2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

I would like to see the video of this so called bad call You are absolutely correct but this no goal was only one of many missed calls, seemingly simple calls. What remains is what these officials are allowed to officiate after this....i say atoms. Hey 5 4 Fighting thanks fro showing me these smilies....Now I get it.

No problem, make sure you use them if you are attempting to be witty or funny. Some people are thick and don't always get the theme of your posts. They tend to get all bent out of shape over the dumbest things.

The only thing missing is the "Flip the Bird" icon. That would come in handy on many an occasion.

[Trillium]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

Hmmm....Go visit the Ontario Forum sometimes and you will find out that many posters think the PWHL reffing is the worst there is in Ontario.

IMHO there is good and bad reffing everwhere. Part of it is personal taste. I always find it interesting to listen to comments directed towards the ref, when you are observing a game as a neutral bystander. You should all do this from time to time, as it is a great learning tool to learn respect for the officials. You'd be surprised how silly some of the comments from the stands really are.

When my D's play on a team with an overzealous parent in the stands, I usually go and sit on the other side. Can't stand it.

Agree their can be a lot of bias from parents in viewing refs. There can be alot of inconsistency too as some refs call it really tight, while others let most of the physical stuff go if there are no sticks involved. However, I do also watch a lot of games as a neutral party, and over and over again you see consistently poor officiating from the same refs without consequence.

There are three big problems in women's hockey officiating in Ontario. I imagine it's not much different elsewhere, probably worse as the uneven quality of play doesn't help development of good officials:
1) Refs in women's hockey get no supervision or development whatsoever. The only "feedback" they get is from the overzealous parents you refer to. And you don't even have to know how to skate to actually get your certification! Good officiating is seen as unimportant.
2) All ref hiring and assignment is done by one of the dinosaurs in the old girls club. Highly competent male refs from top boys leagues rarely get hired nor get plum assignments, while close ties with old female friends are rewarded regardless of competence. Many are overweight and out of shape too.
3) The pace of development of the game with exponentially increasing speed and skill is far beyond the level the majority of these refs have ever played at or are capable of. So they are constantly out of position. Because of #2 and #1, even women who've played more recently at top levels can't even get their foot in the door, so the situation never improves.

[wheelerdealer]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

No problem, make sure you use them if you are attempting to be witty or funny. Some people are thick and don't always get the theme of your posts. They tend to get all bent out of shape over the dumbest things.

The only thing missing is the "Flip the Bird" icon. That would come in handy on many an occasion.

Haha nah I was just being sarcastic.

[RStarr]

nice shot

True enough. See below, which is the same as the shot where it looks like the puck is in the back of the net. It is actually in the air in front of the official.
*****http://i433.***********.com/albums/qq55/hockeyHux/Lorence2.jpg******

*****http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs450.ash1/24786_108337075865454_100000674867871_104212_37439 31_n.jpg******

fug the what?! craaaazzzzy!

[OnMAA]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

Agree their can be a lot of bias from parents in viewing refs. There can be alot of inconsistency too as some refs call it really tight, while others let most of the physical stuff go if there are no sticks involved. However, I do also watch a lot of games as a neutral party, and over and over again you see consistently poor officiating from the same refs without consequence.

There are three big problems in women's hockey officiating in Ontario. I imagine it's not much different elsewhere, probably worse as the uneven quality of play doesn't help development of good officials:
1) Refs in women's hockey get no supervision or development whatsoever. The only "feedback" they get is from the overzealous parents you refer to. And you don't even have to know how to skate to actually get your certification! Good officiating is seen as unimportant.
2) All ref hiring and assignment is done by one of the dinosaurs in the old girls club. Highly competent male refs from top boys leagues rarely get hired nor get plum assignments, while close ties with old female friends are rewarded regardless of competence. Many are overweight and out of shape too.
3) The pace of development of the game with exponentially increasing speed and skill is far beyond the level the majority of these refs have ever played at or are capable of. So they are constantly out of position. Because of #2 and #1, even women who've played more recently at top levels can't even get their foot in the door, so the situation never improves.

