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MAHOCKEY FAN
03-24-2019, 03:01 PM
absolutely....but this tournament is always packed with coaches. It is supposed to be the best teams from around the country. (not that i agree when the #19 team (Buffalo) gets in over three other teams-can you tell i think their is some BS going on? :))Not all of the teams travel to NAHA or Stoneycreek or Wizards Christmas tournament. This occurs after the college season is done so generally well attended.

Blackhawk66
03-24-2019, 07:25 PM
I LOL'd because someone said to stop commenting on a forum. Isn't that what forums are? A place to make comments?
Anyway... you made my point in your reply... they play under a different name to be eligible for nationals. It's a way to work around the system to assemble a multi-district all star team. Any other program in NY couldn't do that because there would be too many out of district players on the team. But because a "building" was put up on a high school campus, they call themselves a boarding school which allows them to pull players from all over. Why isn't a program like NAHA eligible for nationals? (this is not a rhetorical question... I really don't know if they're ineligible or if its their choice not to participate) I know another boarding school out east wanted to do what SSM does and make themselves both a prep team and a U19 T1 national bound team and USA Hockey wouldn't allow it. They would have had to make the request in writing and then there was a 2 year wait period. ?! I guess I don't understand how this program you call a boarding school can just pop up and make an all star team?. btw, none of this directly affects me or my kid. I just think something is wrong with the system. I feel bad for the long established NY programs who suffer because of this.
and I had Lucky Charms for breakfast... not Cheerios :)

The rule states a team have the"greatest percentage" NYS Guide/rule book Section 7 B . You totally don't know what your talking about. The Colonials get all their players from Lawrenceville Prep they have girls from four different states. Mid Fairfield, St Louis, Junior Eagles and Wizards all have out state players. The rule I stated applies to all programs so the Bison's, Regals, Jr Islanders all can have players from out state. NAHA choses not to participate in the National Tournament and supports their JWHL. I can guarantee this the program doesn't care what you call them. So if the Bisons decided they wanted to take 15 players from different states that would be fine as long as the greatest percentage is from NY.

The real problem here which you don't address is that the player pools in states other than Minn. Mass. and CT are not large enough to support a true tier 1 team. This give programs like Selects, Gentry, SSM, Culver Academy and Gilmour academy a market to attract players in search of a hockey experience that will put their daughter/son on a team that has like players on it. This will change when the player pools improve increases and travel programs will be a good option.

Blackhawk66
03-24-2019, 09:23 PM
The rule states a team have the"greatest percentage" NYS Guide/rule book Section 7 B . You totally don't know what your talking about. The Colonials get all their players from Lawrenceville Prep they have girls from four different states. Mid Fairfield, St Louis, Junior Eagles and Wizards all have out state players. The rule I stated applies to all programs so the Bison's, Regals, Jr Islanders all can have players from out state. NAHA choses not to participate in the National Tournament and supports their JWHL. I can guarantee this the program doesn't care what you call them. So if the Bisons decided they wanted to take 15 players from different states that would be fine as long as the greatest percentage is from NY.

The real problem here which you don't address is that the player pools in states other than Minn. Mass. and CT are not large enough to support a true tier 1 team. This give programs like Selects, Gentry, SSM, Culver Academy and Gilmour academy a market to attract players in search of a hockey experience that will put their daughter/son on a team that has like players on it. This will change when the player pools improve increases and travel programs will be a good option.

Sorry typo the rule states greatest percentage of the team must be from new york state

Russell Jaslow
03-24-2019, 09:33 PM
Sorry typo the rule states greatest percentage of the team must be from new york state

Only five players are from NYS. I guess thatís new math...

BackyardIce
03-25-2019, 04:50 AM
Only five players are from NYS. I guess thatís new math...

The school is considered the girls residence since they board there (per USA Hockey).

Blackhawk66
03-25-2019, 06:34 AM
[QUOTE=Russell Jaslow;6785800]Only five players are from NYS. I guess thatís new math...[/QUOTE

Letí me show you the way if 5 players are from NYS and every other player is from a different state thatí would mean the NY has the greatest percentatage of players . If you donít like change the rule.

Hockey01
03-25-2019, 06:51 AM
The school is considered the girls residence since they board there (per USA Hockey).

So plopping a building on a high school campus and calling it a dorm, makes those students NY residents. Good workaround to make sure the rule is followed.

And how can 15 players from different states still have a greater percentage of NYers on it when the roster max is 20? the only way that can happen is if they are boarding students.

joecct
03-25-2019, 08:02 AM
So plopping a building on a high school campus and calling it a dorm, makes those students NY residents. Good workaround to make sure the rule is followed.

And how can 15 players from different states still have a greater percentage of NYers on it when the roster max is 20? the only way that can happen is if they are boarding students.

For example
5 NYS
4 CA
1 ONT
1 NJ
2 CT
1 VT
2 OH
3 PA
1 CT

5 NYS is more than any other state, therefore the "greatest percentage" is from NY.

BackyardIce
03-25-2019, 08:13 AM
Funny how you like to stick with the false narrative of them plopping a building on the school campus. The 3rd floor of the school which housed the priests / nuns several years ago was renovated and now houses students. Those students are primarily the girls that play hockey, but there are other International students that live in those dorms. So it is not limited to hockey. Just so happens that the majority of the other students are "day" students. Functions exactly as other Prep schools.

