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jdr1
12-29-2009, 06:35 PM
Nice, like this news alot, hopefully the sioux win two this weekend!!

I wish I was going to the games this weekend, my cousin went and screwed that up.. She lives in the windy city but decides to get married in Rochester this weekend instead... I would have loved to go to a wedding and get to watch the sioux play twice on the road.. now its just a wedding.. boy did I get hosed!!!:mad:

LETS GO SIOUX!!!!!!

brianvf
12-29-2009, 08:14 PM
Quote on Frattin from Hakstol (from the Sioux blog):


Hakstol says Frattin returned to campus in good shape. "It's very apparent to me that he's done - not a little bit of work - a lot of work."


boy did I get hosed!!!:mad:

Yeah you did!

Dirty
12-29-2009, 08:52 PM
I wish I was going to the games this weekend, my cousin went and screwed that up.. She lives in the windy city but decides to get married in Rochester this weekend instead... I would have loved to go to a wedding and get to watch the sioux play twice on the road.. now its just a wedding.. boy did I get hosed!!!:mad:

My wedding hosing story is better, I think. I was planning on going to the Frozen Four in Denver. My moron, Bison fan of a cousin decides to have his wedding that weekend. Where does my cousin go on his honeymoon? Denver.:mad: :mad:

brianvf
12-29-2009, 10:49 PM
Herald article on Frattin's return:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/145889/group/home/


Im really impressed with the way Matt has handled everything right from Day One. He had other options. He probably chose the most difficult path in deciding to return to the University of North Dakota. He decided to do whatever it took.

Its tough to do things on your own, but he found a way, Hakstol said. Its very apparent to me that hes done. . . not a little bit of work. . . but a lot of work. Hes in very good condition judging by the two practices weve had which were pretty competitive practices.

Frattin is expected to address the media on Wednesday morning.

Sloe Gin
12-29-2009, 10:51 PM
My wedding hosing story is better, I think. I was planning on going to the Frozen Four in Denver. My moron, Bison fan of a cousin decides to have his wedding that weekend. Where does my cousin go on his honeymoon? Denver.:mad: :mad:

who honeymoons in Denver? :confused:

omahasioux1
12-30-2009, 12:13 AM
who honeymoons in Denver? :confused:A thundering turd.

Puck Swami
12-30-2009, 12:34 AM
Anyone else a little surprised by Frattin's mid-season return to UND hockey?

Essentially, he got a three month suspension for his alcohol-fueled summer. The lawnmower night arrest could have happened to anyone, but the DUI a month later was really appalling, not only because everyone knows how really serious DUIs are, but because the guy had already been arrested just a month earlier, and should have learned his lesson then. I would have expected UND to suspend him for the whole season at a minimum, and would not have been surprised to see him kicked out of school for good, given his rather blatant disregard for learning from his first mistake.

I would expect most Sioux fans to support Frattin's reinstatement, since the guy is a very good hockey player. But are there any UND posters who are still uncomfortable with the sentence fitting the crime (s)?

Sloe Gin
12-30-2009, 08:01 AM
Anyone else a little surprised by Frattin's mid-season return to UND hockey?

Essentially, he got a three month suspension for his alcohol-fueled summer. The lawnmower night arrest could have happened to anyone, but the DUI a month later was really appalling, not only because everyone knows how really serious DUIs are, but because the guy had already been arrested just a month earlier, and should have learned his lesson then. I would have expected UND to suspend him for the whole season at a minimum, and would not have been surprised to see him kicked out of school for good, given his rather blatant disregard for learning from his first mistake.

I would expect most Sioux fans to support Frattin's reinstatement, since the guy is a very good hockey player. But are there any UND posters who are still uncomfortable with the sentence fitting the crime (s)?

while I know UND's history of players with arrests and brushes with the law, I'm guessing there was a lot of behind-the-scene stuff that was happening here. Maybe the coaches had him doing some additional community service or youth programs or (wait for it) lawnmowing! Point is, Frattin might have shown the coaching staff something that made them feel he deserved reinstatement.