Angela James used to Ref when my kids were just switching to Girls hockey. Too bad we don't get more like her who played the game at the highest level involved.

[Trillium]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

Angela James used to Ref when my kids were just switching to Girls hockey. Too bad we don't get more like her who played the game at the highest level involved.

As far as I know, she still does ref...at least she still did a couple of years ago. I don't know why she never reffed in the PWHL, but was assigned to alot of Midget AA games.

She is one of the few female refs who I actually think does a great job, and wished she did PWHL games too. She's one who lets the physical play go, and is constantly talking to the girls on the ice, as well as to the coaches on the bench.

[taxicab]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

Both historic events in sports. I am guessing the USU18 Women will still
be feeling this 30 years later as well.

April 3, 2010:
US Women's U18 Hockey team get cheated out of GWG by
poor officials.

Sept. 10, 1972:
US Men's Basketball team gets cheated out of Gold

Under enormous pressure, the Illinois State guard sank both free throws giving the Americans a 50-49 lead, their first of the game. After the Soviets in-bounded the ball, the referees halted the game with one second remaining. The decision was made to put three seconds back on the clock. At issue was the Soviets' contention that they had signaled for a time-out between Collins' two free throws. The game officials never acknowledged the time out. The validity of whether a time-out was legally signaled for has divided passions on this game for 30 years.
After the Soviets in-bounded the ball a second time, the horn sounded signaling an apparent American victory. Moments later, the teams were ordered back on the floor because the clock had not been properly reset to show three seconds remaining. Because of this mistake by the scorer's table, the celebrating Americans stood in disbelief when they were told they had not won anything yet.
"We couldn't believe that they were giving them all these chances," said U.S. forward Mike Bantom. "It was like they were going to let them do it until they got it right."
Alexander Belov, who moments earlier had been the goat, became the hero. Rising between Americans Jim Forbes and Kevin Joyce, Belov caught a full-court pass and scored the winning lay-up as time ran out, this time for good. The controversy did not end with the game. Convinced they had been wronged, the U.S. team filed a formal protest with the International Basketball Federation. Later that afternoon, a five-member panel ruled in favor of the Soviets.
"Everything progressed according to strictly Cold War politics," said Sports Illustrated writer Gary Smith. "There were three Communist Bloc judges. It's a three to two vote. America loses. The Soviet Union wins the gold medal, and at that point the American players are facing a stark reality. Do they accept the silver medal?"
"We felt like they just did something to us that was illegal and we didn't know any other way to protest than to say that you're not about to get us to show up to take that silver medal," said team captain Kenny Davis expressing the team's ultimate response.
Thirty years later, the silver medals sit unclaimed in a vault in Lusanne, Switzerland. The intervening years have done little to hide the emotions of that historic night in Munich.

[OnMAA]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

As far as I know, she still does ref...at least she still did a couple of years ago. I don't know why she never reffed in the PWHL, but was assigned to alot of Midget AA games.

She is one of the few female refs who I actually think does a great job, and wished she did PWHL games too. She's one who lets the physical play go, and is constantly talking to the girls on the ice, as well as to the coaches on the bench.

She was the Ontario Team Red head coach back in Trois Rivieres (2001). Gillian Apps would have been on that team, along with the older sister of Rebecca Johnston. It was also the coming out party of a very young Sarah Vaillancourt who played for team Quebec as a 15 year old.

[OnMAA]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

Both historic events in sports. I am guessing the USU18 Women will still
be feeling this 30 years later as well.

April 3, 2010:
US Women's U18 Hockey team get cheated out of GWG by
poor officials.

Sept. 10, 1972:
US Men's Basketball team gets cheated out of Gold.

No offense to U18 womens hockey, but comparing an Olympic Gold medal fiasco to the U18 event for Girls Hockey is an order of magnitude difference for at least three reasons:

1 - The Munich event is at the biggest of stages, during the height of the cold war, putting the Russians vs the Americans. Everyone was watching. The Womens U18 hockey event, while important to it's supporters, is a niche event that 99% of the population has never even heard off, nor do they care.

