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JB
03-30-2010, 04:01 PM
The question is - how does Umile lure him away from Harvard?

My gut tells me, UNH could get Foley with nothing more than an open position and a phone call from Umile. Particularly, if in private that phone call indicated how long it might be until the Head Coaching job would be open.

Foley has often spoken very highly of Umile and of his relationship to Umile. That indicates to me it wouldn't take much. Having seen both Blasi and Foley talk and heard Umile talk of both (Umile wanted Blasi to come to UNH to play - and in Blasi words it oh so close to happening) I think there are some very favorable comparisons.

Lastly like all the rest of us an appropriate level of pay but I don't think that would be the problem.

Chuck Murray
03-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Also I think that was the year (1972) Ron Anderson was signed by the Bruins as the first college player signed by an NHL team.

Red Berenson finished his Michigan playing career in 1962, and was playing with the Montreal Canadiens before the end of that very same season. I know Ken Dryden was playing for the Habs around Spring 1971 (much to my chagrin :( :mad: :( ) so I doubt Anderson was anywhere close to the first.

irishfan85
03-30-2010, 04:14 PM
[QUOTE=Chuck Murray;4731229]It's about an hour from the Tobin Bridge to the UNH campus - going in the opposite direction of most of the traffic. It's really not as if this would be an either/or proposition. I'd be shocked if (knowing what's out there about him in the public domain) Foley said "no" just because it was a long commute. If he did - s'OK. Then he wouldn't have been the right candidate to begin with. QUOTE]

Chuck, I respect all your opinions. However, it is more than an hour from the Tobin Bridge to the UNH campus and I'm sure Foley doesn't live on the Tobin Bridge. All my point is/was, that some people really enjoy being in the city, especially young people. I'm not here to suggest that is Foley or that Foley would not come to UNH.

My bigger point was that it is very rare in the college hockey world you see an assistant getting fired. This isn't college football.

I respect Coach Umile and the UNH program and believe some young blood from an assistant like Collins, Saviano, Foley would do a world of good.

Chuck Murray
03-30-2010, 04:40 PM
[QUOTE=Chuck Murray;4731229]Chuck, I respect all your opinions. However, it is more than an hour from the Tobin Bridge to the UNH campus and I'm sure Foley doesn't live on the Tobin Bridge. All my point is/was, that some people really enjoy being in the city, especially young people. I'm not here to suggest that is Foley or that Foley would not come to UNH.

My bigger point was that it is very rare in the college hockey world you see an assistant getting fired. This isn't college football.

Your latter point is well-taken. And Umile's loyalty to his assistants is a point I stated prominently in the open letter. It remains a significant hurdle.

As to your initial point ... as someone who made that trek for almost 15 years, and never got a speeding ticket while doing it ... as long as it is against the flow of traffic, it is just over 60 miles and very doable. :)

And my point is that if a young aspiring assistant hockey coach were to live in the shadow of the Tobin Bridge and enjoys the big-city lifestyle ... having an office up in Durham doesn't mean he has to make drastic changes to his lifestyle that he probably hasn't already made while working in Cambridge.

http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/mice/coaches/foley_patrick

If it's a stumbling block, then we probably didn't have the right guy anyway.

But I am with JB on this one. I strongly suspect all it takes is a phone call, and suitable salary arrangements. I'm not sure you can ever give anyone an ironclad assurance about "succession to the throne" ... but you can make it very clear that he's in the pole position, and IF he does everything expected of him in his new role, he would receive favorable consideration, and I'm sure that's all someone like Foley would expect anyway. I'm sure he has nothing better than that right now from Coach Donato, who is 20 yrs. Umile's junior.

JB
03-30-2010, 04:45 PM
But I am with JB on this one. I strongly suspect all it takes is a phone call, and suitable salary arrangements. I'm not sure you can ever give anyone an ironclad assurance about "succession to the throne" ... but you can make it very clear that he's in the pole position, and IF he does everything expected of him in his new role, he would receive favorable consideration, and I'm sure that's all someone like Foley would expect anyway. I'm sure he has nothing better than that right now from Coach Donato, who is 20 yrs. Umile's junior.

