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nhl38
04-19-2010, 11:04 AM
I don't understand "read the rest of the thread".
I have read the thread and thought that maybe someone wanted to know what I saw and experienced. I've worked this same job at the 2002 Olympics and other tourneys and AHL and NHL hockey over the years. This was'nt my first experience. I would have posted alot sooner, but it takes a long time to by able to enter this board.

brookyone
04-19-2010, 11:08 AM
I worked the U18 in Chicago as Team Services ( we are like the equipment managers for all the teams and the refs)> We repair equipment, do laundry, and help with whatever. The ref's lockeroom was next door to ours and because I ref'ed for 17 years, they hung out alot in our room.
The championship, gold medal game comes and the supervisior of officials has all 17 officials on standby...no one knows who's working until 1 hour before gametime. Canada vs USA, best match up possible. Out of the ref's room comes an Americian ref, a Swedish linesperson and a Canadian linesperson. The goal judges were also from that 17 person ref pool. The goal judge in question was Slovakian (who spoke VERY little english). Game starts and I watch the entire game from a restricted area to the right of the 3rd period Canadian goal...I had the same angles as the videos and still shots that you see here. On the play in question, Coyne has the puck 2 on 1 and I look at where the ref is (instinctivly) and see she is at center ice WAY behind the play and in no hurry to skate hard and catch-up. Swedish linesperson is the person that you see in the video. I watch the shot CLEARLY go into the net, the goal light come on and IT'S A GOAL!!!.
Swedish linesperson skates to find the ref (who is now stopped at the blueline) making NO signal and they start talking. Swedish linesperson is doing all the talking and then the Canadian lines comes in. Ref sends the lines to "talk" to each coach while she stays at center ice with still no signal.
Next thing I know ,the ref skates over to me at the player door and motions for me to open it..she says to me..."get the goal judge". I go escort the goal judge to her and respectfully back away so the may speak in private. Remember ,the goal judge speaks very little English and this conversation only lasts 10-15 seconds and then the ref signals ..NO GOAL. The rest of the game everyone here knows about.
The game ends and I escort the goal judge back to the ref's lockeroom. As we were walking back, she stops me and says "I'm Sorry" and then we keep walking. The other refs show up along with the supervisor of officials (a man).
Supervisor goes into the lockeroom with the 3 game refs and the 2 goal judges and come out about 10 minutes later. I'm outside with all the other refs waiting. After about 30 minutes, the game refs come out, the Swedish linesperson comes over to me and gives me her helmet and tells me that "she won't be needing it anymore". All the refs leave together OUT THE BACK DOOR. One of the American refs stops to tell me good-bye and tells me how embaressed she is at having to leave that way. I was the only person not directly involved with the game officiating that was allowed to stay with them and see the outcome ( I think it was a respect thing to me from them).
DVD complete games were available 15 minutes after each game ended to each team in the tourney, but funny, no one had this game...not even on Sunday when we asked the media person for a copy.
I know what I saw, I know what happened afterwards, and I know that this chosen officiating crew for this game, was in way over their head and did not have the experience to work at this high a level.
If anyone has any quetions about this game, please ask them here and I'll give you an answer.
Thanks for reading this!
Thank you for posting this! I appreciate the story from your vantage point.

Yaforsure
04-19-2010, 01:23 PM
do you have access to the video? I do agree the shot was a high shot over the left shoulder(hits cross bar) and then hits near the post on bottom right. when does it cross the line if it did?:confused:

nhl38
04-19-2010, 03:24 PM
What I saw live and what I disagree with is that the shot hit any post. There was never any sound (clank) and what I saw was the puck enter low below the goalie's left leg (she was standing) and coming right out near the right post..like it hit the low part of the back ring that touches the ice and made a half circle so quick that it came out near the right post (where I was standing above the goalline toward center ice). There was no sound (like hitting the backboard or post) and I saw no net movement either. I saw it go in and out that fast. The USA equip mgr told me he saw it go in the same way I described. Hope this helps.

glove
04-19-2010, 03:40 PM
What I saw live and what I disagree with is that the shot hit any post. There was never any sound (clank) and what I saw was the puck enter low below the goalie's left leg (she was standing) and coming right out near the right post..like it hit the low part of the back ring that touches the ice and made a half circle so quick that it came out near the right post (where I was standing above the goalline toward center ice). There was no sound (like hitting the backboard or post) and I saw no net movement either. I saw it go in and out that fast. The USA equip mgr told me he saw it go in the same way I described. Hope this helps.

