Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

    Don't look now, but the NHL playoff stat leaders have a distinct air of education about them. The goal-scoring leader is Michigan's Mike Cammalleri with an eye-opening 12, and in second place with 9 is red-hot Joe Pavelski of Wisconsin; you could argue Pavelski trails Cammalleri only because he has played three fewer games. 20 is the top total in the point category, and that number is held by Jonathan Toews of North Dakota, with Cammalleri in third at 18. Fans of college hockey as a sport must be proud that these players are succeeding at the highest level, much the same way college alums like Toews, Ryan Miller, and Zach Parise were key players in the Olympics.

    Most of these players come from what I think of as a golden era for NHL prospects in college, the very late 90s through the middle of the aughts. Before then, most of the best college hockey players were guys who could scratch out middling careers in the NHL at best; since then, many of the best prospects have fled for Major Junior (see: Kane, Patrick). Teams that rely on pro prospects to fill their rosters, such as Minnesota, are having a much harder time competing in today's environment.

    Is this good, or bad? The importance of college hockey "growing" is often a sticking point in debates about alternative Frozen Four venues or television coverage. Some like college hockey the way it is: four-year players getting degrees, small arenas and crowds, intimacy. Others want it to "grow" and gain new fans, rightly thinking that it is an appealing product.

    None of us want it to shrink. We all want college hockey to thrive, but under what model? Bigger, more fans at Frozen Fours, sold out football stadia, top prospects playing at big-name schools for a year or two? Or is the ideal a 4,000 seat arena with energetic fans and players whose next step is not the NHL but graduate school?

    Or is there room for both? What should college hockey be?
    Jesus Saves

  • #2
    Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

    Toews succeeding on the Canadian team was a surprise, for sure, considering all the other players they had to pick from. but the usa team was mostly ncaa all the way through; with kane being the obvious exception. the only other junior players were callahan, brown, ryan, langenbruner, and gleason.

    even the alternates had a big ncaa presence... scuderi, hainsey, goligoski, carle, oshie, gionta. and that doesnt even count martin and komisarek who withdrew with injury. I dont think this was in anyway a political move in protecting the ncaa, but it certainly didnt hurt to have such a profound representation.

    anyway, imo, as far as why NCAA may be losing out on pro prospects to major junior has little to do with the size of college hockey, and a lot to do with the reputation of the sport as not conducive to NHL success. factors like season length, rules differences (fighting, icing, cages), and the whole amateur status thing will always sway recruits who don't think the education is worth the gamble.

    the NCAA can passively counteract this by having the above players continue to shine and take the stigma away from some of the perceived differences, or they can actively counteract the Canadian leagues by becoming more like them. which i believe was the initiative in bringing in paul kelly.

    the other thing(s) the USA needs to do is protect their own and bring kids like the next cam fowler, john carlson, and pat kane back to NCAA; while continuing to scour canada and find the next Toews, Turris, or Cammalleri
    “Unless you’re Boston College, you don’t get here every year.”

    Pinhead Nation: "gone" but not forgotten

    Originally posted by shrader
    Admin, do you still hate BC? If not, will darin and MAV ever be freed? If you do still hate BC, why is SteveF allowed to post?
    Hockey East Champions: 1987, 1990, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012
    National Champions: 1949, 2001, 2008, 2010, 2012

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

      Originally posted by SteveF View Post
      Toews succeeding on the Canadian team was a surprise, for sure, ....
      If NHL players continue to be allowed to play in Olympics I wouldn't be supprised if next Olympics he is the captain of the Canadian Olympic team.
      "For me, college hockey was obviously the best step I could have taken to get to the next level." - Jonathan Toews, North Dakota/Chicago Blackhawks

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

        College Hockey needs to expand, hockey has been growing tremendously at the high school level in the US for many years now. But the current definiton of Title IX has created a bottleneck of stagnation for any amount of expansion coming from the high school levels. If there was some sort of a modification clause to dissolve the bottleneck then you would see rapid growth/expansion in US college hockey.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

          Crosby and alex the great are good players but I would take Toews or Kane anyday over them two. Imho Toews is the best player in the nhl right now! And it does reflect on college hockey and is great for everyteam in the ncaa! College hockey players playing in the nhl are making themselfs known more than ever right now. See toews, parise, miller, rafalski (sp) and all the other stars from the olympic games.
          Fighting Sioux Hockey

          Waiting the arrival of the ZANE!!!!!