I doubt Foley even has that from Harvard and probably would not need that from UNH.

I am sure he understands the way "it" works, you have to be a dolt not to.

boblav1
03-30-2010, 06:23 PM
Does Teddy Donato have plans to move ahead elsewhere anytime soon that I've missed out on? :confused: I know I've been away from regular board duty, but I was unaware that Donato (who is not ALL that much older than Foley) was contemplating retirement, or a move to the pros anytime soon?
I wonder if Donato is feeling any heat at Harvard? They have struggled the past four years after a couple of NCAA appearances in his first two years as coach.

Carmine Scarpaglia
03-30-2010, 06:29 PM
I wonder if Donato is feeling any heat at Harvard? They have struggled the past four years after a couple of NCAA appearances in his first two years as coach.

I would hope so. He is hitting some recruiting targets and yet the team looks miserable on the ice.

BobF
03-30-2010, 07:02 PM
I wonder if Donato is feeling any heat at Harvard? They have struggled the past four years after a couple of NCAA appearances in his first two years as coach.

Well to chime in for a moment on Mr. Donato (and hello Chuck), I work at Harvard and to date thus far the comments coming out are in support of Ted. However IMHO he has been a disappointment. Admittedly I am a Maine fan, but Donato was brought in because seemingly Mazzoleni could not win a NCAA tournament game and there were some other issues. Harvard brings in highly regarded recruits each year, but the performance on the ice does not match the caliber of the talent.

I'd say Ted has one more season to get Harvard back on top. They have seen Yale, and Princeton join Cornell at the top of the ECAC the last two years and make the tourney, for Harvard that is never a good thing!

Chuck Murray
03-31-2010, 07:38 AM
I'd say Ted has one more season to get Harvard back on top. They have seen Yale, and Princeton join Cornell at the top of the ECAC the last two years and make the tourney, for Harvard that is never a good thing!

If true (and no reason to think it isn't) ... this is one more reason for Coach Foley to seriously consider an invite from Coach Umile if/when it comes.

It would be an enormous gamble for Harvard to hire a young assistant from a "failed" predecessor's regime as head coach. You gotta think that in all likelihood, any newcomer at Harvard would be given wide latitude to bring in his own people. I could see the current assistants getting an opportunity to interview for retaining their previous positions - and I wouldn't discount Foley making the necessary impression on the new head coach to stay on board.

But I do think this puts the whole "grooming him as HU head coach" theory in its proper perspective. Now if Donato bounces back, and gets another few years of results like his first two seasons, then takes an administrative or coaching job in the pros ... that might give Foley more time to understudy, and be a more logical, compelling AND experienced candidate for Harvard.

That's a lot of "IF's" though ... and IF a similar understudy's job at UNH were to become available, he'd at worst have the same prospects down the line, but working under a coach with more stability, and someone who has been able to get better results than Donato out of talent when it's been produced for him through his top past recruiters (i.e. McCloskey).

Speaking of which (and at the risk of treading over well-trodden ground from past debates) ... whither McCloskey in the future of the UNH program? Set for life as the UNH Women's head coach?? Available to switch over if/when his former boss decides to hang 'em up??? Has anything changed on this? :confused:

JB
03-31-2010, 07:43 AM
Speaking of which (and at the risk of treading over well-trodden ground from past debates) ... whither McCloskey in the future of the UNH program? Set for life as the UNH Women's head coach?? Available to switch over if/when his former boss decides to hang 'em up??? Has anything changed on this? :confused:

Most information is that McCloskey is no longer interested in the men's head coach job. Loves the women's side for a bunch of reasons, and it is less pressure all of the time, so he can have time with family. Also McCloskey is not a spring chicken...

Greg Ambrose
03-31-2010, 07:54 PM
Didn't read this fascinating thread until this morning at work, but had no time to reply. First, I want to welcome back Chuck, whose insights have been missing oh these many years. I ran into him at the last game of the season at the Whit, a miserable night of rain topped up by that miserable OT goal. Glad to see and read you Chuck. And thankfully you still have that well worn Expos hat.