if you watch the video it does hit the post and ricchocet off a skate back into the net it looks like it went in, watch slowly and you can see it. It is agame of hockey, thier is always a winner and a loser. I think it may be time to look at the NHL playoffs, I am watching washington and senators . phoneix and detroiet was also good....;)

Hux
04-19-2010, 05:29 PM
What I saw live and what I disagree with is that the shot hit any post. There was never any sound (clank) and what I saw was the puck enter low below the goalie's left leg (she was standing) and coming right out near the right post..like it hit the low part of the back ring that touches the ice and made a half circle so quick that it came out near the right post (where I was standing above the goalline toward center ice). There was no sound (like hitting the backboard or post) and I saw no net movement either. I saw it go in and out that fast. The USA equip mgr told me he saw it go in the same way I described. Hope this helps.

I thought it did what was described in the previous post, but the video shows it did as you described, beating MacDonald low to her left, ripping around the base, hitting a bump in the skirt by the center post and camera, and then careering across to hit the ice just behind the far post where it bounced out of the net. The goal judge should have caught it entering or exiting the net at the very least.

taxicab
04-19-2010, 06:48 PM
I worked the U18 in Chicago as Team Services ( we are like the equipment managers for all the teams and the refs)> We repair equipment, do laundry, and help with whatever. The ref's lockeroom was next door to ours and because I ref'ed for 17 years, they hung out alot in our room.
The championship, gold medal game comes and the supervisior of officials has all 17 officials on standby...no one knows who's working until 1 hour before gametime. Canada vs USA, best match up possible. Out of the ref's room comes an Americian ref, a Swedish linesperson and a Canadian linesperson. The goal judges were also from that 17 person ref pool. The goal judge in question was Slovakian (who spoke VERY little english). Game starts and I watch the entire game from a restricted area to the right of the 3rd period Canadian goal...I had the same angles as the videos and still shots that you see here. On the play in question, Coyne has the puck 2 on 1 and I look at where the ref is (instinctivly) and see she is at center ice WAY behind the play and in no hurry to skate hard and catch-up. Swedish linesperson is the person that you see in the video. I watch the shot CLEARLY go into the net, the goal light come on and IT'S A GOAL!!!.
Swedish linesperson skates to find the ref (who is now stopped at the blueline) making NO signal and they start talking. Swedish linesperson is doing all the talking and then the Canadian lines comes in. Ref sends the lines to "talk" to each coach while she stays at center ice with still no signal.
Next thing I know ,the ref skates over to me at the player door and motions for me to open it..she says to me..."get the goal judge". I go escort the goal judge to her and respectfully back away so they may speak in private. Remember ,the goal judge speaks very little English and this conversation only lasts 10-15 seconds and then the ref signals ..NO GOAL. The rest of the game everyone here knows about.
The game ends and I escort the goal judge back to the ref's lockeroom. As we were walking back, she stops me and says "I'm Sorry" and then we keep walking. The other refs show up along with the supervisor of officials (a man).
Supervisor goes into the lockeroom with the 3 game refs and the 2 goal judges and come out about 10 minutes later. I'm outside with all the other refs waiting. After about 30 minutes, the game refs come out, the Swedish linesperson comes over to me and gives me her helmet and tells me that "she won't be needing it anymore". All the refs leave together OUT THE BACK DOOR. One of the American refs stops to tell me good-bye and tells me how embaressed she is at having to leave that way. I was the only person not directly involved with the game officiating that was allowed to stay with them and see the outcome ( I think it was a respect thing to me from them).
DVD complete games were available 15 minutes after each game ended to each team in the tourney, but funny, no one had this game...not even on Sunday when we asked the media person for a copy.
I know what I saw, I know what happened afterwards, and I know that this chosen officiating crew for this game, was in way over their head and did not have the experience to work at this high a level.
If anyone has any quetions about this game, please ask them here and I'll give you an answer.
Thanks for reading this!



