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Third Family Member
11-26-2009, 09:19 PM
The only escalating penalties that I'm aware of are game DQs. This is covered in rule 4-5-a.

Game misconducts (but not, IIRC, DQs, I can't check it easily because I don't think anyone's gotten a DQ in an ND game so far) carry a notational 10 PIM that go in the box score and against the player's record, but aren't actually served by anyone. You'll see that both Thang and Cole got those in the MSU game. According to the box score, neither was assessed a 10 min. misconduct, the 10 PIM for each are associated with the game misconducts.

I'm not sure where the stat-keeping is codified. I did not find it in the playing rules (misconducts are covered in 4-4).

Thanks Craig, easily understood explantion. Finally.

Craig P.
11-27-2009, 12:23 AM
Found it. It's in the statistician's manual. I was wrong, a DQ also carries a notational 10 PIM, the same as a game misconduct.

It's a little trickier to get to the statistician's manual than it is the playing rules, but you can follow a few links at ncaa.org to get there.

IrishHockeyFan
11-27-2009, 04:14 PM
For point of confirmation you can look at the box (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0809/boxes/mndmosu1.f06) from last year's ND win over OSU in Columbus. Ian Boots was assessed a 5 minute major for spearing, which includes an additional game disqualification penalty. The notation is the similar (10 - game disqualification) as one would see for the game misconduct (10 - game misconduct).

Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.
11-27-2009, 11:00 PM
I wonder how it is that the opposing team goalies who are not having great seasons (read: sucky stats) can come in here and look like a brick wall... The flood gates have to open soon...don't they?

I also wonder why CCHA refs blow... They missed blatant penalties on both sides. For the record, the BG player turned to his side when Calle Ridderwall checked him. Yes, it should have been boarding. It should not have been a 5-minute CFB.

Mike Johnson played well from the 16 second mark on. Brett Blatchford had a good game. Teddy Ruth had a good game. Ian Cole had a good game. Especially with 2.4 seconds left in OT. ;)

I have to hand it to BG and their new coach, though. They played a more cohesive, team-like game than I've seen in the past.

Having said that, I still want my team to sweep them. I'd be willing to bake a batch of molasses cookies for each ND player who can score a goal tomorrow.

Here's to having to make a serious grocery run Sunday!

IrishHockeyFan
11-28-2009, 08:57 AM
Last night's game was a 50/50 proposition for me. I am happy with the win. But I'm not happy with the path to the three points. This team will go no where when it counts without learning to play for 60 minutes (or as in the case last night 65). And they will not beat teams of equal or greater talent if they continue to play the tentative brand of offense they have been displaying pretty much since opening night. I lost count last night of the number of decent scoring chances that evaporated into either an ineffective shot, or worse yet, no shot at all. They'd gain an advantage between the blue lines, skate into BGs zone on a 3-on-2 (and once 4-on-2) and get nothing. This problem simply has to be solved. Now.

I liked how Thang played in his return. Good jump from the get-go and he can blame nothing other than bad luck (or maybe the typically bad Joyce Center ice) on not scoring a couple of times. I like how Palmieri played up to and including the wicked shot he unleashed for his goal. After that...? He needs to also begin making better decisions for 60 minutes. Again, too many scoring chances died on his stick somewhere south of the circles. One fewer move, one better advised pass, will lead to one more good scoring chance. And good scoring chances will lead to goals.

At least the trend over the last 6 games is moving in the correct direction, two losses followed by two ties and now two wins. Its been a tough season so far, though I do see some things moving in a positive direction and improvement over the first few games. But still too much that has stagnated.

This series marks Notre Dame's 7th 2-gamer of the season and only the third they have a chance to sweep. No disrespect meant to BG, but this is a series Notre Dame can sweep and NEEDS to sweep. But the Irish hockey team must remember if the enemy is in range, so are you.

*edit* The UND.com site needs to do a much better job covering this team, by the way. They've shown over the last few seasons that they are a major player in the college hockey world, and the interest level is light-years ahead of where it was just 3 or 4 years ago. After all they managed to attract enough people to the Joyce on a holiday weekend with the students long gone to fill the place. Traditional media is limited to just a couple of articles a week, and often none if the team has a weekend off. Notre Dame hockey deserves the publicity and the fans deserve a little more information and coverage. I hear the football coach is on the hotseat, but they aren't exactly breaking that story or leading in its reporting.

Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.
11-28-2009, 10:18 AM
I have to admit, when I heard Coach Jackson claim that they played possibly their worst 3rd period so far, I was confused.

UAH...Providence...? Both of those games were lost in the 3rd period. But then I realized, they did give up several odd-man rushes late that could've been reminiscent of those aforementioned losses.

