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jnacc
12-20-2009, 03:33 PM
Travis Roy was the most famous example. Injured just 11 seconds into his college career at Boston University.

http://www.travisroyfoundation.org/pages/travis-bio.html

Can anyone here provide a single player whose scholarship was honored after giving a verbal commitment to a school

Can anyone provide any names of players whose scholarship were honored after they signed a letter of intent but had yet to be formally admitted into school, other than Carle.

Travis Roy and Telfort were already in school and playing.

brianvf
12-20-2009, 04:26 PM
Can anyone provide any names of players whose scholarship were honored after they signed a letter of intent but had yet to be formally admitted into school, other than Carle.

I guess Carle's case doesn't count or something. ;) :p

HarleyMC
12-20-2009, 05:01 PM
Can anyone here provide a single player whose scholarship was honored after giving a verbal commitment to a school

Can anyone provide any names of players whose scholarship were honored after they signed a letter of intent but had yet to be formally admitted into school, other than Carle.

Travis Roy and Telfort were already in school and playing.

Your attempt to question the NCAA verbal indicates you don't fully understand its intent and commitment. Although it is not a legally binding agreement, it is a promise. Moreover, it is typically more common for a player to recant on a verbal than the school. Nothing short of legal problems, a major violation of high school rules or academic failures would rescind a player’s verbal commitment to a scholarship. Even if the athlete was injured, in most cases the school would honor the commitment.

The intent and offer of the verbal commitment is more ineffable to the school’s coaching staff than the player for two reasons:

1) The public disclosure of a school withdrawing a verbal from a committed player is very difficult to overturn especially with the athlete’s high school. It may take a college coach a long time to overcome that perceived breech of trust.

2) Other college coaches will leverage it against a college or university that rescinds on a verbal commitment, stating that players can’t trust the school's level of commitment. That is extremely significant in the recruiting process. Mass media exposure to such a situation will inevitably attribute further disdain towards the rescinding school's recruiting reputation.

The National Letter of Intent or NLI is used to provide a certain amount of certainty to the NCAA college recruiting process. A player is guaranteed a scholarship for one year by the recruiting college. The player also agrees to attend that college for one year. All other colleges that are part of the NLI program have to stop trying to recruit the player. Once the letter of intent is signed it is legally binding on the college or university, not a coach or team. It is legally binding for only one college academic year. The NLI in itself does not guarantee an athlete a place on the team or playing time. Colleges that are actively recruiting a student-athlete will send them a National Letter of Intent which will include an official scholarship offer.

jnacc
12-20-2009, 05:34 PM
Your attempt to question the NCAA verbal indicates you don't fully understand its intent and commitment. Although it is not a legally binding agreement, it is a promise. Moreover, it is typically more common for a player to recant on a verbal than the school. Nothing short of legal problems, a major violation of high school rules or academic failures would rescind a player’s verbal commitment to a scholarship. Even if the athlete was injured, in most cases the school would honor the commitment.
.

Yes I understand what verbal is. I also know that schools do break them (rarely but it does happen) or they will ask the player to hold off for another year before signing (see Wisconsin). I have never known a school honoring a verbal if they player suffers a career ending injury,however.

My whole point was that Major A teams often use this as leverage over the NCAA in attracting players......"hey you didn't sign anything so are you sure the school will cover your costs if you are injured. We know that we would!"

HarleyMC
12-20-2009, 05:58 PM
Yes I understand what verbal is. I also know that schools do break them (rarely but it does happen) or they will ask the player to hold off for another year before signing (see Wisconsin). I have never known a school honoring a verbal if they player suffers a career ending injury,however.

For the reasons I have already alluded to, it is extremely rare for an NCAA school to rescind on a verbal. Although I don't know of any specific examples off hand, I'm willing to speculate that a school might consider offering at least a partial scholarship or some level of compensation as a gesture of goodwill to an athlete that incurs a "career ending" injury. It's commendable and good public relations. All other injuries would not warrant withdrawal of a verbal for reasons previously mentioned.


My whole point was that Major A teams often use this as leverage over the NCAA in attracting players......"hey you didn't sign anything so are you sure the school will cover your costs if you are injured. We know that we would!"

MJs use of misinformation, covert recruiting tactics and poor educational enrollment outcomes is exactly why CH Inc. and others are seeking to expose and clarify some of these dubious recruiting strategies and methods.

