>>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

[komey1]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

I agree with Tommy that Friday's game is the next most important game. RIT has never gotten past the semis in the AHA tournament. But they have never been the 1 seed, either. Win that, and Saturday becomes the next most important game. I don't know why that is so hard to fathom.

Anyway, for those OOC lovers (you know who you are), think about that RIT would have to win about 27 games to make the NCAAs and not get the automatic bid. I don't know if that would be enough because conference losses would kill the RPI because the other teams in conference don't do well OOC. And asking a team to do that is a herculean task.

Again, I am NOT saying I don't want care about these games. But making those 6 (now 7) out to be more important than conference games seems wrong to me.

[MattS]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

You know before this year, I used to like you.............

Awww...my feelings are hurt. If you would stop make stupid declarations and I won't have cause to point them out.

I agree with Tommy that Friday's game is the next most important game. RIT has never gotten past the semis in the AHA tournament. But they have never been the 1 seed, either. Win that, and Saturday becomes the next most important game. I don't know why that is so hard to fathom.

It's not hard to fathom. It's just wrong. Why? Because he stated that it was

the biggest game in school hostory

. It's stupid in my opinion. Is it an important game? Sure. Most important game this season? Sure. As you said, one of the most important games. Yeah I can see why you would say that. But the most important game in history. Nope. Why? Because RIT has been in this position before and I will argue has been in more important games, especially at the time they were played, in the past.

IF RIT makes it to the NCAA's then a debate about that game being the most important game in RIT's history make sense. But a conference semi-final game? Come on.

[komey1]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

It's not hard to fathom. It's just wrong. Why? Because he stated that it was . It's stupid in my opinion. Is it an important game? Sure. Most important game this season? Sure. As you said, one of the most important games. Yeah I can see why you would say that. But the most important game in history. Nope. Why? Because RIT has been in this position before and I will argue has been in more important games, especially at the time they were played, in the past.

IF RIT makes it to the NCAA's then a debate about that game being the most important game in RIT's history make sense. But a conference semi-final game? Come on.

I know Tommy can't spell - but did you happend to read the word NEXT in his post? It is the NEXT most important game because it's a milestone - and I know you guys love milestones - that RIT has not done that yet.

BTW - I looked. Holy Cross won 26 games and got a 15 or 16 seed when they went.

[WestsideTigersFan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

I agree with Tommy that Friday's game is the next most important game. RIT has never gotten past the semis in the AHA tournament. But they have never been the 1 seed, either. Win that, and Saturday becomes the next most important game. I don't know why that is so hard to fathom.

Anyway, for those OOC lovers (you know who you are), think about that RIT would have to win about 27 games to make the NCAAs and not get the automatic bid. I don't know if that would be enough because conference losses would kill the RPI because the other teams in conference don't do well OOC. And asking a team to do that is a herculean task.

Again, I am NOT saying I don't want care about these games. But making those 6 (now 7) out to be more important than conference games seems wrong to me.

You could make the case that the next game is always the most important if you stretch it far enough. I am not sure being the #1 seed is a tremendous advantage either way at this point, aside from the fact they get to play in the "non prime time" game on Friday and maybe that takes a little heat off. When you look at the 4 teams that have made it to the BCA the last 3 seasons, the level of competition was pretty darned even between them. Is the 1 vs.4 game that much easier than the 2 vs. 3? Maybe this year more so in other years but its not by much.

And your statement of having 27 wins being unfathomable, its been done, now granted it wasn't in some time and it was before the downsizing of the schedule, but depending upon how you do the math, its possible that RIT could have lost 2 more conference games, swept the OOC schedule and still been a viable option as an at large...but that's a whole different discussion, which would have put the team at 25 wins...not impossible at all.

To me there is a severe case of RIT fans ignoring this teams absolute struggles OOC and a generally apathetic attitude towards that fact. If this program is going to garner the national success and attention that I think we are all in agreement we want to see, its going to have to figure out a formula of players/style/etc. that has success outside of the AHA. Winning the AHA regular season title is worthless in and of itself. It garners you not much at all. Winning the conference tournament means everything in terms of AHA play the way the landscape is now, unless you are talented enough to put yourself in an at large bid position. Look at the AFA teams the past couple of seasons who won the AHA tournament and went on to enjoy some success in the NCAA's. They competed well against OOC opponents during the season and enjoyed a great deal of success. Think its any coincidence that they played well in the NCAA tournament armed with that confidence and experience? It's not. They figured out what was needed to compete at that level, used the experience in a positive way and got the job done on the big stage. OOC is a way to measure where you are as a program, how competitive you are on a larger scale and is a far better measuring stick of exactly where you are as a program than beating up on the AHA doormats 4 times a season and hoping against hope some bunch of hackers doesn't manage to steal one from you every blue moon.

