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realet
03-31-2017, 09:11 PM
The number of Alumni HC this year was 20. The bio for Bill Riga states he was the HC of the Jr Bruins from 1996-2003 in addition to his duties with the EJHL.

20 out of 60 is a third, or 33% - so even if it was 20, it was still more than 20%. As it was, the number was actually 23, or 38.3%, also known as "close to twice (20%) from this past season."

And if even if Riga was a head coach and not an assistant in the EJHL, it was still 15 years ago.

turk181
03-31-2017, 09:15 PM
Spin it all you want. He ain't gonna be in the squat rack next week...which every other kid in college hockey will be. Ralph asked for an update and told him what I saw.I’m not trying to spin anything. The “update” would’ve sufficed at, “he was on crutches” but then you added, "it ain’t great news". All I’m saying is it may have been right on schedule as far as TB, Ottawa, RPI & the Doctors’ are concerned. I agree with you though that his offseason workout schedule isn’t where it would be if not for the surgery.

Wicked Slappaahs
03-31-2017, 09:17 PM
R.I.P. Roland Schmitt.

http://m.timesunion.com/business/article/Roland-Schmitt-leader-at-GE-RPI-dies-at-93-11042582.php

Ralph Baer
03-31-2017, 09:20 PM
I’m not trying to spin anything. The “update” would’ve sufficed at, “he was on crutches” but then you added, "it ain’t great news". All I’m saying is it may have been right on schedule as far as TB, Ottawa, RPI & the Doctors’ are concerned. I agree with you though that his offseason workout schedule isn’t where it would be if not for the surgery.

Optimistically, I expect him to play in the form. However, he will get injured when celebrating our victory in Lake Placid. :D

Wicked Slappaahs
03-31-2017, 09:29 PM
I’m not trying to spin anything. The “update” would’ve sufficed at, “he was on crutches” but then you added, "it ain’t great news". All I’m saying is it may have been right on schedule as far as TB, Ottawa, RPI & the Doctors’ are concerned. I agree with you though that his offseason workout schedule isn’t where it would be if not for the surgery.
As far as fielding a competitive team in the ECAC, it ain't great news. I of course want Mr. Burgess to make a full and complete recovery. The focus of this ongoing conversation is RPI hockey. That is the prism through which my thoughts were derived. Many (most?) us were unaware of a 2nd surgery , which has now been matter-of-factly presented to us as known fact. Of course the truth is there hasn't been a single update on the kid since we learned of the injury.

Ralph Baer
03-31-2017, 09:40 PM
R.I.P. Roland Schmitt.

http://m.timesunion.com/business/article/Roland-Schmitt-leader-at-GE-RPI-dies-at-93-11042582.php

:(

RPI fan 4 life
03-31-2017, 10:00 PM
Spectrum News (formerly TW Cable) just announced that RPI has finished interviewing the 4 finalists for the HC job. It was the same 4 names mentioned previously, so it looks like Barr, Riga, Gosek or Smith will be named the new coach sometime next week. Sorry, no Mark Jooris. :(

Ralph Baer
04-01-2017, 01:38 AM
Today is 1 April 2017 (6 months). There are 183 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 1 October 2017 for the start of next season.

Ralph Baer
04-01-2017, 05:31 AM
Spectrum News (formerly TW Cable) just announced that RPI has finished interviewing the 4 finalists for the HC job. It was the same 4 names mentioned previously, so it looks like Barr, Riga, Gosek or Smith will be named the new coach sometime next week. Sorry, no Mark Jooris. :(

It's good to see that things are progressing. Hopefully we choose wisely and the selection accepts.

FlagDUDE08
04-01-2017, 05:33 AM
I feel for all the RPI alums and fans. Take it from a Michigan Tech alum/fan, until the administration is serious about winning, it will be more of the same. You need wealthy alum to fund it like a D1 program. The MTU alumni stepped up and told the AD to go and get Mel Pearson.

