Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

If there are breaks for out of state kids at Salem State, that is news to me. We've been told from day 1 that the financial aid is reserved for in-state kids.

Are you kidding me?

Close to half or more than 50% of Mascac teams rosters are made up of out of staters or international students.

Fitchburg- 13
Framingham - 13
Westifled - 18
Salem - 10
Plymouth - 18
Worcester - 17
Umass Dartmouth - 9

If Umass Boston enters the picture - 25

Southern Maine - 14

For some schools an awfully high percentage of out of state/internation going and paying full amount of tuition if that's the case me thinks good deal on financial aid package helps swallow terrible team and even worse rink to play out of.

There was a time where Umass Boston were all hard nosed mass kids and the current coaching staff was praised for going out and bringing in tons of out of state and international kids yet record indicate still long way to go to repeat days of glory for UMB going this route.

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

If there are breaks for out of state kids at Salem State, that is news to me. We've been told from day 1 that the financial aid is reserved for in-state kids.

I see NO evidence of "in-state exclusivity" for general financial aid at Salem State, though I also do not see any programs to actively encourage out-of-state diversity. Need based financial aid increases as cost increase, so US citizens who are also out-of-state students WILL receive more FEDERAL based aid, however, it is highly unlikely to cover the SEVEN TIMES higher out-of-state tuition cost. Also, note, like most state based aid, Massachusetts State Financial Aid is only available to permanent residents of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.


Student body
The college's (FY09) student population is comprised of:

Full-time: Undergraduate - 5,790 -- Graduate - 316
Part-time: Undergraduate - 1,887 -- Graduate - 2,164
Gender breakdown: Undergraduate - M 38% F 62% -- Graduate - M 21% F 79%
Self-reported students of color: Undergraduate - 19% -- Graduate - 4%
Massachusetts residents: Undergraduate - 94% -- Graduate - 93%
Other U.S. residents: Undergraduate - 4% -- Graduate - 3%
International residents: Undergraduate - 2% -- Graduate - 4%

Alumni Body
Total number of living alumni: 45,659
Massachusetts residents: 36,208
Other U.S. residents: 9,260
International: 191


Student Tuition Costs and Fees

------------------- In State - Out of State
FT Undergraduate Tuition $910 - $7,050
FT Undergraduate Required Fees $5,360 - $5,360
PT Undergraduate per Credit Hour $190 - $369

FT Graduate Tuition $2,520 - $4,140
FT Graduate Required Fees $1,980 - $1,980
PT Graduate per Credit Hour $250 - $340

Total Cost of Attendance — On-Campus $16,788 - $22,928
Total Cost of Attendance — Off-Campus w/out Family $16,940 - $23,080
Total Cost of Attendance — Off-Campus with Family $9,920 - $16,060

[jerrynu26]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Jerry- That looks good, however, if UNE stays E would M'ville be able to schedule around a nine team format w/o a travel partner? Or would they just have to stay in the ECAC-W?....BTW I don't know where hockeyfan77 gets his info, but I, for one, hope it's right.

utica.......

[3rdLiner]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I thought the SME was in the NE did not like it and worked hard to get into the ECAC East. If that is true, I think the East in tact would still be there first choice as the NE and MASCAC are similar and having had the choice earlier chose the East.

I also think the SME women play in the ECAC East which is back to having all of the animals in the same barn thinking that the MASCAC is pushing.

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I thought the SME was in the NE did not like it and worked hard to get into the ECAC East. If that is true, I think the East in tact would still be there first choice as the NE and MASCAC are similar and having had the choice earlier chose the East.

I also think the SME women play in the ECAC East which is back to having all of the animals in the same barn thinking that the MASCAC is pushing.

Who is SME? Are you referring to the University of Southern Maine, which would be USM? Or University of New England, which would be UNE.

If you're referring to UNE, they entered DIII this past season as a member of the ECAC-East. If you're referring to USM, I'm less familiar with their history, but the Team History page shows them as having been a member of the ECAC-East since 72/73. Now, I'm not 100% confident when it comes to DII/DIII history prior to 1995 (since I wasn't born until 91), but I didn't think the ECAC-NE was that old as a conference.

