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  • #31
    Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

    Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
    The NE wouldn't take Manhattanville. Competitively, Manhattanville would destroy the NE, and the NE philosophy in recruiting and the like are a bit more laid back, and Manhattanville definitely is not. It would not be a good match.

    Having teams join the MCHA is an intriguing idea. I never thought of that one. Travel could be an issue in some cases, but would the MCHA want more teams?
    Curry and Wentworth are more like Mahattanville than the rest of the ECAC-NE and might consider it.
    Go 'Wick!

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    • #32
      Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

      Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post

      Having teams join the MCHA is an intriguing idea. I never thought of that one. Travel could be an issue in some cases, but would the MCHA want more teams?
      Imagine Neumann traveling to Finlandia, or vice versa. That's +-1,100 miles.

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      • #33
        Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

        Which brings me back to the point I made a couple weeks back....does anyone think the possibility of Neumann having to fold is a possibility now? If the West becomes irrelevant and teams start jumping ship(or trying to), Neumann will be left out on an island with no where to go.

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        • #34
          Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

          Originally posted by altazo View Post
          Imagine Neumann traveling to Finlandia, or vice versa. That's +-1,100 miles.
          I figured it would be something awful, but they could design an unbalanced schedule in which they'd only have to make that trip every other year. Just a random thought. I'd hate to see any more programs lost. Another possibility would be for some of the PA schools which support ACHA programs as though they were varsity programs to move them to NCAA. Scranton others?
          2007-2008 ECAC East/NESCAC Interlock Pick 'em winner
          2007-2008 Last Person Standing Winner,
          2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
          2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

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          • #35
            Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

            To me, the only real feasible solution, at least for the short term, is for the ECAC to shuffle up the geographic divisions a bit to balance out the West and qualify it for an autobid. What would really help this process is for two of the D2 schools to move their athletic programs to D3 status, giving the ECAC a few more cards in the deck to shuffle. I am specifically thinking of St. Mike's and St. Anselm, who already reside in the ECAC East, and in many respects would be better served as institutions by leaving the D2 Northeast 10, a conference in which they are not particularly competitive in most sports. Indeed, here is an article discussing how St. Mike's and Anselm are the only two NE-10 members who limit their athletic scholarships to basketball only. In D3, the Commonwealth or Pilgrim Conferences would seem to be logical fits as overall, non-hockey homes.

            Should the St. Mike's and Anselm move come to fruition, the ECAC would also have the opportunity to balance off the strengths of the divisions a bit (though deciding who goes to the West is still thorny). As others have mentioned, I really don't know what kind of authority, if any, the ECAC has over its hockey playing members, and this is a huge fly in the ointment. But from the standpoint of what would be ideal for D3 hockey, this seems to be a good compromise.

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            • #36
              Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

              Originally posted by NUProf View Post
              I figured it would be something awful, but they could design an unbalanced schedule in which they'd only have to make that trip every other year. Just a random thought. I'd hate to see any more programs lost. Another possibility would be for some of the PA schools which support ACHA programs as though they were varsity programs to move them to NCAA. Scranton others?
              NCAA Div III Hockey has a cult like following at best. The schools who took the hit and went ACHA are probably enjoying quite the financial benefit by not supporting the NCAA which already treats Division III hockey like a step child. This is the handwriting on the wall for the ECAC West and eventually there could come a time when Division III hockey in general is played in one small corner of 2 states further taking it to its cult state of affairs. While Division I hockey continues to thrive division III is nailing its own fate when parody seems fleeting and distance of travel grows. I believe this is a Canary in the cave.

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              • #37
                Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

                Originally posted by ECACST View Post
                I think the awful trip might be the other way unless you are looking for Gas Station Subs and McDonalds as your choice of fine dining. Rye although not in the upstate depressed drink yourself to death no economic development snow belt has one of the highest per capita income levels uniquely nestled between the Lower Hudson River and the Sound Shore of Long Island. Less than 30 miles from NYC. Certainly you have made the trip from Albany to Plattsburgh where you can't find anything for 125 miles but Moose. Rye Playland was the Practice Facility for the New York Rangers for 20 plus years till they were able to build a facility to include both the Nicks and the Rangers on the same location as they are owened by the same. Geez if I had a choice of driving my truck into a tree with my McDee's# 1 in the havens you speak of and playing my games down in god forsaken Rye I would go with your choice.
                This post is the best example of why there should be a written and practical test before anyone can buy a computer, secure a high speed connection, register on a website and post their thoughts for the world to read in perpetuity.....
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                • #38
                  Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

                  Originally posted by ECACST View Post
                  NCAA Div III Hockey has a cult like following at best. The schools who took the hit and went ACHA are probably enjoying quite the financial benefit by not supporting the NCAA which already treats Division III hockey like a step child. This is the handwriting on the wall for the ECAC West and eventually there could come a time when Division III hockey in general is played in one small corner of 2 states further taking it to its cult state of affairs. While Division I hockey continues to thrive division III is nailing its own fate when parody seems fleeting and distance of travel grows. I believe this is a Canary in the cave.
                  D-1 hockey continues to thrive? Really? I guess Wayne State, Fairfield, Iona, and Findlay folding in the last decade, and the whole Bowling Green issue this past summer, well, those were all just figments of my imagination.
                  Last edited by Hammer; 03-09-2010, 11:43 AM.
                  FERRIS STATE UNIVERSITY: 2012 FROZEN FOUR