I say he should be on super-probation but otherwise, I'm happy to have him back.

wasmania
12-30-2009, 08:31 AM
Anyone else a little surprised by Frattin's mid-season return to UND hockey?

Essentially, he got a three month suspension for his alcohol-fueled summer. The lawnmower night arrest could have happened to anyone, but the DUI a month later was really appalling, not only because everyone knows how really serious DUIs are, but because the guy had already been arrested just a month earlier, and should have learned his lesson then. I would have expected UND to suspend him for the whole season at a minimum, and would not have been surprised to see him kicked out of school for good, given his rather blatant disregard for learning from his first mistake.

I would expect most Sioux fans to support Frattin's reinstatement, since the guy is a very good hockey player. But are there any UND posters who are still uncomfortable with the sentence fitting the crime (s)?

Too bad Denver keeps all their dirty laundry under wraps or we could have a contrast and compare discussion.

SJHovey
12-30-2009, 08:41 AM
Anyone else a little surprised by Frattin's mid-season return to UND hockey?

Essentially, he got a three month suspension for his alcohol-fueled summer. The lawnmower night arrest could have happened to anyone, but the DUI a month later was really appalling, not only because everyone knows how really serious DUIs are, but because the guy had already been arrested just a month earlier, and should have learned his lesson then. I would have expected UND to suspend him for the whole season at a minimum, and would not have been surprised to see him kicked out of school for good, given his rather blatant disregard for learning from his first mistake.

I would expect most Sioux fans to support Frattin's reinstatement, since the guy is a very good hockey player. But are there any UND posters who are still uncomfortable with the sentence fitting the crime (s)?

I'm a little surprised, but mostly because I didn't expect him back, especially at the mid-season point.

As you point out, I'm sure UND fans will welcome him back, and I'm equally sure the decision of Hak and his staff will be criticized far and wide by fans of other teams. Please understand I don't take your post as criticism, but as a fair question.

A few years ago I posted my opinion that I think it's unfair for those of us outside of a program to second guess the decision of a coaching staff on disciplinary matters. Simply because we don't have all of the facts and know what's gone on.

I kind of look at it like I do the neighbor's kids. I might not have disciplined them in the same way as my friends next door, but I feel somewhat uncomfortable judging from afar.

A DUI is a serious offense. Would I have handled discipline differently if I were the coach. Maybe. But I don't know Matt Frattin. I don't know the circumstances of the incident beyond what's been reported in the media. I don't know what Matt has done since the summer to rehabilitate himself in the eyes of the program. I'm just a guy at a computer, and sitting in the stands at a lot of the games, so I decline to say the decision was right or wrong.

jdr1
12-30-2009, 09:58 AM
My wedding hosing story is better, I think. I was planning on going to the Frozen Four in Denver. My moron, Bison fan of a cousin decides to have his wedding that weekend. Where does my cousin go on his honeymoon? Denver.:mad: :mad:

did you go with as the spare tire!!!:D

brianvf
12-30-2009, 10:13 AM
I'm a little surprised, but mostly because I didn't expect him back, especially at the mid-season point.

As you point out, I'm sure UND fans will welcome him back, and I'm equally sure the decision of Hak and his staff will be criticized far and wide by fans of other teams. Please understand I don't take your post as criticism, but as a fair question.

A few years ago I posted my opinion that I think it's unfair for those of us outside of a program to second guess the decision of a coaching staff on disciplinary matters. Simply because we don't have all of the facts and know what's gone on.

I kind of look at it like I do the neighbor's kids. I might not have disciplined them in the same way as my friends next door, but I feel somewhat uncomfortable judging from afar.

A DUI is a serious offense. Would I have handled discipline differently if I were the coach. Maybe. But I don't know Matt Frattin. I don't know the circumstances of the incident beyond what's been reported in the media. I don't know what Matt has done since the summer to rehabilitate himself in the eyes of the program. I'm just a guy at a computer, and sitting in the stands at a lot of the games, so I decline to say the decision was right or wrong.

My thoughts on it resemble the above.