I appreciate the kind words. Unfortunately, as much as we could find wealthy alumni to fund this, a number of them are disappointed with the administration themselves. My biggest worry is that we won't see a noticeable change until SAJ retires, which if she's anything like the spouse of her former employer, will be quite a long time. :eek:

Noresmen
04-01-2017, 07:50 AM
20 out of 60 is a third, or 33% - so even if it was 20, it was still more than 20%. As it was, the number was actually 23, or 38.3%, also known as "close to twice (20%) from this past season."

And if even if Riga was a head coach and not an assistant in the EJHL, it was still 15 years ago.

So alumni coaches are closer to 40% then 20% does it really matter? How many of those Alumni coaches have winning records in their overall careers. Being an Alumni doesn't mean your going to be a good coach. Just like being a good recruiter doesn't mean you're going to be a good coach. They have 4 candidates with varying backgrounds hopefully the one they choose will lead this program out of the woods. As for Riga and the last time he was a HC, the length of time doesn't matter, the fact that he was a HC at a level higher than youth hockey should matter. As with Gosek as with Smith. They have the knowledge on how to construct a team, assemble practices and run a bench during a game. That's a disadvantage that Barr is at. He doesn't have that experience. It doesn't mean he isn't capable of doing it just means he's learning on the job.

realet
04-01-2017, 08:15 AM
So alumni coaches are closer to 40% then 20% does it really matter?

Yes. It's a significant margin - and given that the other 60% of coaches come from a pool that includes literally every other school in creation, and you can see that there's a serious preference for alums. And its an understandable preference.


How many of those Alumni coaches have winning records in their overall careers. Being an Alumni doesn't mean your going to be a good coach.

Being an alumnus does not mean you're going to be a good coach, no. But it's certainly a bonus from a number of standpoints, including marketing. You don't think a dispirited fan base would be inspired and turn out to see the favored son return? Especially when he's one of the most sought after coaches in the entire country? Riga or Gosek both have impressive CVs, but they'll never have that kind of instant connection. Is it an intangible? Yes. But you're dismissing it out of hand.

How many have winning records? Well, Jerry York (BC '67) is the all-time winningest coach in college hockey history. Jack Parker (BU '68) is third. Red Berenson (Michigan '62) is fourth. Rick Comley (LSSU '72) is fifth, he started out his D-I career at his alma mater for three years - in fact, taking over just two seasons after he was playing. Len Ceglarski and Jeff Sauer are 9th and 10th all time, both coached at their alma maters. That's 60% of the top 10.

Ted Donato (Harvard '91) is in the Frozen Four with his alma mater this year. Norm Bazin (UML '94) and David Quinn (BU '89) were both one goal away from doing the same with their alma maters - which both have already done in the recent past. Enrico Blasi (Miami '94) and Bob Motzko (SCSU '87) have also taken their schools to the Frozen Four recently. Keith Allain (Yale '80) and Brad Berry (UND '02) have won recent national championships with the same school they played at - as has York. Been a while for Berenson too, but Michigan has an all-time record for consecutive NCAA appearances under his reign.

I can go on.


Just like being a good recruiter doesn't mean you're going to be a good coach. They have 4 candidates with varying backgrounds hopefully the one they choose will lead this program out of the woods. As for Riga and the last time he was a HC, the length of time doesn't matter, the fact that he was a HC at a level higher than youth hockey should matter. As with Gosek as with Smith. They have the knowledge on how to construct a team, assemble practices and run a bench during a game. That's a disadvantage that Barr is at. He doesn't have that experience. It doesn't mean he isn't capable of doing it just means he's learning on the job.

This is really reaching. I'm sorry, but there are a whole host of successful coaches whose first head coaching experience was in Division I.

FlagDUDE08
04-01-2017, 09:02 AM
This is really reaching. I'm sorry, but there are a whole host of successful coaches whose first head coaching experience was in Division I.

