT joined.

                            However, I think when most of us heard "cost-containment league", we thought "Oh, good, a league where we aren't going to get severely out-scholarshipped." We were expecting a league where we were on more even footing because we wouldn't be competing against 18-scholie teams.

                            What, perhaps, many of us didn't realize is that several AHA teams fail to provide support for their teams in other ways as well.


                            Powers &8^]
                            "didn't realize" Sounds like the same reason we have so many divorces in this country...
                            Last edited by CornwallAce; 07-11-2010, 06:39 PM. Reason: typo

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

                              Originally posted by CornwallAce View Post
                              This whole argument is reminding me of the big city slicker who moves to the country and then complains how there are no city amenities.
                              I see it more as buying a house in the nicest subdivision you can afford and wondering why some of your neighbors won't get rid of the car that's up on blocks in their front yard because it's "too expensive," not realizing that with just a little effort, everyone's property values would go up.
                              Last edited by AFHockeyFan; 07-11-2010, 06:44 PM.
                              2010-2011 Atlantic Hockey Pick 'Em Champion!
                              2013 Atlantic Hockey Postseason Pick 'Em Champion!
                              Air Force Falcons
                              2007 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA West Regional
                              2008 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA Northeast Regional
                              2009 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA East Regional Final
                              2011 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA East Regional
                              2012 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA Northeast Regional

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

                                Originally posted by kingdobbs View Post
                                For sure, it'd be a hell of a lot easier if Air Force were, say, in Syracuse or something.
                                True.

                                But there are some natural pairings that could make it easier.
                                2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                                2008-09 Atlantic Hockey Co-Champions!
                                2009-10 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                                2010 Frozen Four participant
                                2010-11 Atlantic Hockey Champions!

                                Member of the infamous Corner Crew

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X