I have to agree with the grrr implied in IHF's post. What's up with the odd-man rushes for, and then never even getting a shot off?! Just. Put. The. Puck. On. Net. Wayne Gretzky said it best, "You don't score on 100% of the shots you don't take."

Let's go boys. Generate more offense.

Third Family Member
11-28-2009, 01:26 PM
Having said that, I still want my team to sweep them. I'd be willing to bake a batch of molasses cookies for each ND player who can score a goal tomorrow.

Here's to having to make a serious grocery run Sunday!

What happens if they want peanut butter? Or chocolate chip? Or, yum, chocolate drop?? Can you make me a batch, a small batch, or chocolate drop cookies that I can take with me to the airport tomorrow????? Please?

Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.
11-28-2009, 02:56 PM
What happens if they want peanut butter? Or chocolate chip? Or, yum, chocolate drop?? Can you make me a batch, a small batch, or chocolate drop cookies that I can take with me to the airport tomorrow????? Please?

PB cookies would be fine, too. Fudge would be acceptable. I don't care what they want...I'll bake it if it means more goals! (Disclosure: I make the best PB and molasses cookies going, and my fudge is tasty too. After that, there's a huge dropoff...)

And, no, I won't make chocolate drop cookies. Blech. If I can't stand them, I don't make them.

IrishHockeyFan
11-28-2009, 10:03 PM
Well, I don't know about the rest of the crowd, but I am getting worried. I think we are seeing more and more that this team is really by now a reflection of their record. Just a little better than mediocre. Sadly, they are just a little better than mediocre because they appear still to be loaded with talent, not that they have worked more out of their talent than you'd otherwise expect. But they are not putting it together as a group of 19 guys (or as the case tonight 20). It isn't just a factor of them not taking BG seriously enough. As a team, maybe they just aren't that much better. I find it hard to comprehend that this much talent, coupled with this coaching staff needs to find themselves in 2 overtime games with the Falcons, but here we are. The most frustrating thing is how many times guys haven't bailed each other out. In the recent seasons, we saw time and time again, players picking each other up and a bad play didn't necessarily end up in the back of the net. Now, more often that not it seems to.

Perhaps it was asking too much for them to continue on after the graduation of such a stellar class, because up to now, they miss those guys more than they've missed anyone for 3 years running. The good thing is there is still plenty of season left to begin gelling. The bad news is there is little evidence that it is happening anytime soon.

Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.
11-28-2009, 10:05 PM
Things I'm happy about: Calle Ridderwall scores the hat trick.

Things I'm annoyed at: Not one fan threw a hat onto the ice.

Things I'm happy about: Ryan Thang finally got back on the scoresheet.

Things I'm annoyed at: He had to score to send the game (against BG) to OT.

Things I'm happy about: ND didn't give up a PPG.

Things I'm annoyed at: They sure gave BG lots of opportunities, though.

Things I'm happy about: ND scored more than 3 goals.

Things I'm annoyed at: Brad Phillips allowed more than 3 goals.

Things I'm happy about: ND scored 5 x 5.

Things I'm annoyed at: BG scored 5 x 5...four times.

Things I'm happy about, and yet also annoyed at: I think Coach Jackson found his starting goaltender.

Get ready for Miami, boys.

crazy_guy_in_section_1
11-29-2009, 12:52 AM
Things I'm happy about: Calle Ridderwall scores the hat trick.

Things I'm annoyed at: Not one fan threw a hat onto the ice.

Things I'm happy about: Ryan Thang finally got back on the scoresheet.

Things I'm annoyed at: He had to score to send the game (against BG) to OT.

Things I'm happy about: ND didn't give up a PPG.

Things I'm annoyed at: They sure gave BG lots of opportunities, though.

Things I'm happy about: ND scored more than 3 goals.

Things I'm annoyed at: Brad Phillips allowed more than 3 goals.

Things I'm happy about: ND scored 5 x 5.

Things I'm annoyed at: BG scored 5 x 5...four times.

Things I'm happy about, and yet also annoyed at: I think Coach Jackson found his starting goaltender.

Get ready for Miami, boys.


Couldn't have said it more clearly!

IrishHockeyFan
11-29-2009, 09:05 AM
...I think Coach Jackson found his starting goaltender.



I hate trying to post about Jackson's goaltending intentions, because unless I actually know something, my speculation has more often than not been proven wrong, going back to his first season here and the battle between David Brown and Jordan Pearce. This has been the area where Jackson has been hardest to read. I don't disagree at all who I think SHOULD be starting, but I just don't believe we are yet to that point with the guy who matters most.