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                  • #39
                    Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

                    Originally posted by Hammer View Post
                    D-1 hockey continues to thrive? Really? I guess Wayne State, Fairfield, Iona, and Findlay folding in the last decade, and the whole Bowling Green issue this past summer, well, those were all just figments of my imagination.
                    Actually in most of the above examples these programs went belly up from causes that had nothing to do with Hockey. Title 9, and AD's making financial decisions that had nothing to do with on Ice or Hockey.
                    My point was that Division III hockey is in danger while division I hockey is not.
                    ACHA is closing the gap with Div III hockey. Hockey in general appeals to a hard core segment of which alum are the die hards. Sadly I believe if ECAC West goes by by that this is a reflection on the bigger picture.

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                    • #40
                      Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

                      Well, I'll say this: there isn't exactly a line around the block for teams waiting to build arenas and start programs on the D-1 side, and there's a few more in trouble. Unless we are adding programs instead of losing them, you can't say that hockey is thriving by any means. Alabama-Huntsville is going to be in real trouble in a year or two if they don't find a conference. A true BTHC (everyone make yucky faces here) would exacerbate the problem with the smaller schools in Michigan that play D-1 as well.

                      I wouldn't call Division 1 hockey a "thriving" sport by any means, not when you're losing more teams than you're adding over the past decade. "Treading water at best" is more like it.
                      FERRIS STATE UNIVERSITY: 2012 FROZEN FOUR


                      God, that was fun...

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                      • #41
                        Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

                        Originally posted by ECACST View Post
                        Actually in most of the above examples these programs went belly up from causes that had nothing to do with Hockey. Title 9, and AD's making financial decisions that had nothing to do with on Ice or Hockey.
                        My point was that Division III hockey is in danger while division I hockey is not.
                        ACHA is closing the gap with Div III hockey. Hockey in general appeals to a hard core segment of which alum are the die hards. Sadly I believe if ECAC West goes by by that this is a reflection on the bigger picture.
                        Excuse me ... the issues in the ECAC West are exactly the same kinds of issues that those discontinued DI programs faced. Did you realize that there are more DIII programs than DI programs, and DIII has added the following programs in recent years - Adrian, Neumann, Manhattanville, Utica, University of New England, Westfield State, Becker, and Morrisville. Lost programs during the same period: Scranton, LVC, and MCLA. That's growth, not shrinkage. In the last three years we have added Becker, UNE, and Westfield. The ECAC West is not in trouble for "hockey reasons" it's what you have cited as "other reasons"
                        2007-2008 ECAC East/NESCAC Interlock Pick 'em winner
                        2007-2008 Last Person Standing Winner,
                        2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
                        2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

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                        • #42
                          Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

                          Mapquest Math

                          Manhattanville (Playland) to Boston - 187.76 miles (not bad)

                          Neumann (Aston, PA) to Boston - 332.09 miles

                          Elmira to Boston - 360.93 miles

                          I picked Boston because a lot of D3 teams are close by. I don't know why everyone is down on Manhattanville because the driving distance to play a game there is reasonable provided there is not slow trafic in CT. Neumann was actually closer than Elmira by about 30 miles, however, looking at cost along I can not see any Boston/ME/NH/VT teams going to thoes locations. I not sure what the best solution is for the ECAC West.

                          I just curious if anyone knows the estimated cost for a team to drive down to Elmira/Neumann and stay overnight (say driving 350+- miles one way)?
                          2009-2010 Last Person Standing winner
                          2009-2010 Interlock LPS winner

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                          • #43
                            Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

                            We might just be getting a bit ahead of ourselves, here.

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                            2016-2017 ECAC West Pick 'em Champion
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                            • #44
                              Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

                              Originally posted by hockeylongtimer View Post
                              now that a Canadian university Simon Fraser is accepted in NCAA perhaps a few universities in ontaro and quebec will jump in to give ECAC west 7 teams failing that if there is no chance for the 4 remaining teams to get a tournament bid..after manhattenville takes their "puck" and goes..saving ALL that awful trip to RYE ..maybe the remaining schools will close up their programs and play volleyball..surely something will be done before that happens
                              CIS teams are coming in at D-II not D-III. Not a solution to the problem.

                              I think we're talking in circles. Everything, I think, hinges on the interlock and D-II games counting.
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                              • #45
                                Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

                                Originally posted by joecct View Post
                                CIS teams are coming in at D-II not D-III. Not a solution to the problem.

                                I think we're talking in circles. Everything, I think, hinges on the interlock and D-II games counting.
                                Bingo!

                                If the answer to either of those is no, we are likely to see a massive restructuring of Conference affiliations in the East

                                Hard to predict what will happen
                                2007-2008 ECAC East/NESCAC Interlock Pick 'em winner
                                2007-2008 Last Person Standing Winner,
                                2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
                                2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

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