Now, if you're referring to someone else, please correct me... but I was unaware of an SME in this sport

[hawk]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

From following SM and UMB in the ECAC E it has always been my feeling that both teams like to play a highly compeitive brand of D3 hockey that was offered in the interlock and maybe now strickly in the ECAC E. If all the D3 decide to stay in the ECAC E I would still look to recruit a couple of willing teams from this list:
Manhattanville
Utica
Curry
Wentworth
Plymouth (I know they are in the MASCAC but may want to play a more competitive brand of hockey).

The D2 question/problem has been out there for years. Both St. Mikes and St. A's are D3 size schools and could of converted to D3 a number of times and solved the problem.

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Who is SME? Are you referring to the University of Southern Maine, which would be USM? Or University of New England, which would be UNE.

If you're referring to UNE, they entered DIII this past season as a member of the ECAC-East. If you're referring to USM, I'm less familiar with their history, but the Team History page shows them as having been a member of the ECAC-East since 72/73. Now, I'm not 100% confident when it comes to DII/DIII history prior to 1995 (since I wasn't born until 91), but I didn't think the ECAC-NE was that old as a conference.

Now, if you're referring to someone else, please correct me... but I was unaware of an SME in this sport

Cards you haven't heard of the re-branding

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Who is SME? Are you referring to the University of Southern Maine, which would be USM? Or University of New England, which would be UNE.

If you're referring to UNE, they entered DIII this past season as a member of the ECAC-East. If you're referring to USM, I'm less familiar with their history, but the Team History page shows them as having been a member of the ECAC-East since 72/73. Now, I'm not 100% confident when it comes to DII/DIII history prior to 1995 (since I wasn't born until 91), but I didn't think the ECAC-NE was that old as a conference.

Now, if you're referring to someone else, please correct me... but I was unaware of an SME in this sport

I believe that USM was in the old ECAC North...I think they also had a South but like you I have no idea pre-1995 about much of the history...I do know some of the older players from those teams...

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

USM were a member of the ECAC North and joined the East around 92. The used to have the ECAC North/South and ECAC East/West back in the early 90's. 20 teams in the East trying to vie for one of 7 playoff spots. Not all these blanket AQ's they got going to everybody now and everybody makes the tournament philosophy.

Who is SME? Are you referring to the University of Southern Maine, which would be USM? Or University of New England, which would be UNE.

If you're referring to UNE, they entered DIII this past season as a member of the ECAC-East. If you're referring to USM, I'm less familiar with their history, but the Team History page shows them as having been a member of the ECAC-East since 72/73. Now, I'm not 100% confident when it comes to DII/DIII history prior to 1995 (since I wasn't born until 91), but I didn't think the ECAC-NE was that old as a conference.

Now, if you're referring to someone else, please correct me... but I was unaware of an SME in this sport

[NUProf]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I believe that USM was in the old ECAC North...I think they also had a South but like you I have no idea pre-1995 about much of the history...I do know some of the older players from those teams...

The ECAC North and South merged to form the NE. When that happened, USM moved from the North to the East, and Skidmore moved from the South to the East. The Old East was a big sprawling league that included most of the current members, several DI and DII programs, and all of the NESCAC (except Tufts)

At least that's how my memory says it worked

[d3follower]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

. . . . The Old East was a big sprawling league that included most of the current members, several DI and DII programs, and all of the NESCAC (except Tufts)

At least that's how my memory says it worked

In addition to Tufts, four other NESCACs--Trinity, Amherst, Conn College, and Wesleyan--spent quite a bit of time in the ECAC North/South--before joining the ECAC East. Amherst, for example, was the ECAC North/South champion in 1992 so we know it didn't move to the ECAC East until some time after 1992 . . .

[3rdLiner]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

In addition to Tufts, four other NESCACs--Trinity, Amherst, Conn College, and Wesleyan--spent quite a bit of time in the ECAC North/South--before joining the ECAC East. Amherst, for example, was the ECAC North/South champion in 1992 so we know it didn't move to the ECAC East until some time after 1992 . . .