I'm fairly certain the associated concern is that the last couple times we brought on an assistant coach, we didn't do so hot. Should this condemn an applicant? Not necessarily, but I can understand why someone wouldn't want to take that chance, lest they be considered "insane".

Noresmen
04-01-2017, 09:28 AM
Yes. It's a significant margin - and given that the other 60% of coaches come from a pool that includes literally every other school in creation, and you can see that there's a serious preference for alums. And its an understandable preference.



Being an alumnus does not mean you're going to be a good coach, no. But it's certainly a bonus from a number of standpoints, including marketing. You don't think a dispirited fan base would be inspired and turn out to see the favored son return? Especially when he's one of the most sought after coaches in the entire country? Riga or Gosek both have impressive CVs, but they'll never have that kind of instant connection. Is it an intangible? Yes. But you're dismissing it out of hand.

How many have winning records? Well, Jerry York (BC '67) is the all-time winningest coach in college hockey history. Jack Parker (BU '68) is third. Red Berenson (Michigan '62) is fourth. Rick Comley (LSSU '72) is fifth, he started out his D-I career at his alma mater for three years - in fact, taking over just two seasons after he was playing. Len Ceglarski and Jeff Sauer are 9th and 10th all time, both coached at their alma maters. That's 60% of the top 10.

Ted Donato (Harvard '91) is in the Frozen Four with his alma mater this year. Norm Bazin (UML '94) and David Quinn (BU '89) were both one goal away from doing the same with their alma maters - which both have already done in the recent past. Enrico Blasi (Miami '94) and Bob Motzko (SCSU '87) have also taken their schools to the Frozen Four recently. Keith Allain (Yale '80) and Brad Berry (UND '02) have won recent national championships with the same school they played at - as has York. Been a while for Berenson too, but Michigan has an all-time record for consecutive NCAA appearances under his reign.

I can go on.



This is really reaching. I'm sorry, but there are a whole host of successful coaches whose first head coaching experience was in Division I.

My point simply was that just because they are an Alumni doesn't mean they have the Holy Grail at their disposal. Yes there have been some fairly successful coaches that have coached at the schools they attended. Jerry York though cut his teeth at Bowling Green and was successful there before he went home. To say that fans will return because its an Alum is a stretch in my opinion. The fan base at RPI is pretty substantial. Even with a very sub par year this years team was 2nd in the ECAC for attendance. What this fan base wants is a winning product.

My concern simply is that this school has had little success with AC becoming HC. Many hot young candidates fail. Just look at Bill Bellichek, hot young prospect failed miserably at his first HC opportunity. If Barr is hired I hope he is a success. I've heard he feels its going to take 3-4 years to turn RPI into a winning program. Do you as a fan want to wait that long? To me that sounds like a guy who is just saying that the players on the current team are worthless and that he can't be successful until he has a full contingent of his own recruits. A team that knocks off Harvard and takes Union to OT a number of times this season doesn't sound like a team that can't change on the fly. Does this team need to improve in certain areas, YES. Much of the improvement though can happen with solid coach IMO. There is a lot of talent on this team.

FlagDUDE08
04-01-2017, 09:45 AM
My point simply was that just because they are an Alumni doesn't mean they have the Holy Grail at their disposal. Yes there have been some fairly successful coaches that have coached at the schools they attended. Jerry York though cut his teeth at Bowling Green and was successful there before he went home. To say that fans will return because its an Alum is a stretch in my opinion. The fan base at RPI is pretty substantial. Even with a very sub par year this years team was 2nd in the ECAC for attendance. What this fan base wants is a winning product.

My concern simply is that this school has had little success with AC becoming HC. Many hot young candidates fail. Just look at Bill Bellichek, hot young prospect failed miserably at his first HC opportunity. If Barr is hired I hope he is a success. I've heard he feels its going to take 3-4 years to turn RPI into a winning program. Do you as a fan want to wait that long? To me that sounds like a guy who is just saying that the players on the current team are worthless and that he can't be successful until he has a full contingent of his own recruits. A team that knocks off Harvard and takes Union to OT a number of times this season doesn't sound like a team that can't change on the fly. Does this team need to improve in certain areas, YES. Much of the improvement though can happen with solid coach IMO. There is a lot of talent on this team.