Puck Swami
12-30-2009, 10:13 AM
Anytime a player runs afoul of the law multiple times, I think the outside scrutiny becomes much more fair game because it's not just a team or a school matter anymore. It's a matter of public record, and hurts the school's reputation.

The greater question in my mind is one of standards, and how much we are willing to bend them in the name of second (third?) chances and winning hockey games.

In short, I think that wearing a Sioux jersey should be one of the greatest privileges in all of sports. It is a jersey that carries a long and proud tradition with it, and I think the school should be be reserving it for those players who choose to live their lives in an appropriate manner.

Allowing Frattin back into the fold, I think, sends the wrong message around the country. It says essentially that 'boys will be boys', and as long as you're sorry for what you did (and can help us win), there is a jersey waiting for you, even when you are arrested multiple times and one of them is a very serious adult offense (DUI) that comes after a prior arrest. Frattin may have done wonderous things since his arrests, but I think mid-season is too soon for a return, given the gravity of what we all know he did. Hak should have waited until next year at a minimum. I am not knocking the Sioux here - there are a lot of schools that migth have let him back- I just think they missed an opportunity to hold the program to a higher standard.

As for Denver's dirty laundry, it's simply not comparable - Knock on wood, but no active Pioneer hockey player has been ever been arrested or convicted of a crime while enrolled at Denver in Gwozdecky's tenure since 1994. That's not to say the DU players are all choir boys (I am sure they are not) but so far, when an active DU player gets into serious off-ice trouble, even when the police are not involved, the evidence we have is that they no longer get to wear the DU uniform (See Trotter, Brock).

sfo19
12-30-2009, 10:19 AM
I'm a little surprised, but mostly because I didn't expect him back, especially at the mid-season point.

As you point out, I'm sure UND fans will welcome him back, and I'm equally sure the decision of Hak and his staff will be criticized far and wide by fans of other teams. Please understand I don't take your post as criticism, but as a fair question.

A few years ago I posted my opinion that I think it's unfair for those of us outside of a program to second guess the decision of a coaching staff on disciplinary matters. Simply because we don't have all of the facts and know what's gone on.

I kind of look at it like I do the neighbor's kids. I might not have disciplined them in the same way as my friends next door, but I feel somewhat uncomfortable judging from afar.

A DUI is a serious offense. Would I have handled discipline differently if I were the coach. Maybe. But I don't know Matt Frattin. I don't know the circumstances of the incident beyond what's been reported in the media. I don't know what Matt has done since the summer to rehabilitate himself in the eyes of the program. I'm just a guy at a computer, and sitting in the stands at a lot of the games, so I decline to say the decision was right or wrong.

Brendan Smith. 2 DUI's - One game suspension. (A Wisco fan can correct me if I am wrong). Punishment really fit the crime there. :rolleyes:

In regards to Matt, I'm glad he's back. It took a lot of committment to stick with it and not give up and pursue other hockey options. I'm surprised he's back right now... but I was expecting him back at some point. Additionally, it's not fair to judge the circumstances and decisions made if you are not there.

Slap Shot
12-30-2009, 10:26 AM
Too bad Denver keeps all their dirty laundry under wraps or we could have a contrast and compare discussion.

This might be true wasmania, but Swami is about a fair an individual as it comes at USCHO and I believe he'd scrutinize this situation every bit the same way if Frattin were a Pioneer.

Sloe Gin
12-30-2009, 10:28 AM
Brendan Smith. 2 DUI's - One game suspension. (A Wisco fan can correct me if I am wrong). Punishment really fit the crime there. :rolleyes:

yeah, typical classy 'Sconni. :rolleyes:

As I said earlier, there might be a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff going on that we don't know about. I'm guessing this decision wasn't easy and wouldn't have been done unless the coaching staff knew exactly what they were doing.

Also. is this a sign that they might redshirt Chay?

brianvf
12-30-2009, 10:33 AM
Also. is this a sign that they might redshirt Chay?

I doubt the Frattin/Genoway situations have anything to do with each other.
Possibly the Zajac injury played a role in Frattin's earlier-than-anticipated return, but not the Genoway injury.