I also hate how all too often when a goalie gives up a number of bad goals, coaches especially, but also fans, tend to give the netminder too much of a pass with observations that his defense let him down, or they walked in 3-on-1, or other similar remarks. But after the game Jackson appeared to try to put his comments somewhere in the middle of that road last night. I think if you read between the lines though, it is clear where he put much of the blame for last night's outcome being worse than Friday's. You don't even have to read between the lines to see where he puts much of the credit for Friday's win. Will this lead him to finally decide on a clear number 1? Who knows? In Alaska he started Johnson both nights, unexpectedly, and Johnson responded with a loss the second night, although he didn't play particularly poorly. But it seems clear to me that his play warrants an extended chance to be the starter, as has the fact that he simply has not let in the number of bad goals that, unfortunately, Brad Philips has.

Sadly, the problems this team has faced in winning consistently this year go way beyond who is between the pipes. The struggles breaking out the puck from their own end; the continued lack of physical play in the neutral zone and along their own blueline; the backwards or totally out of whack approach to SOG (shoot when the shot isn't there, hold the puck or pass it once again when it is, or try to make that last extra move to shake a defender when you're already to the bottom of the faceoff circles); the completely out of character of a Jeff Jackson coached team of selfishness displayed by a couple of their more highly regarded players; the list is long.

I guess on the one hand, there was similar gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands (and of wanting to wring a few necks) 5 years ago when this team was 4-8-4 after 16 games. We were all trying to figure out why a team coming off a 20 win season and its first NCAA trip could struggle that much. While no one probably expected the crash and burn that followed -- 1 more win in the final 22 games -- by that time I also don't know how many expected a miracle turnaround for a second trip to the NCAAs. My how expectations have changed. Because while I'm not sure what to expect this season, I know I believe THIS team still CAN be great.

WeAreNDHockey
11-29-2009, 10:49 AM
I guess on the one hand, there was similar gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands (and of wanting to wring a few necks) 5 years ago when this team was 4-8-4 after 16 games. We were all trying to figure out why a team coming off a 20 win season and its first NCAA trip could struggle that much. While no one probably expected the crash and burn that followed -- 1 more win in the final 22 games -- by that time I also don't know how many expected a miracle turnaround for a second trip to the NCAAs. My how expectations have changed. Because while I'm not sure what to expect this season, I know I believe THIS team still CAN be great.

I just commented the other day about the old Florida football coach Doug Dickey, who said "I'd rather be 7-3 than 9-1. When you're 7-3 they talk about the 7 you won, but when you're 9-1 they talk about the 1 you lost." Expectations can be a bear.

IrishHockeyFan
11-30-2009, 03:11 PM
A nice little bit of local recognition (http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20091130/Opinion/911300318/1063/Opinion) for the hockey players and coaches.

Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.
12-01-2009, 11:56 AM
This weekend should be gut check time for the Irish. Miami is en fuego this season as they've experienced no lull from playing for the NC.

The Redhawks are 9-2-5 overall. They are 3-1-4 in November. ND is 7-5-4 overall and nearly identical to Miami in the month of November, going 3-2-3. Top scorers for both teams are pretty interchangeable, with one PPG-scorer exception.

Miami is led by Andy Miele with 16 points. He's followed by Jarod Palmer (14 points), Carter Camper (13), Curtis McKenzie (12) and Tommy Wingels (11). Palmer, Camper and Wingels are their PPG leaders with 2 each.

ND is led by Billy Maday with 15 points. He's followed by Calle Ridderwall with 14 points, Ben Ryan (13), Kyle Lawson and Kevin Deeth (each with 11) and Riley Sheahan (10). Ridderwall leads the team in PPG's with 6. He is on a pace to handily beat his totals from last season. :)

Miami is +64 as a team. They average 3.0 GF and give up 2.0 GA/game. Their PP and PK are both decent at 16.9% and 86.8%, respectively. They have 11 players who've registered PPG's. They average just under a PPG for (14 total) and against (12 total)/game. Miami's best O by far occurs in the 2nd period. Exactly half of their goals have come in the middle stanza. It's also their weakest D, as their opponents have scored more than half of their goals during the 2nd.

ND is -23 (giving up four 5 x 5 goals in a game can do that to you...). They average 2.38 GF, while giving up a scant 1.88 GA/game. ND's PP is good at 21.2%. Their PK is great at 91.2%. ND has 8 players who've scored PPG's. They've scored 18 PPG's for, which is better than one a game. They've given up just 6 PPG's against, for less than a half a PPG/game. ND's O is pretty steady throughout the game, as is their D, believe it or not.

I believe Coach Jackson will go with Mike Johnson for both games (unless he stinks Friday...). Johnson is 4-2-2 with a nation-leading GA of 1.35 and also a nation-leading save % of .947.