          Superman Wears Evan Trupp pj's to bed!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

            Does college hockey need the best players? It seems that the very best prospects are going to major junior. I question whether all college hockey fans want the sport to get "more" prospects and fans. Many seem happy with college hockey as it is. Pro prospects don't stay for four years, they don't take school as seriously, and they have greater potential for regulation baggage.

            People will sometimes complain about the largesse of college football and basketball; I enjoy college hockey's relative accessibility.

            A common thread in the debates regarding the Ford Field venue was that some people did not want college hockey to grow; they were happy with it the size that it was. I disagreed with the sentiment, but I see where they are coming from. Why bother making the sport bigger when it is good the way it is? Ford Field was bigger, and for some people that meant worse views and a less enjoyable experience.
            Jesus Saves

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

              College hockey doesn't need to change, but it would be great if more teams were added. More fans, more television coverage, there was almost no discussion about the teams during the frozen four, in between periods they showed sportscenter, and the selection show was and is a joke. The expansion of college hockey doesn't necessarily mean more frozn fours on football fields, that was a bad idea, and I hope that they do not do it again. As for arena size, Cameron Indoor seats under 10,000 and it housed the best basketball team in the country. The harder it is to get a ticket the more presitigious a program appears to be. And regarding talented players, I personally think that watching a prospective NHL superstar play is more exciting than watching some kid that will not make professional leagues. I enjoy checking up on players that went to the school that I support, and I gain a sense of pride when one of them is doing well in the NHL. If college hockey does start bringing in a better class of player though, two years minimum before the pros should be required.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

                Originally posted by bearsFan93 View Post
                ...the selection show was and is a joke.
                Who the hell cares? Seems to me all the hoopla over the bouncy-ball selection and the subsequent shows are the result of media pumping up their product so that they can beat it like a dead horse for ratings. Fine with me if that stays away from hockey.

                Originally posted by bearsFan93 View Post
                The expansion of college hockey doesn't necessarily mean more frozn fours on football fields
                Not necessarily FFs on football fields, but those are the kinds of gimmicks you can expect if NCAA hockey is pushed as a product to a larger audience.

                Originally posted by bearsFan93 View Post
                And regarding talented players, I personally think that watching a prospective NHL superstar play is more exciting than watching some kid that will not make professional leagues
                You are certainly not alone in that opinion. But for me, the highest level of play is not why I fell in love with college hockey, and it's not the reason I have a set schedule for every Friday and Saturday night Oct-April. If I wanted to watch the best players around, I'd watch the NHL. I don't.

                Originally posted by bearsFan93 View Post
                If college hockey does start bringing in a better class of player though, two years minimum before the pros should be required.
                Can't have it both ways. If that type of regulation were (somehow) enacted, you would see less of the top-end talent. More early round draft picks in the NCAA means more 1 or 2 and done players, across the board. Not just at the Minnesotas and the Wisconsins.

                This really does seem to be an ideological divide among fans, and has really developed in the past decade as college hockey has begun shifting toward becoming a professional feeder league, a la NCAA basketball. My position on the subject has been consistently obvious over the past 5 years.
                Last edited by Stauber1; 05-13-2010, 09:25 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

                  Originally posted by SoCalSiouxFan View Post
                  If NHL players continue to be allowed to play in Olympics I wouldn't be supprised if next Olympics he is the captain of the Canadian Olympic team.
                  Never going to happen. There is this overrated star who plays in Pittsburgh who is the next coming of Jesus who will be the Captain of team Canada for years to come.
                  Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                  dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                  wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

                    I would love for college hockey to grow, however, one big thing I didn't see mentioned is the rookie max cap salary.

                    Before, a rookie could up his pay by staying another year or two in college, shining brightly, and then going.

                    Now, when a team offers the max (doesn't matter if that means that guy plays in the minors for a year, or two, or forever), that player flees. There's no point in playing the college game anymore once you hit the max.

