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davyd83
06-06-2018, 11:37 AM
This would be so easy for the NCAA to remedy. Require that all schedules be 50/50 home/road.

Except that every school in the Big Ten would vote against it. That means it would only need 2 more of the “Power 5” schools to vote against it and it would be rejected. The only way to possibly push it through is for enough schools to reject 2-for-1 or 1-for-0 deals and stick to their guns for equal swaps of games.

JohnsonsJerseys
06-06-2018, 01:10 PM
[Merv] couldn’t really have asked for a better situation to take over, especially compared to Joe.
Merv 1st year expectations = Zero
Joe 1st year expectations = Win another championship

Ryan

Lost_Husky
06-06-2018, 01:16 PM
that is just plain false
Russell left Marc a team that was ready to succeed from day one. Me couldn’t really have asked for a bette situation to take over, especially compared to Joe.

Oh yes, we talk SO much about the great careers of Brett Olsen, David Johnstone, Jordan Baker, and Ryan Furne with Josh Robinson in net. In fairness he did have the Blake and Tanner class coming in. (From what I heard even a trained money could have landed Blake and Tanner at MTU as they had strong ties to MTU.)

Compare that to Chris Conner, Colin Murphy, Brett Engelhardt,... with Cam Ellsworth in net.

Just because most of us don't like Marv, current coach of the skunk bears, doesn't mean we can deny the job he did at Tech.

Joe walked into a much better situation than both. Granted Beef left a hole in net, the on ice leaders left, had several "no touchy no touchy" players, several holes on D, and he had to clean up the recruit list, but that is not that bad. Overall we had a good team and solid recruits and were in a much better position than we had been at in years. Joe and staff did a hell of a job. I give them a lot of credit.

gfmorris
06-07-2018, 12:54 PM
The NCAA has shown no interest in getting involved. The only thing that interests me at this point is that possibility of a WCHA-ECAC-AHC interlock. Shirtless and I have traded emails over getting the WCHA's PWR up across the board, and the funny thing is that you either open it way up and hope for puck luck (as previously noted ... sorry, not going to scroll back to see who, but I'll rep you in a bit!), or decrease/eliminate them. I don't think that's worked well for the WCHA or AHC, which are definitely the two leagues most in need of help. It's an interesting thought experiment to take those two conferences' NC play and replace any NCHC/B17/HEA games with WCHA/AHC games and see what happens. (You could make some estimates using KRACH as a proxy for how those teams would fare.)

GFM

DrunkTrainPolka
06-07-2018, 12:59 PM
The NCAA has shown no interest in getting involved. The only thing that interests me at this point is that possibility of a WCHA-ECAC-AHC interlock. Shirtless and I have traded emails over getting the WCHA's PWR up across the board, and the funny thing is that you either open it way up and hope for puck luck (as previously noted ... sorry, not going to scroll back to see who, but I'll rep you in a bit!), or decrease/eliminate them. I don't think that's worked well for the WCHA or AHC, which are definitely the two leagues most in need of help. It's an interesting thought experiment to take those two conferences' NC play and replace any NCHC/B17/HEA games with WCHA/AHC games and see what happens. (You could make some estimates using KRACH as a proxy for how those teams would fare.)

GFM

based on what i know about the PWR and am learning, there seems to me that you could run some monte carlo type simulations and figure out what the best opportunity is... even if that means within the conference.

while 'a win' really solves the problem, there may be some strategy to be be had via some kind of mathematical model... hmmm... me like!

Shirtless Guy
06-07-2018, 01:13 PM
Oh yes, we talk SO much about the great careers of Brett Olsen, David Johnstone, Jordan Baker, and Ryan Furne with Josh Robinson in net. In fairness he did have the Blake and Tanner class coming in. (From what I heard even a trained money could have landed Blake and Tanner at MTU as they had strong ties to MTU.)

Compare that to Chris Conner, Colin Murphy, Brett Engelhardt,... with Cam Ellsworth in net.

Just because most of us don't like Marv, current coach of the skunk bears, doesn't mean we can deny the job he did at Tech.

Joe walked into a much better situation than both. Granted Beef left a hole in net, the on ice leaders left, had several "no touchy no touchy" players, several holes on D, and he had to clean up the recruit list, but that is not that bad. Overall we had a good team and solid recruits and were in a much better position than we had been at in years. Joe and staff did a hell of a job. I give them a lot of credit.

Its nice to discount recruits, but a trained monkey could have gotten Dwight Helminen to come to MTU and yet Watters failed to do that...so there is still plenty of value in getting commitments from players they were supposed. Regardless of what you think of Russell as a coach, the team he left for Mel was ready to succeed, Mel could not have asked for a better situation to walk into especially considering where the team had been recently. It was a decent roster with 3 great incoming forwards in Johnstone, Kero and Pietila, plus Khaira committed for the following year (by Russell).

gfmorris
06-07-2018, 01:33 PM
based on what i know about the PWR and am learning, there seems to me that you could run some monte carlo type simulations and figure out what the best opportunity is... even if that means within the conference.

while 'a win' really solves the problem, there may be some strategy to be be had via some kind of mathematical model... hmmm... me like!

It's something I might tackle given some time, but time is precious right now.

GFM

giwan
06-07-2018, 02:10 PM
Its nice to discount recruits, but a trained monkey could have gotten Dwight Helminen to come to MTU and yet Watters failed to do that...so there is still plenty of value in getting commitments from players they were supposed. Regardless of what you think of Russell as a coach, the team he left for Mel was ready to succeed, Mel could not have asked for a better situation to walk into especially considering where the team had been recently. It was a decent roster with 3 great incoming forwards in Johnstone, Kero and Pietila, plus Khaira committed for the following year (by Russell).