Thanks for your very informative information. I would love to know why it appears the IIHF/USAH wants to support the ref. & not their team/coach. The IIHF website specifically states that they had video review that supports that the correct call was made ! We ALL know that is a total fabrication. There can not be any video replay supporting no goal....EVERYONE knows it went in. Anyone that saw the video knows it went in as did the announcers. They even said that the correct call was not being made (when it was called a no goal). Now all of that is taken off of fast hockey. Why the cover up. There have been many mistakes over the years. Most times there is an admission & an apology. Not here, the IIHF & USAH is supporting the ref. WHY ? Can anyone please explain that.

live4hockey
04-19-2010, 07:38 PM
Thanks for your very informative information. I would love to know why it appears the IIHF/USAH wants to support the ref. & not their team/coach. The IIHF website specifically states that they had video review that supports that the correct call was made ! We ALL know that is a total fabrication. There can not be any video replay supporting no goal....EVERYONE knows it went in. Anyone that saw the video knows it went in as did the announcers. They even said that the correct call was not being made (when it was called a no goal). Now all of that is taken off of fast hockey. Why the cover up. There have been many mistakes over the years. Most times there is an admission & an apology. Not here, the IIHF & USAH is supporting the ref. WHY ? Can anyone please explain that.

It doesn't make any sense...they DEF don't have video proof to show the "no goal." Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uzWPYtrTzI

Or look at this photo...still think it's "no goal" IIHF?

Well, I can't insert the photo but if you goto the Facebook page Ban Tara Leighton from Refereeing then you will see the photo. It is CLEARLY in the BACK of the net ON the ice -- NO POSSIBLE WAY this puck hit the cross bar.

glove
04-19-2010, 09:12 PM
It doesn't make any sense...they DEF don't have video proof to show the "no goal." Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uzWPYtrTzI

Or look at this photo...still think it's "no goal" IIHF?

Well, I can't insert the photo but if you goto the Facebook page Ban Tara Leighton from Refereeing then you will see the photo. It is CLEARLY in the BACK of the net ON the ice -- NO POSSIBLE WAY this puck hit the cross bar.

I was raised to believe what ever the call(ref) you hold your tongue and play on(and boy was thAT NOT EASY). I respect all on this board but it is hockey and they are part of the game. Hang in there.:(

live4hockey
04-19-2010, 10:10 PM
I was raised to believe what ever the call(ref) you hold your tongue and play on(and boy was thAT NOT EASY). I respect all on this board but it is hockey and they are part of the game. Hang in there.:(

I don't disagree with you, as far as the game goes. But, my mom also told me to step up, "be a man" and admit when you make a mistake. THe IIHF and Hockey Canada saying there is video evidence to support the "no-goal" call is just wrong and there should have been an admittance to a mistake and apology. No one is suggesting the US would have DEF won because that no-goal wasn't in OT and you never know what could have happened. But, people and organizations should admit when they make a mistake.

Yaforsure
04-20-2010, 06:58 AM
check it out! puck clearly goes over shoulder(cross bar area) and down near post(goal line):cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6PxMAzIBFY

law
04-20-2010, 08:33 AM
Just curious, with all the extensive & learned discussion & video that's been posted on "the goal" in the final game, is there a sense yet as to when the IIHF will make a decision on scheduling the replay of this game? Do you think they would play it at the same rink?

UCONN FAN
04-20-2010, 08:36 AM
check it out! puck clearly goes over shoulder(cross bar area) and down near post(goal line):cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6PxMAzIBFY

It is typical of the officiating in the women's game. The 3 man system DOES NOT WORK! Watch the clip carefully, the shooter has all ready looped the net and has almost skated out of the far corner before the ref evens appears in the video. Even the linesman is behind the play. The goal judge (who's only job is watch for pucks that go in the net) indicates it was a goal and the ref still disallows it. Shameful!

OnMAA
04-20-2010, 09:01 AM
Just curious, with all the extensive & learned discussion & video that's been posted on "the goal" in the final game, is there a sense yet as to when the IIHF will make a decision on scheduling the replay of this game? Do you think they would play it at the same rink?

Replay ?......Once the puck was dropped to continue the game, issue has been decided....Even if there was a protest after the game, it would probably have been completed before the teams packed their bags and went home. Not even sure if you can protest a judgement call. IIRC you can only protest wrong interpretation/violation of the rules, but not judgement calls. Someone more up on the rules, can probably elaborate on that.

CanHockGuy
04-20-2010, 12:18 PM
Why are you guys stirring this all up again! My God, let it go! Set an example for the players sake. :confused:

brookyone
04-20-2010, 12:50 PM
Why are you guys stirring this all up again! My God, let it go! Set an example for the players sake. :confused:
Yeah...we've all seen the pictures, the video and heard the eyewitness accounts. Not much more to say...nothing can be done.