Runninwiththedogs
12-20-2009, 06:26 PM
Yes I understand what verbal is. I also know that schools do break them (rarely but it does happen) or they will ask the player to hold off for another year before signing (see Wisconsin). I have never known a school honoring a verbal if they player suffers a career ending injury,however.

My whole point was that Major A teams often use this as leverage over the NCAA in attracting players......"hey you didn't sign anything so are you sure the school will cover your costs if you are injured. We know that we would!"

Have you ever known a school that didn't? I at least stated an example of a student who had not yet played a game and whose scholarship was honored. Sure, it was a letter of intent. So what? You have zero examples of athletes with EITHER a verbal OR an LOI whose scholarships have not been honored, and yet you continue to make this claim. Find me an example. It's not going to be easy, I know, because it's just not that common, but if you're going to make wild claims it's not my problem if they are hard to prove.

Speculating here a bit, but when Budish was injured in football a few years ago and tDon came out and said he wanted the players only focusing on hockey, could it be because UMTC would have had to honor his scholarship anyway? I mean, in addition to the big fat hole in the recruitment class.

jnacc
12-20-2009, 06:38 PM
Have you ever known a school that didn't? I at least stated an example of a student who had not yet played a game and whose scholarship was honored. Sure, it was a letter of intent. So what? You have zero examples of athletes with EITHER a verbal OR an LOI whose scholarships have not been honored, and yet you continue to make this claim. Find me an example. It's not going to be easy, I know, because it's just not that common, but if you're going to make wild claims it's not my problem if they are hard to prove.
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You have provided one example.....I was simply asking for more. It is obvious that you cannot.

Runninwiththedogs
12-20-2009, 06:51 PM
You have provided one example.....I was simply asking for more. It is obvious that you cannot.

It's more than zero.

FreddyFoyle
12-20-2009, 10:10 PM
And I would venture to guess the best Canadian football and basketball players play in the NCAA because that's where they are most likely to get noticed by NFL and NBA scouts.

You could guess that, and probably be wrong. Which is why some in the CIS would like to see the current individual scholarship limit raised ... modifying the formula so that a school keeps the maximum pool of scholarship funds they have now, but allow them to divy it up so some top recruits can get more funding than just tuition. I guess this would make it more like the NCAA system.

The CIS scholarship limits are one of the reasons Canadian schools like SFU are joining or considering joining the NCAA. I believe it was the president of UBC who said that he "was tired of losing the best BC student athletes to the US, because they couldn't match those scholarships ..."

FreddyFoyle
12-20-2009, 10:23 PM
Do you have any valid and reliable data to substantiate that?


The coach of the University of New Brunswick has told me that one of the arguments he uses to try to convince top OHL grads to come to UNB and not the East Coast is to weigh the opportunity cost of losing their $15,000 per year education packages that some of them have ($60,000 in total) versus making $30 or $40,000 for one season in the Coast. Yes, I know they have 18 months from the end of their OHL career to start school without losing that education money for ever, but that is the argument he uses.

I'm not going to name names ... it is not my place and there are probably privacy issues with the players and their former teams. But most of all, it was told to me off the record, so it stays that way.

4four4
12-20-2009, 10:56 PM
This aint 1979 anymore. Minnesota doesn't have even a 1/3rd of the influence it once did. Time to move on.

I bet they do.

brianvf
12-20-2009, 11:08 PM
You have provided one example.....I was simply asking for more. It is obvious that you cannot.

I believe RWD was asking if you had an example of a NCAA school not honoring a scholarship after a player was injured.

You have provided zero examples...she was simply asking for one. It is obvious that you cannot.

:p :)

jnacc
12-21-2009, 05:22 AM
I believe RWD was asking if you had an example of a NCAA school not honoring a scholarship after a player was injured.

You have provided zero examples...she was simply asking for one. It is obvious that you cannot.

:p :)

What she has provided is the name of one athlete who had already signed a letter of intent. There is no example of a player who simply did a verbal and then was injured and had his scholorship honored. Zero is zero folks!

You are all aware that scholarships are not granted in four year blocks but are given anually. Players see the amount of money increased or decreased over the four years (another factor that the CHL uses against the NCAA).

There was one player on Lake Superior State who received a career ending injury (or so it was believed at the time). He finished out the year and then left the school. Two years later he surfaced playing in a CIS school. I was told that the school basically gave him a much reduced package, one not large enough to convince him to stay.