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Matt, your the one who wants to make all the D-I noise, way to do that is make the tourament. RIT has never been higher then the semi-finals. When they played Air Force in the semis two years ago I said the same thing, and the same thing against Mercyhurst last year.

The AHA title, to me, means more than even the two National Championships. It would be a hugh step in building the program into a national contender with the fanfare we all want for the program. Biggest games in school history center around taking the team to place it where it has never been. I am guessing your problem is that you measure success against only the big boys, but you could not be more wrong. A champion wins more than one game against a big name team.

Your apparant lack of respect for that conference title shows a lack of respect for our team and makes me wonder why you consider yourself an RIT fan when you seem to be so upset with them all the time...

[MattS]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

I know Tommy can't spell - but did you happend to read the word NEXT in his post? It is the NEXT most important game because it's a milestone - and I know you guys love milestones - that RIT has not done that yet.

He made it perfectly clear, which is why I originally questioned him on it, that Friday's game was the most important in RIT history and then if they win, Saturday's game.

[XCTiger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

I'm liking what I'm seeing unfortunately it may not translate into the college game (still waiting on Knowles to breakout) but here's hoping it does

Knowles hit 90pts his last year in the BCHL but that was due to 64 assists. His 26g 64a lead his team the Surrey Eagles, but they weren't the strongest in the league and were swept in the first round of the playoffs. In his first season, Knowles had 49pts (22g 27a) over 57 games. He picked up another goal and 5 assists in 5 games in the playoffs that year. Over his 2 seasons in the BCHL his line was - 126games 49g 98a 147pts

Garbowsky in his first year with Powell River has similar number with 53pts over the regular season (26g 27a) over 51 games, and was 4th in scoring. Powell River has been one of the better BCHL teams all season. overall totals for this season - 60games 38g 35a 73pts. With another year to mature in juniors, it will be interesting to see what happens. Fact is though, he has been the man in the playoffs this year.

You right about the transition from jrs to NCAA. Numbers don't automatically translate. If it was a pure stats games, then recruiting would be a piece of cake. Heck even I could do it. The fact that Garbowsky is performing well in the playoffs gives me a little hope for the future though.

[MattS]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Matt, your the one who wants to make all the D-I noise, way to do that is make the tourament. RIT has never been higher then the semi-finals. When they played Air Force in the semis two years ago I said the same thing, and the same thing against Mercyhurst last year.

The AHA title, to me, means more than even the two National Championships. It would be a hugh step in building the program into a national contender with the fanfare we all want for the program. Biggest games in school history center around taking the team to place it where it has never been. I am guessing your problem is that you measure success against only the big boys, but you could not be more wrong. A champion wins more than one game against a big name team.

OK, I see where you are coming from now. I don't agree with it at all, but I get your reasoning.

Your apparant lack of respect for that conference title shows a lack of respect for our team and makes me wonder why you consider yourself an RIT fan when you seem to be so upset with them all the time...

Total BS Tom. Total BS. While I don't have much overall respect for the AHA and I can't understand why anyone would at this point, to extrapolate that I don't have respect for the RIT team is a stretch.

I'm not upset, I just have higher standards than you do. IMO, as long as RIT is in the AHA they should be playing for a conference title almost every year. NCAA's should be expected, not hoped for. I believe that having high standards and striving for them is a good thing. And when they are not achieved it's bad. I mean no disrespect at all to the players. As I would hope that they have the same high standards.

[Scott Biggar]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

The AHA title, to me, means more than even the two National Championships. ...

Tom,

You've had said a lot of things over the years that haven't translated well due to poor grammar and spelling. But your statement above is the absolute dumbest one of all time.

No league game in the history of league games will ever mean more than winning a national championship.

[komey1]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

And your statement of having 27 wins being unfathomable, its been done, now granted it wasn't in some time and it was before the downsizing of the schedule, but depending upon how you do the math, its possible that RIT could have lost 2 more conference games, swept the OOC schedule and still been a viable option as an at large...but that's a whole different discussion, which would have put the team at 25 wins...not impossible at all.