2 - The issue at the Munich event happened at the final buzzer. The decision was about to end or not to end the game. A the U18 event there was over 10 minutes left in the game.

3 - For most of the US college players, this was the pinnacle of their career, a one time shot at Olympic or world gold. Most of the U18 players will go on to play 4 years of college, and many of them will play on the National team where they will be in many more international gold medal events.

[OnMAA]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

Both historic events in sports. I am guessing the USU18 Women will still
be feeling this 30 years later as well.

April 3, 2010:
US Women's U18 Hockey team get cheated out of GWG by
poor officials.

Sept. 10, 1972:
US Men's Basketball team gets cheated out of Gold.

In 1972 our family lived about a 5 hour car ride away from Munich. My dad worked at the site in 1971. What I remember the most from those games in order of importance/significance is the following:

1 - The Killing of the Israeli's and the subsequent botched shootout during the gettaway
2 - Valery Borzov winning the Gold in the 100 after the Americans slept in during the earlier rounds.
3 - The Mark Spitz 7 gold medals
4 - Olga Corbut, the little Russian girl put Gymnastics on the map.
5 - Reindeer Milk drinking Lasse Viren winning the 5K after a fall, and then later also winning the 10K
6 - The USA loosing the gold in Basketball in a dramatic ending.
7 - The Japanese getting upset by Ruska in Judo
8 - American Shorter winning the gold in the Marathon after an imposter tried to claim victory first. Viren finishing 5th, failing in his bid to match Zatopek's triple in '52 in Helsinki.

[CanHockGuy]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

WOW.....if you think your last sentence is fair and respectful, I wonder what disrespectful would be in your society.

Nevertheless, taxicab's comments are in fact reasonable, well thought out, and make sense, as do yours. Taxicab just is not as mean spirited and opinionated as you are.

Plug, you're silly, uninformed and you can't read. Let it go. I'm not going to argue with you. Read the last few pages again and you'll see. Especially the reference to the people who have created a "new math" (not to mention the "in your society" thing) and the "How dare you" crap. You started it and I ended it. Fair enough?

[CanHockGuy]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

True enough. See below, which is the same as the shot where it looks like the puck is in the back of the net. It is actually in the air in front of the official.
*****http://i433.***********.com/albums/qq55/hockeyHux/Lorence2.jpg******

Thanks Hux. Proof that you can't be too careful.

[RStarr]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

In 1972 our family lived about a 5 hour car ride away from Munich. My dad worked at the site in 1971. What I remember the most from those games in order of importance/significance is the following:

1 - The Killing of the Israeli's and the subsequent botched shootout during the gettaway
2 - Valery Borzov winning the Gold in the 100 after the Americans slept in during the earlier rounds.
3 - The Mark Spitz 7 gold medals
4 - Olga Corbut, the little Russian girl put Gymnastics on the map.
5 - Reindeer Milk drinking Lasse Viren winning the 5K after a fall, and then later also winning the 10K
6 - The USA loosing the gold in Basketball in a dramatic ending.
7 - The Japanese getting upset by Ruska in Judo
8 - American Shorter winning the gold in the Marathon after an imposter tried to claim victory first. Viren finishing 5th, failing in his bid to match Zatopek's triple in '52 in Helsinki.

best. post. ever.

[CanHockGuy]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

OK, now I'm ready to puke. How in the hell did the goal judge miss that? Where was the official looking?

Upon further review I'm really, really ****ed that I wasn't shooting all along as Miss Coyne came in. I shot her move at the blueline, then refocused on the net and had I hit the button earlier I'd have caught the puck in the HIGHLY visible area through which it traveled. Shoulda just done a motor drive sequence.

At least the video was there. By the way a lot of people described the goal, they didn't see what they thought they saw, including the officials. Just goes to show you how important camera work really is.

[brookyone]

Re: 2010 IIHF World Women's U18 Championship

At least the video was there. By the way a lot of people described the goal, they didn't see what they thought they saw, including the officials. Just goes to show you how important camera work really is.

With the pictures and video I've seen since, clearly showing the puck, player and official positions on the ice...along with where we know the goal judge is, it really appears no camera work was needed to get this one right.