Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

[nefan]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

The Norwich game was an exhibition because it came before the official opening of Interlock play as I recall - Norwich agreed to play Curry, but the only date that they could work out was before the first weekend of play. Doesn't mean they didn't, it's just that it won't show up as a game that counts

True, but it was a good game and a nice crowd!!

[joecct]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

So let me get this right that after this meeting this week all Div. II schools most likely will not be allowed to be DIII status because no AD's at these schools are smart enough to propose legislation to the NCAA to allow them to play down in one sport.

Also it is apparent that the schools and coaches from the west only care about there own agendas and do not care about continued growth of college hockey and are against the D2's in the east because it gives them more teams.

Would the D2's be better dropping down like LVC did and being a fully sponsored ACHA Div. 1 team they could actually now play bigger name schools like Penn State and NAVY and actually compete for a National Championship?

the NESCAC meeting has no bearing on whether or not games vs. non-D-III schools count/don't count towards your D-III record.

The NCAA presidents decide that one at one of the annual conventions. But as others have said, it seems unlikely that a single sport and only 6 teams will get a waiver. I don't think they D-II presidents will want to split the division with some playing up @ D-I and some playing down at D-III with both eligible for national titles.

[NUProf]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

True, but it was a good game and a nice crowd!!

I don't disagree.

[NUProf]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

But as others have said, it seems unlikely that a single sport and only 6 teams will get a waiver. I don't think they D-II presidents will want to split the division with some playing up @ D-I and some playing down at D-III with both eligible for national titles.

You are thus saying that there aren't enough presidents that recognize that the situation posed by hockey is unique. Unique situations call for unique solutions.

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

You are thus saying that there aren't enough presidents that recognize that the situation posed by hockey is unique. Unique situations call for unique solutions.

Any solution to a "Unique situation", would be unique - aside from "doing nothing".

[NUProf]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Any solution to a "Unique situation", would be unique - aside from "doing nothing".

ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

So I stand corrected that "NO Presidents are smart enough" but who need to be told by the AD's at these schools to understand the significant impact that by not trying to change legislation and believe me the NCAA would listen if it was proposed by the proper authorities at the school. This is going to hurt the school overall as these student athletes are not on scholarship like the other sports offered at D2 so they are paying the $30-$40 grand to go to St. Mikes, or St. A's to play hockey and most likely will transfer.

It is a sad day when the people in charge have little or no knowledge of how a business is run for such a little amount of money. They probably make 3 times the return on their $150,000 to -$200,000 budget investment into hockey.

It really didn't hurt hockey back in the eighties and 90's when they grouped Div. 1 schools in with Div. 2 and Div. 3.

I wonder if it would help build a Div. 2 if one of these Div. 3 presidents proposed legislation to the NCAA to allow 1 sport mens and women's to move up from Div. 3 to Div. 2.

the NESCAC meeting has no bearing on whether or not games vs. non-D-III schools count/don't count towards your D-III record.

The NCAA presidents decide that one at one of the annual conventions. But as others have said, it seems unlikely that a single sport and only 6 teams will get a waiver. I don't think they D-II presidents will want to split the division with some playing up @ D-I and some playing down at D-III with both eligible for national titles.

[NUProf]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

With the NESCAC AD's meeting yesterday and the Presdients meeting on Wednesday I was wondering when the ECAC East schools are going to be notified of the decision. You have to believe that details of these meeting would leak by one of the members who isn't too happy by the outcome. I disagree with some that says the East would wait until next year to add teams if the interlock ends. With schedules arranged a year in advance any restructure of the East could happen very fast. Should be a very interesting for hockey in the East.

Any news? Enquiring minds want to know...

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Any news? Enquiring minds want to know...

Not yet...

