Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Doesn't burst my bubble.



You might see someone like Manhattanville looking to join the East still.

I wasn't really implying that is would bust any Norwich fan's bubble...Why would they want to join another league???.They have hosted the finals all but one year and had at least one home playoff game in every year...It also frees them up to play a lot more Non conference games keeping the Norwich-Middlebury or put just about any team here alive...I think your last point is valid, Manhattanville is in the ECAC EAST in women's hockey and it would probably be a good fit for them( there is a date they have to decided by though: Sept 1): I think that is probably around the time you will hear official releases and the such...I am not much of a geography person though, not sure if they have a logical travel partner??? That could hold the East back in not wanting them to join...

[Dyce]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Besides some closer games, can someone tell me why the MASCAC is more appealing than the East?

I think the East has better teams, better facilities and better appeal to parents and players than a MA state league.

I think the Fri - Sat is better than the Random MASCAC schedule, and if the East plays everyone twice play each D-II school once and start on Oct 15, then they are looking at 9 non-conference games and their proximity to NE and West schools will allow them a good choice of Non Conference games. I think it is easier simpler and better to stay in the East unless I am missing something about the MASCAC.

If SME and Boston stay in the East they are not changing anything unless other schools approach them about joining like Manhattanville, Utica, Curry or Wentworth.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the primary draw of the MASCAC is its status as a multi-sport conference with far more intrinsic stability than the single-sport, hands-off ECAC conferences. Inasmuch as that ECAC instabiilty has been the driving force behind any number of conversations over the course of this 20ish-page (and counting) thread, one can see where such concerns might bear some serious consideration within athletic departments. You'll note, for example, that easily the least-discussed conference in this thread is the SUNYAC: a multi-sport, close-knit group of schools unaffected (well, perhaps in terms of non-con scheduling, but certainly not DIRECTLY affected) by any turmoil elsewhere in the region. The MASCAC provides schools a chance, with some improvement and perhaps a return to form by one or two programs like Salem State, the opportunity to create a very similar situation.

[jerrynu26]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I think your last point is valid, Manhattanville is in the ECAC EAST in women's hockey and it would probably be a good fit for them( there is a date they have to decided by though: Sept 1): I think that is probably around the time you will hear official releases and the such...I am not much of a geography person though, not sure if they have a logical travel partner??? That could hold the East back in not wanting them to join...

I think it would take a defection of UNE to the NE to get Manhattanville in.

In that case though, the travel partners would likely be:
Manhattanville-Skidmore
Castleton-Norwich
NEC-Babson
UMB-USM

[The Real Georgia Peach]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Jerry- That looks good, however, if UNE stays E would M'ville be able to schedule around a nine team format w/o a travel partner? Or would they just have to stay in the ECAC-W?....BTW I don't know where hockeyfan77 gets his info, but I, for one, hope it's right.

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

....BTW I don't know where hockeyfan77 gets his info, but I, for one, hope it's right.

I wouldn't post anything if I didn't have a reliable source... I am not a speculation type of guy...

[CROSBYNU63]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

the puck is in the hands of USM and UMass Boston. We await them to decide.

[reggiedunlop]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Who is we?

[The Real Georgia Peach]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

All us ECAC-E fans.

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

All us ECAC-E fans.

And us ECAC-W fans salivating at the idea of an AQ

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

The DII's already play by the same rules and have for years and are handicapped even more because their recruits have to pass the clearinghouse and yet still abide by DIII rules otherwise they should seperate and tell their AD's that either they want to go ACHA Div. I and play for a National Championship because you only need 6 teams in a conference to get an AQ for ACHA Div. I or tell their AD's that they are going to compete as a DII to the fullest extent and play theire 32 or 37 games or whatever is allowed under DII and play D1 and D3 programs as an NCAA Independent. I don't know why they don't force the AD's and say hey we are going to play the max games and continue to spend more money like the NCAA tells us unless you knuckle heads actually contact the NCAA and propose something and change the legislation for this particular sport. The coaches cannot do it it has to be the AD's and Presidents that get together and go to the NCAA and request the changes.

I too believe that the DII teams can play an important role in the future of DIII hockey, primarily by expanding the "countable" playing field. That said, beyond publishing an official stance on the matter (IMO, it should simply state that the DII programs want to participate with DIII programs, they are to fully follow the DIII rules and regulations to the fullest extant possible within a DII athletic department – and might even contain some distinct DII “benefits” that the hockey programs must strive to avoid), there is nothing else that DIII should do. Yes, there are benefits for DIII, but the DII problem belongs to - and must be solved by - the DII teams, DIII can no longer be an “enabler” that allows the DII to continue to ignore the issue.

IMO, DIII does NOT need DII, they can accommodate and if implemented properly, potentially benefit from the DII's participation, but the DIII will be fine without them.

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Bottomline money they play the bulk of their schedule against teams from Mass and within a 1 hour to 2 hour radius including the other half of their schedule which is against Mass Privates in the ECAC Northeast saves on the budget makes the AD and Presdient happy and in the end cheaper tuition for the student not only instate but they have deals for out of state and international kids as well. Some of these teams rinks are terrible Framingham, Worcester, to name a few but most of them are pretty decent like Salem's, Fitchburg, obviously Plymouth State's new home is going to be nice. But nothing can beat a cheap quality education.