Dirty
12-21-2009, 06:26 AM
I heard from a guy in Massachusetts that this one player from the Northeast was going to play for a team but then he stubbed his toe on a La-Z-Boy his senior year of high school. The school he was going to play for not only revoked his scholarship, but the coach shot the kid, robbed the kid's family, took a deuce in the family room and told the kid's little sister that there is no Easter Bunny. The school then closed. After two years of difficult rehab and therapy the kid went to a CIS school and now he's a multi-millionaire selling rubber bands to hobos.

CIS >>>>>> NCAA

brianvf
12-21-2009, 08:23 AM
What she has provided is the name of one athlete who had already signed a letter of intent. There is no example of a player who simply did a verbal and then was injured and had his scholorship honored. Zero is zero folks!

:D

You seem to be very hung up on this one very rare tidbit, and trying to use it against the NCAA.

Does the CHL use it against the NCAA? Sure, why not.
Can they provide an example where it has actually happened? Good luck. ;)

:)

Hokydad
12-21-2009, 09:01 AM
:D

You seem to be very hung up on this one very rare tidbit, and trying to use it against the NCAA.

Does the CHL use it against the NCAA? Sure, why not.
Can they provide an example where it has actually happened? Good luck. ;)

:)

Cant because it does not happen. Kids bail on teams, walk away before LOI signed. Teams wont. They might push back and give you bad vibes, inform you of where you fit in etc but if kid smiles and shows up, they will honor it.

The Exiled One
12-21-2009, 09:30 AM
My whole point was that Major A teams often use this as leverage over the NCAA in attracting players......"hey you didn't sign anything so are you sure the school will cover your costs if you are injured. We know that we would!"
This makes no sense at all. You're implying that if a player agreed to play Major Junior, yet never signed a contract nor played even a minute, that the Major Junior club would pay four years of college tuition for him? What type of idiot player would fall for a line like that? If a player were to buy a BS premise like that, he's probably not smart enough to academically qualify for NCAA hockey anyway.

jnacc
12-21-2009, 04:46 PM
This makes no sense at all. You're implying that if a player agreed to play Major Junior, yet never signed a contract nor played even a minute, that the Major Junior club would pay four years of college tuition for him? What type of idiot player would fall for a line like that? If a player were to buy a BS premise like that, he's probably not smart enough to academically qualify for NCAA hockey anyway.

Lets backtrack here. The Major A team will say why wait to play until your 18 when you can play now as a 16 year old. Furthermore, would the NCAA team honor their commitment if you were to be hurt. Sign this contract and we will.

Like I said on my last post, schools are known to reduce scholarship packages for poor performance and injuries and all I was saying is the CHL uses this against the NCAA.

I was merely asking if it was standard practice for NCAA teams to honor verbal commitments in case of injury but there seems to be no proof one way or the other if they do....all we have is speculation.

This is merely one small tidbit, as the CHL uses many other points that I already explained in detail.

Runninwiththedogs
12-21-2009, 05:10 PM
What she has provided is the name of one athlete who had already signed a letter of intent. There is no example of a player who simply did a verbal and then was injured and had his scholorship honored. Zero is zero folks!


Well, you've provided me of zero examples where it's happened! Zero is zero!

The fact is, I sort of breezed into this thread and it was easy for me to come up with an answer. This thread is your whole life and you can't even support your own claim of an athlete with either a verbal or an LOI whose scholarship was rescinded because of an injury.

PS to my anonymous repper: Roger that. :)

scsutommyboy
12-21-2009, 06:25 PM
Can anyone here provide a single player whose scholarship was honored after giving a verbal commitment to a school

Can anyone provide any names of players whose scholarship were honored after they signed a letter of intent but had yet to be formally admitted into school, other than Carle.

Travis Roy and Telfort were already in school and playing.

I will give you a different example. SCSU recuited and signed this Ravendalen(sp) kid from Warroad his senior year of high school. Last year he got cut from his USHL team and ended up in the NAHL. He made a USHL team this year but isn't exactly a top player. Motzko will honor his scholarship and he will be on campus next fall even though he doesn't look like a D1 player. Is it the same siuation you are talking about? No, but if the kid looks to be a bust it really doesn't matter if he is injured or a healthy scratch...... I am almost certain if a recruit got hurt Motzko would honor his scholarship otherwise every other coach in the country would use it against him..