[Henry]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Seems a shame that this can't be worked out. Hockey is always a unique situation. I believe some schools are allowed to compete at D 1 at the hockey level and D 3 in other sports. But that that exemption was grandfathered in. Seems a shame to maroon some teams in a D 2 that barely exists anymore. A compromise would seem to benefit all. D 2-D3 hockey only? The addition of St. Michael's and St. Anselm's would make a nice Lake Champlain circuit. By the way what is the differerence between D 2 and D3, scholarships?

[NUProf]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Seems a shame that this can't be worked out. Hockey is always a unique situation. I believe some schools are allowed to compete at D 1 at the hockey level and D 3 in other sports. But that that exemption was grandfathered in. Seems a shame to maroon some teams in a D 2 that barely exists anymore. A compromise would seem to benefit all. D 2-D3 hockey only? The addition of St. Michael's and St. Anselm's would make a nice Lake Champlain circuit. By the way what is the differerence between D 2 and D3, scholarships?

The possibility of scholarships. St. Mike's has scholarships in BB only. That makes their whole program D2. I think that is also true at St. A's

[hawk]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

It has been almost a week since the NESCAC meeting and you would expect the decision would of leaked by now. I have like everyone else been following the BP attempted clean up/cap well attempt in the gulf which makes the interlock decision small in comparision. Unfortunately that situation does not look good for an early resolution.

Hey just maybe the majority of NESCAC teams want to keep the national D3 champs on the schedule every year.

[hawkhockey]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Saint Anselm provides athletic scholarships(without any means testing) to 20 students/athletes that play Varsity basketball.According to the Athletic department and to the College Webpage, no other athlete receives an athletic scholarship.
For the record, St.A's has an enrollment of less than 2,000 and has fielded a Varsity hockey program since 1970.
It is my understanding that St.A's and St.Mike's are the only two schools in the NE 10 that do not offer scholarships to ANY other varsity athlete(baseball,football, lacrosse etc.) that is not related to basketball.

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Seems a shame that this can't be worked out. Hockey is always a unique situation. I believe some schools are allowed to compete at D 1 at the hockey level and D 3 in other sports. But that that exemption was grandfathered in. Seems a shame to maroon some teams in a D 2 that barely exists anymore.

This is because DI (when there is no moratorium) allows all D2 and D3 schools one sport per gender to play up. It just happens that hockey is the most popular sport for this, ESPECIALLY for the DIIs. The schools that are normally DII and the DIII schools that played up and offered scholarships prior to 2003 are still allowd to do so (those DIII schools are the "grandfathered" exception, there is no rule in DII for it to be an exception). It's not really a case of NCAA "Marooning" the six (formerly 7, with Minn-Crookston) DIIs, but rather a case of those schools opting not to play up to the DI level, thus marooning themselves. Granted, in these moratorium days there is nothing they can do about moving to DI or DIII, but that's only a temporary situation.

A compromise would seem to benefit all. D 2-D3 hockey only? The addition of St. Michael's and St. Anselm's would make a nice Lake Champlain circuit.

I absolutely agree, and this is by far not the first time a D2/3 National Collegiate Hockey be created on the men's side, à la the D1/2 NC in existence on the women's, has been suggested. It would be less of a solution, and more of a correction of a mistake. Remember, when the DIII schools were forced to play DIII (having previously played DII hockey in the absence of a DIII for that sport, thus allowing RIT, Elmira, and Plattsburgh the DII accolades mentioned in my signature), the DIIs were initially allowed to play down with them in order to preserve rivalries. That's how Bemidji State became 1986 Champions and 1985 runner-up. Then NCAA enacted a policy of playing in your division at all times (allowing for the DI play-up), and it has been so ever since.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

By the way what is the difference between D 2 and D3, scholarships?

Bingo.
EDIT: as those above me have said, it is a case of being able to offer athletic scholarships.

[joecct]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Cards

But would the NCAA allow D-II to split with some playing in a D-I championship and some playing in a D2/D3 national championship??

While I don't disagree with the arguement, I wonder if the NCAA or the D2 presidents would do such a thing. In effect, if they do what you propose, you end up with D2AA and D2A for only one sport.