SJHovey
12-30-2009, 10:45 AM
Anytime a player runs afoul of the law multiple times, I think the outside scrutiny becomes much more fair game because it's not just a team or a school matter anymore. It's a matter of public record, and hurts the school's reputation.

The greater question in my mind is one of standards, and how much we are willing to bend them in the name of second (third?) chances and winning hockey games.

In short, I think that wearing a Sioux jersey should be one of the greatest privileges in all of sports. It is a jersey that carries a long and proud tradition with it, and I think the school should be be reserving it for those players who choose to live their lives in an appropriate manner.

Allowing Frattin back into the fold, I think, sends the wrong message around the country. It says essentially that 'boys will be boys', and as long as you're sorry for what you did (and can help us win), there is a jersey waiting for you, even when you are arrested multiple times and one of them is a very serious adult offense (DUI) that comes after a prior arrest. Frattin may have done wonderous things since his arrests, but I think mid-season is too soon for a return, given the gravity of what we all know he did. Hak should have waited until next year at a minimum. I am not knocking the Sioux here - there are a lot of schools that migth have let him back- I just think they missed an opportunity to hold the program to a higher standard.

As for Denver's dirty laundry, it's simply not comparable - Knock on wood, but no active Pioneer hockey player has been ever been arrested or convicted of a crime while enrolled at Denver in Gwozdecky's tenure since 1994. That's not to say the DU players are all choir boys (I am sure they are not) but so far, when an active DU player gets into serious off-ice trouble, even when the police are not involved, the evidence we have is that they no longer get to wear the DU uniform (See Trotter, Brock).

I don't think it takes multiple offenses to be fair game for outside scrutiny. We're all entitled to our opinion on the matter. I simply indicated I don't intend to publicize mine since I don't feel I have enough information.

I don't envy coaches placed in this position. I recall a UND player a few years ago, I think Matt Greene, got a DUI over in MN while he was still on the team. I think he was suspended for a game or series, and I think the program and coaches probably caught some heat for that.

I went back and looked at the original story on Frattin's release, and it ended with Hak saying Matt's situaton could be reviewed later in the season.

The arrests and the charges always bring a big news splash, lots of second guessing, etc..., but not so much with the final outcome.

Whatever happened to the players in the lawnmower incident? What was the outcome of Matt's DUI arrest? I only ask because, again, this is information I don't have, and makes it that much tougher for me to judge.

Puck Swami
12-30-2009, 10:46 AM
This might be true wasmania, but Swami is about a fair an individual as it comes at USCHO and I believe he'd scrutinize this situation every bit the same way if Frattin were a Pioneer.

If Frattin were a Pioneer, I'd say the exact same thing. I would not want to win games with players that did not deserve the privilege of wearing the jersey of a great program, be it UND, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Denver, CC or anyone else - I think high standards are worth upholding, and if my own school did not display high standards, I wouldn't hestitate to call them on it.

sfo19
12-30-2009, 11:24 AM
I don't think it takes multiple offenses to be fair game for outside scrutiny. We're all entitled to our opinion on the matter. I simply indicated I don't intend to publicize mine since I don't feel I have enough information.

I don't envy coaches placed in this position. I recall a UND player a few years ago, I think Matt Greene, got a DUI over in MN while he was still on the team. I think he was suspended for a game or series, and I think the program and coaches probably caught some heat for that.

I went back and looked at the original story on Frattin's release, and it ended with Hak saying Matt's situaton could be reviewed later in the season.

The arrests and the charges always bring a big news splash, lots of second guessing, etc..., but not so much with the final outcome.

Whatever happened to the players in the lawnmower incident? What was the outcome of Matt's DUI arrest? I only ask because, again, this is information I don't have, and makes it that much tougher for me to judge.

Matt hasn't gone to court yet for the DUI. He entered a not guilty plea in November and the case goes to court in February if I can recall. His punishment for the lawnmower incident was a fine and a 10 day jail sentence suspended for one year.