Besides some closer games, can someone tell me

why the MASCAC is more appealing than the East?

I think the East has better teams, better facilities and better appeal to parents and players than a MA state league.

I think the Fri - Sat is better than the Random MASCAC schedule, and if the East plays everyone twice play each D-II school once and start on Oct 15, then they are looking at 9 non-conference games and their proximity to NE and West schools will allow them a good choice of Non Conference games. I think it is easier simpler and better to stay in the East unless I am missing something about the MASCAC.

If SME and Boston stay in the East they are not changing anything unless other schools approach them about joining like Manhattanville, Utica, Curry or Wentworth.

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

The DII's already play by the same rules and have for years and are handicapped even more because their recruits have to pass the clearinghouse and yet still abide by DIII rules otherwise they should seperate and tell their AD's that either they want to go ACHA Div. I and play for a National Championship because you only need 6 teams in a conference to get an AQ for ACHA Div. I or tell their AD's that they are going to compete as a DII to the fullest extent and play theire 32 or 37 games or whatever is allowed under DII and play D1 and D3 programs as an NCAA Independent. I don't know why they don't force the AD's and say hey we are going to play the max games and continue to spend more money like the NCAA tells us unless you knuckle heads actually contact the NCAA and propose something and change the legislation for this particular sport. The coaches cannot do it it has to be the AD's and Presidents that get together and go to the NCAA and request the changes.

I certainly agree with you, the DII's for the most part, ALREADY follow the DIII rules, and the DIII teams shouldn't have any significant problem competing against them, nor should the DII programs find it difficult to meet any restrictions placed on them. I also agree it is NOT the student-athletes nor the hockey programs and NOT the DIII administration that present the biggest hurdle to allowing DII full DIII participation. What is? The lack of a coordinated, sincere effort of the DII administration to make it happen.

[joecct]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Bottomline money they play the bulk of their schedule against teams from Mass and within a 1 hour to 2 hour radius including the other half of their schedule which is against Mass Privates in the ECAC Northeast saves on the budget makes the AD and Presdient happy and in the end cheaper tuition for the student not only instate but they have deals for out of state and international kids as well. Some of these teams rinks are terrible Framingham, Worcester, to name a few but most of them are pretty decent like Salem's, Fitchburg, obviously Plymouth State's new home is going to be nice. But nothing can beat a cheap quality education.

If there are breaks for out of state kids at Salem State, that is news to me. We've been told from day 1 that the financial aid is reserved for in-state kids.

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

the puck is in the hands of USM and UMass Boston. We await them to decide.

And I think I just gave you your answer...

[scoopnroll]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner someone who gets it! I agree with Norm other than there is no for the most part they follow DIII rules no they do follow DIII rules they get no benefits they only get need based financial aid and academic scholarships, since they had been members of the ECAC East and ECAC Northeast they could not give athletic scholarships it was already established.

I guess Cooperalls it would be too hard for one Coach to draft a letter stating what they wanted to be proposed and each AD Sign it as if they had written it and send it in to the NCAA to vote on it.

The one thing I can't get is that the NCAA Div. III Rules Committee why are the wasting time messing with the game when they should be looking to expand the tournament field to more teams and changing current rules or how about changing the rules to allow DII schools which basically have DIII hockey teams to play and compete and have almost all or the same benefits that all DIII members have. Why not grow the sport. There was a time when D1, D2, and D3 all played against each other. If DIII and DII schools can move up in a sport then it should be allowed as the school abides by the rules of DIII in that sport should be able to compete at that level so long as the majority of schools wants them in their conference. Rules committee uh lets see halfies or cages. How about the DECLINE of COLLEGE ICE HOCKEY IN GENERAL!!!!!! DO SOMETHING IMPORTANT FOR A CHANGE RATHER THAN THINK ABOUT DOING SOMETHING TO CHANGE HOW PEOPLE PLAY THE GAME THAT IS AN INSULT TO ALL THE PLAYERS AND ALUMNI THAT PLAYED 10,20,30, 40 YEARS AGO! That's like saying that hockey in the 80's sucked that is why Gretzky was so good.

The only people that I see having a problem with the DII"s playing DIII are the tightwads that got rid of UM Crookston in the West all because if the DII's were allowed to play it would give the East a 2 -1 ratio in bids to the NCAA. Get over it time to expand the sport there are varsity teams in Michigan, Iowa, Missouri, and PA that are fully funded programs that the ECAC and those schools probably no nothing about.

The DII's already play by the same rules and have for years and are handicapped even more because their recruits have to pass the clearinghouse and yet still abide by DIII rules otherwise they should seperate and tell their AD's that either they want to go ACHA Div. I and play for a National Championship because you only need 6 teams in a conference to get an AQ for ACHA Div. I or tell their AD's that they are going to compete as a DII to the fullest extent and play theire 32 or 37 games or whatever is allowed under DII and play D1 and D3 programs as an NCAA Independent. I don't know why they don't force the AD's and say hey we are going to play the max games and continue to spend more money like the NCAA tells us unless you knuckle heads actually contact the NCAA and propose something and change the legislation for this particular sport. The coaches cannot do it it has to be the AD's and Presidents that get together and go to the NCAA and request the changes.