Only 2 teams this year have a shot at 27 wins before the tournament - Denver (which is already at 27) and Miami at 26. Not surprisingly they are the #1 and #2 seeds. Getting 27 wins means you had a dominant season. RIT this year has the 5th best record - the differance between them and the top 4 is that RIT played the 53rd best schedule. That is a function of the conference as a whole. That will improve some with the addition of Niagara, Robert Morris, and another non-conference game. Just saying that 27 wins is very difficult (maybe a better word than unfathmable)

To me there is a severe case of RIT fans ignoring this teams absolute struggles OOC and a generally apathetic attitude towards that fact. If this program is going to garner the national success and attention that I think we are all in agreement we want to see, its going to have to figure out a formula of players/style/etc. that has success outside of the AHA. Winning the AHA regular season title is worthless in and of itself. It garners you not much at all. Winning the conference tournament means everything in terms of AHA play the way the landscape is now, unless you are talented enough to put yourself in an at large bid position. Look at the AFA teams the past couple of seasons who won the AHA tournament and went on to enjoy some success in the NCAA's. They competed well against OOC opponents during the season and enjoyed a great deal of success. Think its any coincidence that they played well in the NCAA tournament armed with that confidence and experience? It's not. They figured out what was needed to compete at that level, used the experience in a positive way and got the job done on the big stage. OOC is a way to measure where you are as a program, how competitive you are on a larger scale and is a far better measuring stick of exactly where you are as a program than beating up on the AHA doormats 4 times a season and hoping against hope some bunch of hackers doesn't manage to steal one from you every blue moon.

So RIT has only played 4 years of confernence play and 5 overall in DI. This was the first year they didn't win an OOC game. So I don't know how you can say that RIT has not competed well there. This was also the first year that RIT didn't beat a top 20 team - and that is because nobody was ranked when they played them. Also, RIT outplayed teams (notably Colgate and St. Lawrence) this year when they rarely did that in OOC games. If RIT had played those games later in the year when the team gelled, I think they certainly could have won those games. I think RIT is still improving (most wins ever in the DI era) and will be winning more non-conference games in the future. However, you can't judge year by year because they teams are not always the same. This team turned out to be a very good team. I just don't get why you are BASHING this team for not winning a non-conference game and celebrating their complishments when they were not favored to win during the preseason.

AF won games because they got a superior goaltender in Volkening and had a really good couple of classes. Remember that they were a bottom-feeding CHA team before coming into the AHA. I have a feeling that they are going to be on a downslide with graduations. Even they didn't win a game this year in OOC.

I disagree with your take on winning AHA titles - I suppose you would trade those for a couple non-conference wins . They are tangible and show recruits that this is a winning program and that they will have a chance to play in the NCAAs. Yes, the OOC games are a measure of how you stack up. But wins and losses don't always tell the story. I thought they played well against Colgate and St. Lawrence and could/should have won them. THAT is good sign of progress as much as beating a Cornell team that was redefining itself and a Minnesota that was depleted.

[WestsideTigersFan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Only 2 teams this year have a shot at 27 wins before the tournament - Denver (which is already at 27) and Miami at 26. Not surprisingly they are the #1 and #2 seeds. Getting 27 wins means you had a dominant season. RIT this year has the 5th best record - the differance between them and the top 4 is that RIT played the 53rd best schedule. That is a function of the conference as a whole. That will improve some with the addition of Niagara, Robert Morris, and another non-conference game. Just saying that 27 wins is very difficult (maybe a better word than unfathmable)


So RIT has only played 4 years of confernence play and 5 overall in DI. This was the first year they didn't win an OOC game. So I don't know how you can say that RIT has not competed well there. This was also the first year that RIT didn't beat a top 20 team - and that is because nobody was ranked when they played them. Also, RIT outplayed teams (notably Colgate and St. Lawrence) this year when they rarely did that in OOC games. If RIT had played those games later in the year when the team gelled, I think they certainly could have won those games. I think RIT is still improving (most wins ever in the DI era) and will be winning more non-conference games in the future. However, you can't judge year by year because they teams are not always the same. This team turned out to be a very good team. I just don't get why you are BASHING this team for not winning a non-conference game and celebrating their complishments when they were not favored to win during the preseason.

AF won games because they got a superior goaltender in Volkening and had a really good couple of classes. Remember that they were a bottom-feeding CHA team before coming into the AHA. I have a feeling that they are going to be on a downslide with graduations. Even they didn't win a game this year in OOC.