BackyardIce
03-25-2019, 08:16 AM
All girls that reside at a school are considered residents of the school (and that State) by USA Hockey guidelines. Import rules (max 2 International) still apply. If they do not have US Citizenship they are considered an Import.

westcoast
03-25-2019, 08:22 AM
I happen to know that NAHA is blocked by the Vermont Affiliates mid 1990's residency policy....regardless of what USA hockey's guidelines say each affiliate is allowed to make their own rules...

Russell Jaslow
03-25-2019, 08:47 AM
Only five players are from NYS. I guess that’s new math...

Let’ me show you the way if 5 players are from NYS and every other player is from a different state that’ would mean the NY has the greatest percentatage of players . If you don’t like change the rule.

Good heavens. You must be a lawyer. That's the most twisted *ss logic possible. :eek:

You can cut it anyway you want, it is NOT a NYS team. No way. No how. No BS.

Hockey01
03-25-2019, 09:15 AM
Funny how you like to stick with the false narrative of them plopping a building on the school campus. The 3rd floor of the school which housed the priests / nuns several years ago was renovated and now houses students. Those students are primarily the girls that play hockey, but there are other International students that live in those dorms. So it is not limited to hockey. Just so happens that the majority of the other students are "day" students. Functions exactly as other Prep schools.

Phew thank you for clarifying that. Sorry... they converted some existing space on a high school campus, called it a dorm so the girls would be considered NY state residents, and then registered with the Rochester youth hockey Org to make themselves be eligible for the national tournament. Face it, a loop hole was found to make this an all star team. And calling it a "prep" school is just downright humorous. Its a hockey academy that latched on to a high school. Maybe take a tour of a legitimate established prep/boarding school and there is no comparison. If it functions as a prep school, then they should have registered the team as a prep school and been made to wait the 3 year waiting period before they were eligible for the national tournament.

MAHOCKEY FAN
03-25-2019, 12:30 PM
i believe MA Hockey caps it at 3 (or 4) girls from out of state up through u14, and then opens it up after that for u16,and 19. I have heard complaints against Selects and SSM (since they are successful ) for years. Not sure how teams that play together all year, fit in the same category with kids that play for high (prep) school and don't get to spend the year together. It has been debated for years.

to the people that think Nationals is just for bragging rights....if this is the case, why do these schools insist on going to Nationals? (and fight this argument every year)

Still Eeyore
03-25-2019, 12:37 PM
Man, this thread really makes all of my worldly problems seem petty.

Russell Jaslow
03-25-2019, 12:50 PM
Man, this thread really makes all of my worldly problems seem petty.

The wonderful thing about passionate sports fans... :eek:

Blackhawk66
03-26-2019, 11:29 AM
i believe MA Hockey caps it at 3 (or 4) girls from out of state up through u14, and then opens it up after that for u16,and 19. I have heard complaints against Selects and SSM (since they are successful ) for years. Not sure how teams that play together all year, fit in the same category with kids that play for high (prep) school and don't get to spend the year together. It has been debated for years.

to the people that think Nationals is just for bragging rights....if this is the case, why do these schools insist on going to Nationals? (and fight this argument every year)

I think Nationals is a big attraction to most amateur girl hockey players. I think that is about right on MA out state players but most of the people who are referring to Selects talking about U16 & U19 which probably has more. All or most of the teams at Nationals have out of state players and some have a large portion of the team. The problem is other than MA, CT, MI, & MN most of the other states I might be missing one struggle to put legitimate tier 1 teams together. So what happens is all the players that are good look to find the right experience. As the player pool grows in these other states I believe these programs will not be as impactful or possibly not survive. In NY it is amazing how the rinks control travel teams. I am sure if Buffalo and outer areas put one team together instead of three you would get a good team. I understand and can agree on some level that these girls aren't from the respective state. Counter to that if Selects was not there could any of the teams that would of qualified be competitive? What I mean by competitive can they beat a MA or MI team make the cross over probably not.

Rightnut
03-26-2019, 12:08 PM
I think Nationals is a big attraction to most amateur girl hockey players.

I agree. I don't get the hatred of Nationals. Why wouldn't you have Nationals and crown a champion? That is what you do in sports. It gives players and teams something to shoot for and look forward to other than endless meaningless tournaments. By U16/U19 they have all done a million of the same tournaments. Those don't hold much allure anymore. Is Nationals perfect - definitely not. Is there a USA hockey money grab aspect- definitely. But with all the warts, its the best we have and the girls (and parents) look forward to it for the most part. From what I have seen, the players are proud to have made it and participate. No one has to go if they don't want to.

Sieve1
03-26-2019, 01:50 PM
I think Nationals is a big attraction to most amateur girl hockey players. I think that is about right on MA out state players but most of the people who are referring to Selects talking about U16 & U19 which probably has more. All or most of the teams at Nationals have out of state players and some have a large portion of the team. The problem is other than MA, CT, MI, & MN most of the other states I might be missing one struggle to put legitimate tier 1 teams together. So what happens is all the players that are good look to find the right experience. As the player pool grows in these other states I believe these programs will not be as impactful or possibly not survive. In NY it is amazing how the rinks control travel teams. I am sure if Buffalo and outer areas put one team together instead of three you would get a good team. I understand and can agree on some level that these girls aren't from the respective state. Counter to that if Selects was not there could any of the teams that would of qualified be competitive? What I mean by competitive can they beat a MA or MI team make the cross over probably not.
You could add Chicago Mission to the list of competitive clubs with virtually no out of state players. They beat Selects for u16 national championship last year.

Blackhawk66
03-26-2019, 03:28 PM
You could add Chicago Mission to the list of competitive clubs with virtually no out of state players. They beat Selects for u16 national championship last year.

True they are great program