Anyway, I thought it took Chuck a long time to get to the point, but in a nutshell he seemed to be saying that, while it wouldn't be kosher to fire Umile, he should do the next best thing and hire someone who he could designate as a successor. By inference, my take was that Borek and Lassonde are not worthy candidates. That's fortuitous since, as far as I know and have been told, neither one wants the job. After his flame out at LSSU, Borek is content at what he does and Lassonde, he is well respected in hockey circles (not that Scott isn't), and has had a couple of opportunities in the recent past to at least interview for a head job and has turned them down.

Like most posters, I agree that UNH has fallen off in the past few years. Rather than be a true contender for the title, as they were from '97-'03, they are now just a contender to make the tournament. I think we all agree that the drop off is a function of the talent being brought in. When UNH was going great guns, they seemed to thrive on the players who had fallen through the cracks. McCloskey's theory back then was that we go after these guys because we couldn't get the top end kid (his story about Drury is pretty telling in this regard). When this second tier is successful, it would then allow UNH to have a better chance of getting those players who everyone is lusting after. The ironic thing is that when this recruiting philosophy first started to bear fruit, the guy we got was Eddie Caron. How'd that work out?

Now we are at the point where we were in the mid-90's. We are no longer getting the top end kid, have to settle for late bloomers or young kids with some upside to be successful. The problem I see (and this has been discussed at length before) is we are spending too much time on recruiting the top end kids who wind up not coming (Yandle, Bourque, Kolomaitis, Reid), then have to fill holes late with third tier kids. Last summer was a prime example when UNH had to settle for Speelman and Block after Bourque and Dries were gone. Setting aside off-ice stuff (tough to do with Dries), how would the latter two have looked in a UNH uniform this past year?

I think it would be awfully hard for Umile to can either assistant, he is a very loyal guy (a very good quality BTW). But let's assume, for arguments sake, he does. Some of the names I have seen on this thread are almost laughable (i.e Tim Walsh, a high school coach). But the one name that seems to come up most often is Pat Foley. My only question is why would you want to take someone from a program that has continued to go down hill since he got there. Pat just finished his third year at Harvard and, believe me when I tell you, they are awful. I'm not sure Harvard's demise is based on a misguided judgment of talent, or that the coaches can't coach the talent when it gets there. But whichever choice you make, it is a huge black mark on the coaching staff. Anyone who wants to bring in someone from a failed program just because they have a UNH pedigree is shortsighted. Pat may bleed blue and white (not sure of that), but at this point he has either failed as a recruiter or as a coach. And remember, any assistant will be called upon to do both.

There has been a lot of discussion the last couple of days about BC's firing of basketball coach Al Skinner. Although relatively successful in the past, the last couple of years have not been the best for BC and the theory is that, with his top recruiter gone, BC wasn't bringing in the the same level of talent and, thus, the drop off. I think Umile compares favorably here. No question we don't have the talent that we used to have but somehow Umile has been able to find a way for UNH to remain competitive. Okay, no FF, but 3 league titles in 4 years, continued NCAA bids, and in the final eight the last two years. Last October in Wisconsin, when UNH was flailing around for 120 minutes, I remarked that this might be the worst collection of forwards Umile has had in his 20 years. But somehow he found a way to make them compete.

Although it would be awfully difficult for Umile to can either Borek or Lassonde, I agree that a critical analysis of where the program is now compared to, say, 2002, and where it is headed over the next 10 years is in order. Where that analysis leads, I don't know, but I do think it needs to be done.

Chuck Murray
03-31-2010, 11:17 PM
Didn't read this fascinating thread until this morning at work, but had no time to reply. First, I want to welcome back Chuck, whose insights have been missing oh these many years. I ran into him at the last game of the season at the Whit, a miserable night of rain topped up by that miserable OT goal. Glad to see and read you Chuck. And thankfully you still have that well worn Expos hat.

It was good to see you folks too, Greg. I've been around for maybe a half dozen games a year in recent seasons, due to some other commitments. And the Expos hat is definitely on life support these days. :(


Anyway, I thought it took Chuck a long time to get to the point ...