Miami's goaltenders have basically split time in net, save for a brief stint in the middle of their young season. Cody Reichard usually is in net Fridays. He's 8-1-2 with a GA of 1.59 and a save % of .927. Connor Knapp is 1-1-3 with a GA of 2.58 and a save % of .900. I assume they will both play this weekend.

Aside from the +/- and the overall record, ND matches up pretty well with Miami. Here's to a successful trip to Ohio.

There's no such thing as failure...only early attempts at success.

IrishHockeyFan
12-01-2009, 09:21 PM
I wonder if the team will feel more settled if Jackson decides he's seen enough to name a clear #1 goalie. I certainly feel for Brad Philips because he's worked so hard in his rehab, and he's truly a good kid, got a great heart, and is at Notre Dame for all the right reasons. But at the end of the day, everyone connected to the team has an obligation to do what they can to win, and its obvious, at least right now, that Johnson is giving the team the best chance to win.

I'm still worried about this team a little in the third period. They've gotten away a little bit from giving away the points in the last period (the last 4 games they've failed to win the outcome wasn't decided against them in the third), but they are still not the dominant last period team they had become known as. I think a lot of that had to do with Teddy Ruth being absent, and now that he's fully back into the swing of things, they are not running just 4 D-men out there at the end. Last weekend, all 6 guys saw the ice regularly in the last period, even Eric Ringel. That has helped.

If we can get the goalie situation a little more settled, and see some more improvement in scoring 5-on-5, things will start to come around. That will be a tall order this weekend, as MU is likely to be the most talented team -- top to bottom -- we'll see for sure all year. I know the boys are chomping at the bit to show the college hockey world they deserve to be considered among the elite. No one is satisfied with what they've displayed so far and a good showing this weekend would do a lot to show the world just that. Tall order, but I believe they'll at least split.

IrishHockeyFan
12-03-2009, 08:24 AM
With the little bit of consternation that has surfaced as the team has struggled somewhat this year, I remind myself once again that as a hockey program, Notre Dame has traveled a great distance in a very short amount of time.

Was it really just 5 years ago we were witnesses to the worst season in college hockey anyone could have possibly imagined? I find it interesting to relive this thread (http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?t=49633&page=6&highlight=Notre+Dame) and note the number of people wondering if the hiring of Jeff Jackson was likely to bring any positive results. Most of the negativity came from people who no longer post (or at least not under their "original" handles), but a fair bit of it came from people who make it a habit to post articulate and intelligent thoughts. Some even felt the hiring marked a turning point in the balance of power in the CCHA and predicted Jackson's arrival at Notre Dame signaled an era of top-4 finishes. A number of times I believe I invited the naysayers to return in 2 or 3 years and feel free to tell some of us "I told you so!" Wonder what they think now?

No matter what happens this year, I believe everything is still moving in the proper direction. If the struggles continue, I believe at the end of the year we will be able to chalk it up to the simple notion that you cannot succeed at the absolute highest levels (national title game appearances, conference championships, 30 win seasons) every single year. Sometimes injuries derail you. Sometimes chemistry derails you. Sometimes plain old dumb luck knocks you right off the tracks. But just remember this: For the first 35 years of this program, the team rarely even left the station.

Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.
12-03-2009, 11:00 AM
You put that quite nicely, IHF. I like that my expectations are high. I like being able to complain about tying BG because 5 years ago, we would have been dancing a jig after that game. Prior to Coach Jackson's arrival, my measuring stick for a successful season was John Schmidt's senior year when the team finished 2 games above .500. No matter what your expectations are, they'll likely be met, so why not start high up in the atmosphere?

I have that mustard seed right here.

Craig P.
12-03-2009, 11:42 AM
Was it really just 5 years ago we were witnesses to the worst season in college hockey anyone could have possibly imagined? I find it interesting to relive this thread (http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?t=49633&page=6&highlight=Notre+Dame) and note the number of people wondering if the hiring of Jeff Jackson was likely to bring any positive results. Most of the negativity came from people who no longer post (or at least not under their "original" handles), but a fair bit of it came from people who make it a habit to post articulate and intelligent thoughts.

How's this for prescient? "...his LSSU teams were hell to play against and caused more heartbreaking losses for UM in the early 1990's than any other program by far."

IrishHockeyFan
12-03-2009, 04:51 PM
How's this for prescient? "...his LSSU teams were hell to play against and caused more heartbreaking losses for UM in the early 1990's than any other program by far."

Your prescience or that of another poster? Either way, so true and so foretelling. I can think of 3 particularly heartbreaking losses for UM at the hands of the Notre Dame era Jeff Jackson :)