So what you are saying is that the NESCAC which often talks about tradition and history, is actually ignoring their own history and tradition by breaking the interlock?

You might not have said that, but I am.

[d3follower]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

So what you are saying is that the NESCAC which often talks about tradition and history, is actually ignoring their own history and tradition by breaking the interlock?

You might not have said that, but I am.

Yes and no - the Interlock was created primarily to preserve the long-standing rivalries that were created within the once much larger ECAC East but that would really be true only for the 50% of NESCAC members--Bowdoin, Middlebury, Hamilton, Colby, and Williams--that were long-time members of the ECAC East. Tufts was never a member of the ECAC East and the other four NESCAC schools--Amherst, Trinity, Conn College, and Wesleyan--had very short tenures in the ECAC East so 50% of the NESCAC members wouldn't be giving up much in the way of "tradition" in breaking away from the Interlock.

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I wouldn't call close to 20 years a short tenure. I think people don't realize that if you can imagine the NESCAC the East as one giant super league including teams like UConn, Holy Cross, AIC and games against St. A's and St. Mikes counted. Many times in state school rivalries for DIII teams would carry
over into Div. 1 so you would see games like Elmira vs. St. Lawrence, or Norwich vs. UVM, or Plattsburgh vs. Clarkson. There were many good teams that probably have been forgotten because they didn't make the playoffs or they made the playoffs and didn't get into the NCAA's. Back then the bulk of kids were from a talented pool of high schools and the Eastern Jr. Hockey League was considered a league for kids who either were not good enough to play high school hockey or didn't have high school hockey in their towns or didn't get picked up anyway to play college hockey so played a few extra years.

Look how hockey has changed where it is the only collegiate sport that allows a kid to play extra years without consequence after he graduates high school without losing athletic eligiblity.

Yes the NESCAC has seperated and have ignored history and it seems to have created some sort of Chaos in the East now and could jeopardize one of their precious bids.

It seems as though that the ECAC East hinges on a few programs to either remain a conference or fall apart.

Yes and no - the Interlock was created primarily to preserve the long-standing rivalries that were created within the once much larger ECAC East but that would really be true only for the 50% of NESCAC members--Bowdoin, Middlebury, Hamilton, Colby, and Williams--that were long-time members of the ECAC East. Tufts was never a member of the ECAC East and the other four NESCAC schools--Amherst, Trinity, Conn College, and Wesleyan--had very short tenures in the ECAC East so 50% of the NESCAC members wouldn't be giving up much in the way of "tradition" in breaking away from the Interlock.

[d3follower]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I wouldn't call close to 20 years a short tenure. I think people don't realize that if you can imagine the NESCAC the East as one giant super league including teams like UConn, Holy Cross, AIC and games against St. A's and St. Mikes counted. . . .

It's not 20 years - Amherst, Trinity, Wesleyan, etc. played in the ECAC East for 5 or 6 years before the NESCAC became a separate playing conference in the 1999/2000 season. The point is none of the 4 late joiners to the ECAC East (plus Tufts) had long-standing rivalries with the core ECAC East teams when the NESCAC became a separate playing conference so there wasn't much in the way of "tradition" at stake for them in preserving established rivalries through the Interlock. In contrast, the other five NESCAC teams--Bowdoin, Colby, Hamilton, Middlebury, and Williams--played in the ECAC East for some 40 years before the NESCAC was formed so probably would have had a stronger interest in seeing the ECAC East live on in a modified form in the interlock. So, yes, there is a big difference between 5/6 years of history and 40 years of history.

St. Mike's was most definitely not a member of the ECAC East until about 9 or 10 years ago. It's not a core ECAC East team - those would be Norwich, St. Anselm, Babson, NEC, UMass Boston, Salem State, five NESCACs (Bowdoin, Colby, Hamilton, Middlebury, and Williams), and schools that now play D1 hockey and were in and out of the ECAC East at various times (AIC, Merrimack, Holy Cross, UConn, UMass Lowell, Army, Union).