The one exception would be to continue to malign...er, discuss the unfortunate state of affairs with the officiating at the upper levels of women's hockey. Specifically in international competition. That needs fixing...badly.

Trillium
04-20-2010, 05:42 PM
Yeah...we've all seen the pictures, the video and heard the eyewitness accounts. Not much more to say...nothing can be done.

The one exception would be to continue to malign...er, discuss the unfortunate state of affairs with the officiating at the upper levels of women's hockey. Specifically in international competition. That needs fixing...badly.

THIS...and not just in international competition!

Terrierbyassociation
04-25-2010, 02:19 AM
My question is why did the ref speak to the goal judge? That is clearly against protocol. All you can ask is did the puck go into the net. The goal judge didn't make a mistake by signaling goal. So why exactly did this conversation take place?

:confused:

RStarr
04-25-2010, 06:41 AM
Can brookyone get one of those free hugs?

taxicab
04-25-2010, 09:32 PM
All of these officials listed on the USA Hockey website. I can't believe that every person on this list was busy on championship day.
Notice who is not listed !

Officials in the IIHF


Many USA Hockey trained officials have advanced to assignments in IIHF world championships in countries around the world and in all divisions. Take a look at what USA Hockey officials are up to on an international level.




TOM STERNS (Edina, MN)
Referee - World Senior Championship, Pool A
Quebec and Halifax, Canada (May 2-18, 2008)

Referee – World U20 Championship, Pool A
Pardubice and Liberec, Czech Republic
(December 26, 2007-January 5, 2008)

RICK LOOKER (Thief River Falls, MN)
Referee - World Senior Championship, Pool A
Quebec and Halifax, Canada (May 2-18, 2008)

LEAH WRAZIDLO (Duluth, MN)
Referee – World Women’s Championship, Pool A
Harbin, China (April 4-113, 2008)


MEGHAN HISHMEH (Kinnelon, NJ)
Linesman – World Women’s Championship, Pool A
Harbin, China (April 4-13, 2008)

No photo available
BOB BERNARD (Braintree, MA)
Linesman – World Senior Championship, Division I
Sapporo, Japan (April 13-19, 2008)

ALICIA HANRAHAN (Columbus, OH)
Linesman – World Women’s Championship, Division I
Ventspils, Latvia (March 10-16, 2008)

ERIN BLAIR (Chicago, IL)
Referee – World Women’s Championship, Division II
Vierumaki, Finland (March 25-30, 2008)

KRISTINE LANGLEY (Minnetonka, MN)
Referee – World Women’s Championship, Division III
Miskoic, Hungary (April 6-12, 2008)

No photo available
ANDREA WEISSMAN (Philadelphia, PA)
Referee – World Women’s Championship, Division III
Miskoic, Hungary (April 6-12, 2008)


DANYEL HOWARD (Auburn, MA)
Referee – World U18 Women’s Championship, Pool A
Calgary, Canada (January 7-12, 2008)

ADRIANNA SABLE (Ferndale, MI)
Linesman – World U18 Women’s Championship, Pool A
Calgary, Canada (January 7-12, 2008)

No photo available
KELLI O’BRIAN (Champlin, MN)
Linesman – World U18 Women’s Championship, Pool A
Calgary, Canada (January 7-12, 2008)

PETE FEOLA (Rochester, NY)
Linesman – World U20 Championship, Pool A
Pardubice and Liberec, Czech Republic
(December 26, 2007-January 5, 2008)

Linesman – World Senior Championship, Pool A
Quebec and Halifax, Canada (May 2-18, 2008)

No photo available
TRAVIS SMITH (Glendale AZ)
Referee – World U20 Championship, Division I
Bad Tolz, Germany (December 9-15, 2007)

ROBERT RITCHIE (Scotch Plains, NJ)
Referee – World U18 Championship, Pool A
Kazan, Russia (April 13-23, 2008)

DAVID BROWN (Wall Township, NJ)
Linesman – World U18 Championship, Pool A
Kazan, Russia (April 13-23, 2008)


KEITH KAVAL (Erie, PA)
Referee – World U18 Championship, Division I
Torun, Poland (April 2-8, 2008)

No photo available
CRAIG HANSON (Bismarck, ND)
Referee – World U18 Championship, Division III
Mexico City, Mexico (March 2-8, 2008)

PAUL CARNATHAN (Philadelphia, PA)
Linesman – U18 Championship, Division III
Mexico City, Mexico (March 2-8, 2008)