I disagree with your take on winning AHA titles - I suppose you would trade those for a couple non-conference wins . They are tangible and show recruits that this is a winning program and that they will have a chance to play in the NCAAs. Yes, the OOC games are a measure of how you stack up. But wins and losses don't always tell the story. I thought they played well against Colgate and St. Lawrence and could/should have won them. THAT is good sign of progress as much as beating a Cornell team that was redefining itself and a Minnesota that was depleted.

Your earlier post mentioned HC's 26 win season a few years back, so its not out of the realm of possibility. Personally I don't think that HC team was as talented as this years RIT squad, so I don't think its an unreasonable statement.

As for your comments regarding OOC wins...the #1 word in your statement was "if"....well "if's" don't count for anything other than making yourself feel better after the fact. Just get it done. And you totally underestimate how good AFA was the past 2 seasons. It was WAY more than just Volkening stealing every game every night. They were VERY good. Just ask CC or Denver how good they were...or some of the other good squads that AFA took on in their OOC schedule. They were a very good team...was Volkening outstanding? Of course he was. But it was a lot more than just him. Give them their due, they were good. They've had an off season, no question, but guess what? They have the same odds of advancing to the NCAA's that RIT does right now...

You partially made my point about OOC for me by pointing out this is the first team that didn't manage to win at least 1 OOC game. There is a message there. You can say "if" as much as you want, it doesn't change reality and I am sure that each of their opponents has a few "if's" in their pockets as well that would have been pulled out as excuses had RIT beaten them.

You seem to make some relationship between winning the AHA regular season title and playing in the NCAA's. Guess what, there isn't one. NONE. AT ALL. All that does is determine seeding for the playoffs. That's it. And once the playoffs start its about winning 4 games...whoever strings together 4 wins goes to the big dance, whether they are the the 1 seed or the last seed...doesn't matter. That's the reward. Is the higher seed a bit of an easier road, sure. No question. But being the higher seed doesn't always matter, and RIT has learned that the hard way.

Winning the AHA regular season title says you were the best team in the conference. And it is an accomplishment that deserves acknowledgment. However, one should not confuse that with being a legitimate player on the national hockey landscape, which I think we can all agree is what we want the RIT program to be.

This is a good team that has worked hard. It's got some great players and even better human beings. They've worked hard, they have some hard work ahead of them. I am certain they will make every effort to finally bring home a NCAA birth and I honestly hope they do, it would be a tremendous feat.

[RITProf]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

They have the same odds of advancing to the NCAA's that RIT does right now...

Just to pick a nit. The above statement is not true. There are four teams left and they do not have equal odds of advancing. RIT, by virtue of its seeding (as you pointed out) has better odds. AFA has a tougher opponent in the semis and a good chance of having a tougher yet opponent in the finals. Can any of the four win? Absolutely. Are the odds equal? No way!

This site:

http://www.playoffstatus.com/atlanti...easonprob.html

puts the probabilities at:
RIT: 37%
SHU: 29%
AFA: 18%
CC: 16%

I don't know if that's definitive, but it seems reasonable ... and also effectively defines the value of the regular season.

Sorry ... way too much answer for picking one nit ... but I got curious.

Edit: One more point. With these probabilities, the chances are that RIT will not make the NCAAs! (37% RIT, 63% the rest of the field). Another illustration of why our expectations shouldn't be too high.

[komey1]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

As for your comments regarding OOC wins...the #1 word in your statement was "if"....well "if's" don't count for anything other than making yourself feel better after the fact. Just get it done. And you totally underestimate how good AFA was the past 2 seasons. It was WAY more than just Volkening stealing every game every night. They were VERY good. Just ask CC or Denver how good they were...or some of the other good squads that AFA took on in their OOC schedule. They were a very good team...was Volkening outstanding? Of course he was. But it was a lot more than just him. Give them their due, they were good. They've had an off season, no question, but guess what? They have the same odds of advancing to the NCAA's that RIT does right now...

I didn't say it was just Volkening - it was a couple good clases. Players like Ehn, Fairchild, and Flynn who were conference all stars. This Air Force team is not as good as the last couple years and Volkening is still there.

You partially made my point about OOC for me by pointing out this is the first team that didn't manage to win at least 1 OOC game. There is a message there. You can say "if" as much as you want, it doesn't change reality and I am sure that each of their opponents has a few "if's" in their pockets as well that would have been pulled out as excuses had RIT beaten them.