Some things never change, mon ami. :D


... but in a nutshell he seemed to be saying that, while it wouldn't be kosher to fire Umile, he should do the next best thing and hire someone who he could designate as a successor. By inference, my take was that Borek and Lassonde are not worthy candidates. That's fortuitous since, as far as I know and have been told, neither one wants the job. After his flame out at LSSU, Borek is content at what he does and Lassonde, he is well respected in hockey circles (not that Scott isn't), and has had a couple of opportunities in the recent past to at least interview for a head job and has turned them down.

Fortuitous indeed. I have a lot of respect for what Lassonde has done over the years. Borek's only *fault* in my mind (and it's arguably not a fault) is that his recruiting simply hasn't been up to McCloskey's standards.


The ironic thing is that when this recruiting philosophy first started to bear fruit, the guy we got was Eddie Caron. How'd that work out?

Kinda like Travis Banga ... :eek: :( :mad:


But the one name that seems to come up most often is Pat Foley. My only question is why would you want to take someone from a program that has continued to go down hill since he got there. Pat just finished his third year at Harvard and, believe me when I tell you, they are awful. I'm not sure Harvard's demise is based on a misguided judgment of talent, or that the coaches can't coach the talent when it gets there. But whichever choice you make, it is a huge black mark on the coaching staff. Anyone who wants to bring in someone from a failed program just because they have a UNH pedigree is shortsighted. Pat may bleed blue and white (not sure of that), but at this point he has either failed as a recruiter or as a coach. And remember, any assistant will be called upon to do both.

Interestingly enough, Coach Umile's time at Providence could be classified in almost identical terms. The year before he got there, they won the inaugural HE Tourney, in large part due to a kid named Terreri. But the next three seasons under former UNH teammate Mike McShane, the Friars has a similar drop-off. Granted, UNH was in even worse shape around that time ... but if UNH had considered Umile's time as a "huge black mark" against him then, perhaps the last 20+ seasons in Durham might have been a tad different. And from a "bird in the hand" standpoint, there's a very good chance fate may have been FAR more cruel to UNH had Umile never been hired here.

So I'm unshaken about any impressions that might be lumped on Coach Foley along these lines. He's still learning, and under Coach Umile, he'd be working under someone who's done a fair bit more than his current boss behind the bench. Given time, I'm confident he's capable of growing into the top job.


Although it would be awfully difficult for Umile to can either Borek or Lassonde, I agree that a critical analysis of where the program is now compared to, say, 2002, and where it is headed over the next 10 years is in order. Where that analysis leads, I don't know, but I do think it needs to be done.

I think we are in complete agreement here. :)

freak
04-01-2010, 01:44 AM
Speaking of which (and at the risk of treading over well-trodden ground from past debates) ... whither McCloskey in the future of the UNH program? Set for life as the UNH Women's head coach?? Available to switch over if/when his former boss decides to hang 'em up??? Has anything changed on this? :confused:

IIRC, Coach Mac has said that the Women's job is his last. As mentioned, he's not a youngster either.

Chuck Murray
04-01-2010, 07:56 AM
Most information is that McCloskey is no longer interested in the men's head coach job. Loves the women's side for a bunch of reasons, and it is less pressure all of the time, so he can have time with family.

As someone who has coached youth sports extensively for both genders, it's hard for me to question McCloskey on his current career choices; both "sides" have their pluses and minuses, and everyone's take is a little different, I'm sure ... but I'd be an enormous hypocrite to disagree with his current take, if it is indeed accurately reflected in your post, JB.

On a slightly different angle ... one of our UNH/WIS fans-in-absentia brought the following bit from yesterday's Portsmouth Herald to my attention:

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20100331-OPINION-3310352

I'm not sure what to make of this ... I do recall that a number of years ago, UNH used to do an alumni hockey game at The Whitt (in the summer?), and somewhere along the way I think they moved away from it. But if there are alums who want to be an active part in creating a UNH hockey legacy, and that's not being optimized ... that strikes me as a BIG concern, and a very big potential positive source of energy that's not being optimized.

I can't imagine why anyone associated with UNH hockey wouldn't be eager to create some synergy for their program - present and future - by involving the people that contributed to the program in the past?