What happened that all of a sudden Russell had such a good class to hand over to Mel?

JohnsonsJerseys
06-07-2018, 02:40 PM
What happened that all of a sudden Russell had such a good class to hand over to Mel?
I would like to think it was the removal of the 1970s color scheme from the rink.
Russell recruited the talent AND ripped the seats out with his own two hands.
He was a very hands on coach for Tech, and pretty handy with a socket wrench as well.
Ryan

<center><img src="http://www.johnsonsjerseys.net/temp/seats4.jpg"> <img src="http://www.johnsonsjerseys.net/temp/seats0.jpg"></center>

Shirtless Guy
06-07-2018, 02:54 PM
What happened that all of a sudden Russell had such a good class to hand over to Mel?

Russell struggled to recruit depth and develop players. He never really struggled to recruit skilled players.

bigblue_dl
06-07-2018, 03:06 PM
Oh yes, we talk SO much about the great careers of Brett Olsen, David Johnstone, Jordan Baker, and Ryan Furne with Josh Robinson in net. In fairness he did have the Blake and Tanner class coming in. (From what I heard even a trained money could have landed Blake and Tanner at MTU as they had strong ties to MTU.)

Compare that to Chris Conner, Colin Murphy, Brett Engelhardt,... with Cam Ellsworth in net.

Just because most of us don't like Marv, current coach of the skunk bears, doesn't mean we can deny the job he did at Tech.

Joe walked into a much better situation than both. Granted Beef left a hole in net, the on ice leaders left, had several "no touchy no touchy" players, several holes on D, and he had to clean up the recruit list, but that is not that bad. Overall we had a good team and solid recruits and were in a much better position than we had been at in years. Joe and staff did a hell of a job. I give them a lot of credit.

The core of the team that finally broke through, hit #1 in the polls, got to the NCAAs, was absolutely put together by Jamie Russell. Nearly all of the key players were Russell players/recruits. To ignore, or discount that shows how ignorant you are on the subject.

giwan
06-07-2018, 03:31 PM
I would like to think it was the removal of the 1970s color scheme from the rink.
Russell recruited the talent AND ripped the seats out with his own two hands.
He was a very hands on coach for Tech, and pretty handy with a socket wrench as well.
Ryan

Really is a great barn isn't it

Again any updates going on with or around the rink? Besides the football stadium?

giwan
06-07-2018, 03:33 PM
Russell struggled to recruit depth and develop players. He never really struggled to recruit skilled players.

That's what I thought, good to get confirmation. Russell played a much more defensive style.

manurespreader
06-07-2018, 09:19 PM
That's what I thought, good to get confirmation. Russell played a much more defensive style.
At the end, the players didn't like Russell and wouldn't play hard for him. bottom line. Hard to win games that way.

davyd83
06-07-2018, 11:30 PM
At the end, the players didn't like Russell and wouldn't play hard for him. bottom line. Hard to win games that way.

He also had a team with a ton of injuries to some of its best players. It took Mel until his 4th year to have a winning season, about the time the new recruiting budget began to pay dividends. Not many could have won on a consistent basis with what Russell (or Sertich, Watters, Brown, Mancini or Boxer) had to work with.

Lost_Husky
06-08-2018, 08:04 AM
The core of the team that finally broke through, hit #1 in the polls, got to the NCAAs, was absolutely put together by Jamie Russell. Nearly all of the key players were Russell players/recruits. To ignore, or discount that shows how ignorant you are on the subject.

IMO they walked into similar situations. Merv "looks" like he walked into a better situation because #1 players stayed, #2 they improved, #3 they earned their accolades (#1 in the polls, NCAA birth) in the nWCHA. I like the nWCHA, but one has to recognize the nWCHA is a step down in strength of schedule.

Yes Mel was able to produce a 5th place finish in the oWCHA and earned coach of the year. IMO, he had to actually coach to make that happen.

Two perception things, #1 Russel walked into a Tech team that was showing some signs of life, relative. Sertich retired. He wasn't fired or resigned. Tech wasn't in last place in the WCHA. #2 As an external fan who didn't live on message boards, that last year with Russell and the problematic coaching search, felt like the life was sucked out of the program. Again, it is a perception thing.

The point, no matter how good the situation could or could not appear, work has to be done in order to succeed.

eye4talent
06-08-2018, 01:44 PM
He also had a team with a ton of injuries to some of its best players. It took Mel until his 4th year to have a winning season, about the time the new recruiting budget began to pay dividends. Not many could have won on a consistent basis with what Russell (or Sertich, Watters, Brown, Mancini or Boxer) had to work with.

Excuses.

eye4talent
06-08-2018, 01:49 PM
that is just plain false
Russell left Marc a team that was ready to succeed from day one. Me couldn’t really have asked for a bette situation to take over, especially compared to Joe.


I wouldn't call taking over a team who won, 6, 5, and 4 games the 3 seasons prior to his arrival a "better" situation. Tech was arguably the worst program in D1 hockey when Mel took over.

FadeToBlack&Gold
06-09-2018, 12:26 AM
****uggggghhhhh****

Russell had potential, but due to circumstances he flamed out. Can we just agree on that?

Mel had his share of help, but did drag the program out of the cellar and into a level of respectability not seen since MacInnes.

Joe did his best after the chaos of last summer, and the mid-season struggles. I won't say he set a new bar for expectations, but he definitely exceeded them for a first-year coach.

pdt1081
06-11-2018, 09:26 AM
http://www.wcha.com/men/pres1718/201806/jun11flo.php