I think this is the BEST team RIT has had in the DI era. And they didn't win an OOC. They outplayed teams, but didn't win. That happens. Ask teams that played RIT in the past couple years. Even in wins they were stealing games. This year those games are being stolen.

You seem to make some relationship between winning the AHA regular season title and playing in the NCAA's. Guess what, there isn't one. NONE. AT ALL. All that does is determine seeding for the playoffs. That's it. And once the playoffs start its about winning 4 games...whoever strings together 4 wins goes to the big dance, whether they are the the 1 seed or the last seed...doesn't matter. That's the reward. Is the higher seed a bit of an easier road, sure. No question. But being the higher seed doesn't always matter, and RIT has learned that the hard way.

I never said that winning the AHA regular season has a relationship to playing in the NCAA's. In the past 3 years, only 1 #1 seed has one the AHA tournement - Air Force last year.

Winning the AHA regular season title says you were the best team in the conference. And it is an accomplishment that deserves acknowledgment. However, one should not confuse that with being a legitimate player on the national hockey landscape, which I think we can all agree is what we want the RIT program to be.

So after 5 years of DI you think RIT should be a national power? It's gonna take a while to get there. It's going to take a good string of championships AND the AHA to improve as a whole for RIT (or any other team) in the AHA to be a legitimate player. Air Force isn't considered a legitimate player I don't think. I think they were considered a GOOD team, but not a true player. It's going to take more than a couple good runs for that.

[WestsideTigersFan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

With regards to AFA, I just don't think you understand just how good those teams were those couple of years, and you could see it coming the year before that. Is this an off year for AFA? Certainly the results say so, and this years results should make it all the more clear it wasn't just Volkening making the difference every night. But make no mistake, I am sure there are plenty of guys in that locker room who will be able to draw upon the confidence and experience they have earned the last 2 seasons and ratchet up their level a bit for the tournament(s) ahead. But enough about AFA for now...

With regards to any relationship between winning the AFA regular season title and going to the NCAA's, you are the one who said something to the effect that it shows recruits they have a chance to go to the NCAA's ever year...well, the team that finishes with the 2 seed or 3 seed or the 8th seed for that matter has a shot to go to the NCAA's too...what would you rather have, a 3rd place finish in the regular season and a tournament championship and NCAA bid or another 1st place finish and a team that gets shown the door in the semi's and goes home to raise another AHA regular season champs banner the next season on opening night? I'll take option 1 every day.

The whole idea should be to build a team that can have success at the NEXT level...against better opponents, on bigger stages, because quite frankly if you do that, winning in conference takes care of itself because you put the talent level of your team far ahead of most everyone else in AHA anyway. Am I disappointed that in 5 years RIT hasn't become a player in terms of being a recognized power? NO. Not in the least. It's a long process. Am I happy at the progress in terms of where we are in comparison to where we need to be to accomplish that? Not totally.

[WestsideTigersFan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

I disagree with your take on winning AHA titles - I suppose you would trade those for a couple non-conference wins . They are tangible and show recruits that this is a winning program and that they will have a chance to play in the NCAAs.

With regards to AFA, I just don't think you understand just how good those teams were those couple of years, and you could see it coming the year before that. Is this an off year for AFA? Certainly the results say so, and this years results should make it all the more clear it wasn't just Volkening making the difference every night. But make no mistake, I am sure there are plenty of guys in that locker room who will be able to draw upon the confidence and experience they have earned the last 2 seasons and ratchet up their level a bit for the tournament(s) ahead. But enough about AFA for now...

With regards to any relationship between winning the AHA regular season title and going to the NCAA's, you are the one who said something to the effect that it shows recruits they have a chance to go to the NCAA's every year...well, the team that finishes with the 2 seed or 3 seed or the 8th seed for that matter has a shot to go to the NCAA's too...what would you rather have, a 3rd place finish in the regular season and a tournament championship and NCAA bid or another 1st place finish and a team that gets shown the door in the semi's and goes home to raise another AHA regular season champs banner the next season on opening night? I'll take option 1 every day.

The whole idea should be to build a team that can have success at the NEXT level...against better opponents, on bigger stages, because quite frankly if you do that, winning in conference takes care of itself because you put the talent level of your team far ahead of most everyone else in AHA anyway. Am I disappointed that in 5 years RIT hasn't become a player in terms of being a recognized power? NO. Not in the least. It's a long process. Am I happy at the progress in terms of where we are in comparison to where we need to be to accomplish that? Not totally.