Maybe there is a reason ... but not even responding?? :confused: What's up with that??? :confused: :confused:

JB
04-01-2010, 09:54 AM
I thought there was an alumni game just last August. I seem to recall that I wanted to go but somebody (my wife) had us down for other plans. I generally claim Oct to the beginning of April as my "hockey" time so I try not to complain much about stuff the other 6 months.

If I sent a letter to Coach Umile, I wouldn't expect a reply. I would be very happy if I got one. I figure he gets plenty of mail that he need to do something with, so a reply to a guy he doesn't know might fall of the radar.

PSW
04-01-2010, 10:01 AM
The dynamics of recruiting has changed over the years. Some of these changes will include: 1) the geography where player are coming from….not just New England, Canada, Minnesota, ….now California, Florida, Maryland etc. 2) Parents and family advisors…..Parents are a lot more sophisticated and involved in the process. Even “C” level players have family advisors now 3) The players themselves are more sophifatced in the process and have more information at their touch. –information Technology
All of these changes will have a impact on recruits that UNH had in the past and the recruits they get now and in the future. No change in assistance coaches will overcome this. Borek and Lassonde are excellent coaches. Borek among his peers is known as a knowledgeable, aggressive and hard working recruiter. UNH will continue to get a mix of top quality first round players, diamonds in the rough, late bloomers etc. Umile and staff will keep the program competitive each year. One year they will have a little luck and win a National Championship.

RockTheWhit
04-01-2010, 10:50 AM
Before this season, the team wanted new locker stalls for the locker room at the Whitt. Each stall cost around $2000, so they went to former players and a number of them stepped up to donate a stall (Brickley, Mowers, JVR even). Each stall in the locker room has the name of the player who donated it, and the guy using it got a chance to thank him for his donation. I thought this was a pretty cool show of program solidarity.

Chuck Murray
04-01-2010, 11:22 AM
If I sent a letter to Coach Umile, I wouldn't expect a reply. I would be very happy if I got one. I figure he gets plenty of mail that he need to do something with, so a reply to a guy he doesn't know might fall of the radar.

Ordinarily, I don't disagree. Coming from someone who might not be known to him, I'm sure the reasons to perhaps just bypass a letter or e-mail would be self-explanatory. From my standpoint, God knows I certainly don't expect Coach Umile to jump on USCHO and respond here. It'd be FUN, but ... :)

As to the gentleman who wrote to the Herald earlier this week, I think if you do a little digging, you might find that there is a probable link which may make you think the courtesy of a response would've been warranted.

JMHO ...

Chuck Murray
04-01-2010, 11:33 AM
Oh, and before I forget ... congrats to Bobby Butler (a long-time favorite at the WIS Estate during its "under the radar" years of late) for making it to the final stage of the Hobey competition. With all due respect to the remaining candidates ... I can't think of a more worthy candidate than our guy. :cool:

One can only hope that once Butler's playing days are over, someday we (or our successors on this board and beyond) will be discussing the possibility of him getting involved in a coaching capacity with his alma mater!! :)

((( ... had to tie it in with this somehow ... ;) )))

JB
04-01-2010, 11:39 AM
Before this season, the team wanted new locker stalls for the locker room at the Whitt. Each stall cost around $2000, so they went to former players and a number of them stepped up to donate a stall (Brickley, Mowers, JVR even). Each stall in the locker room has the name of the player who donated it, and the guy using it got a chance to thank him for his donation. I thought this was a pretty cool show of program solidarity.

That is a cool story.




From my standpoint, God knows I certainly don't expect Coach Umile to jump on USCHO and respond here. It'd be FUN, but ...

It would certainly be interesting.



I think if you do a little digging, you might find that there is a probable link which may make you think the courtesy of a response would've been warranted.


If I google it I see - Bob 77 and Bob 52 both of Rye. Gary would be 62 this year so the connection is some relative. Maybe brother?

I have a hard time believing Umile (as loyal as he is, to a fault) not responding to a former teamate as Gary would have been a senior D-man on the same team as Umile sophomore year.