                    While it's good for the pro game, it does hurt the college game.
                    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

                      Originally posted by Stauber1 View Post
                      But for me, the highest level of play is not why I fell in love with college hockey, and it's not the reason I have a set schedule for every Friday and Saturday night Oct-April. If I wanted to watch the best players around, I'd watch the NHL. I don't.
                      Right on.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

                        Originally posted by bearsFan93 View Post
                        I personally think that watching a prospective NHL superstar play is more exciting than watching some kid that will not make professional leagues. I enjoy checking up on players that went to the school that I support, and I gain a sense of pride when one of them is doing well in the NHL. If college hockey does start bringing in a better class of player though, two years minimum before the pros should be required.
                        I disagree with the first sentence here . . .

                        I look back most recently to James van Riemsdyk, who's doing pretty well in his rookie season with Philly. He played for UNH for two years, then went pro.

                        Exciting with the puck on his stick, and a very creative offensive player, he always struck me as lazy in the neutral and defensive zone, and this drove me nuts. On top of that, you could tell he often tried to protect his body (not that I blame him) and refused to his skating / strength to his advantage along the boards (again, I think JvR I think lazy). As the #1 overall pick, there was no doubt he was going pro.

                        Contrast that to recent Hobey Baker Finalist (and I maintain he should have won) Bobby Butler. Butler signed an amateur contract with Ottowa after UNH's season ended, but before that, he was totally undrafted. Leading the NCAA in goals last year, Butler was a true two-way player; there were games that he single handedly turned around with his work along the boards, he was the top UNH PK-er, etc etc etc . . . he couldn't measure up to JvR on talent alone, but his work ethic made him exciting to watch.

                        I've been following college hockey since 1999 (what a year to start being a UNH fan), and I've learned it's about the laundry, not the player. For college hockey, IMO, it's about representing your school well, by playing hard. When a player goes pro and does well, it's just a bonus.

                        I don't think the two year minimum would work; too many players, and too many teams, would balk at the idea of being forced to wait. Too many more chances for injuries, and if a team wants to call up a player in April after his first year, if he meets or exceeds expectations, they will want to be able to. Imposing a 2-year minimum, combined with the other rule differences, will push more players towards Major-Junior, I betcha . . .
                        I haven't been on here in a year...
                        Now I'm a dad. Holy crap.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

                          No. No. Next?
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

                            We should be more worried about keeping the programs we already have and getting them to a near-profitable status before we think about expanding. Iona, Fairfield, and Wayne State have recently folded their programs, so I don't think expansion is the answer. Heck, we lost a conference! We also almost lost Alabama-Huntsville because of that conference fold. Let's build the programs we have now, get them even more popular, and then try to expand.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

                              While I would like to see college hockey grow in the number of teams playing the sport, and really think it's important that we don't contract, I most definitely would hate to see it turn into bouncy-ball lite.

                              Originally posted by Stauber1 View Post
                              Seems to me all the hoopla over the bouncy-ball selection and the subsequent shows are the result of media pumping up their product so that they can beat it like a dead horse for ratings.
                              And people eat it up. I've never understood that.

                              Originally posted by Stauber1 View Post
                              Not necessarily FFs on football fields, but those are the kinds of gimmicks you can expect if NCAA hockey is pushed as a product to a larger audience.
                              I've always considered it a joke that people would flock to a basketball game played in an arena so large that there's no way you could see the game from half the seats. And then they went and tried it for hockey.

                              Originally posted by bearsFan93 View Post
                              I personally think that watching a prospective NHL superstar play is more exciting than watching some kid that will not make professional leagues
                              Originally posted by Stauber1 View Post
                              You are certainly not alone in that opinion. But for me, the highest level of play is not why I fell in love with college hockey, and it's not the reason I have a set schedule for every Friday and Saturday night Oct-April. If I wanted to watch the best players around, I'd watch the NHL. I don't.
                              .
                              Ditto here, too. Season tickets both Friday and Saturday night. Yet it's not the skill level that draws me. The level of hockey in the NHL is, obviously, in another galaxy compared to college, yet I rarely watch it. The player I most appreciate watching is the fourth year guy that I barely noticed as a frehman who turns into a solid player at the end.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X