So you want to go from step A to step C in zero time flat, and if you go through step B, which happens to be in the way, it's a failure? This is how teams end up perpetually in the basement.

realet
04-01-2017, 09:57 AM
I'm fairly certain the associated concern is that the last couple times we brought on an assistant coach, we didn't do so hot. Should this condemn an applicant? Not necessarily, but I can understand why someone wouldn't want to take that chance, lest they be considered "insane".

Right, but it's really unfair to make broad assumptions of anyone like that. Barr or Riga could come in and flop for similar reasons to Appert. Gosek could find that he can't replicate his Oswego success at Division I. Considering how dismissive everyone is of Smith based on his record, there's nothing out there to say that he can't come here, make everything click, and turn RPI into Boston College overnight. You just don't know. All you can do is make educated guesses.

But there's a reason that Barr (and Riga) are hot items based on their records as they exist, even if they lack any significant head coaching experience. I suspect both will be a head coach somewhere soon, and odds are good that one or both will be pretty decent.

If people are looking for a sure thing, athletics is the wrong place to be doing it. Look at UConn last night.


So you want to go from step A to step C in zero time flat, and if you go through step B, which happens to be in the way, it's a failure? This is how teams end up perpetually in the basement.

Agree. Can recall the folks who were angry with Appert in years 2 and 3 and they never really lost their hate for him in the decent years.

Noresmen
04-01-2017, 10:11 AM
Right, but it's really unfair to make broad assumptions of anyone like that. Barr or Riga could come in and flop for similar reasons to Appert. Gosek could find that he can't replicate his Oswego success at Division I. Considering how dismissive everyone is of Smith based on his record, there's nothing out there to say that he can't come here, make everything click, and turn RPI into Boston College overnight. You just don't know. All you can do is make educated guesses.

But there's a reason that Barr (and Riga) are hot items based on their records as they exist, even if they lack any significant head coaching experience. I suspect both will be a head coach somewhere soon, and odds are good that one or both will be pretty decent.



If people are looking for a sure thing, athletics is the wrong place to be doing it. Look at UConn last night.



Agree. Can recall the folks who were angry with Appert in years 2 and 3 and they never really lost their hate for him in the decent years.

I think we are all pretty much on the same page. You want the best coach. I just don't feel that being an Alumni should be an overriding factor. I like Riga because he knows the team and the league the best. 11 years in conference, has coached against this team every year. Knows the current roster of players and what they will need to succeed. It's just an opinion and not one that counts.

giwan
04-01-2017, 10:18 AM
. Barr or Riga could come in and flop for similar reasons to Appert. . All you can do is make educated guesses.
rience. I suspect both will be a head coach somewhere soon, and odds are good that one or both will be pretty decent.

Agree. Can recall the folks who were angry with Appert in years 2 and 3 and they never really lost their hate for him in the decent years.

So in your estimation why did Appert fail?

And if there is bad luck with hiring the HOT AC, why is that?

It often is a crap shoot but seems some schools are better at it than others or willing to wait it out while the HC cuts his teeth, ie Harvard

realet
04-01-2017, 11:06 AM
I think we are all pretty much on the same page. You want the best coach. I just don't feel that being an Alumni should be an overriding factor. I like Riga because he knows the team and the league the best. 11 years in conference, has coached against this team every year. Knows the current roster of players and what they will need to succeed. It's just an opinion and not one that counts.

Being an alumnus is not an overriding factor. It is a contributing factor.

And I'm not sure how someone who coached somewhere else necessarily knows the team best. Whoever takes the team over will know it better than anyone else by the first game of the season.


So in your estimation why did Appert fail?

And if there is bad luck with hiring the HOT AC, why is that?

It often is a crap shoot but seems some schools are better at it than others or willing to wait it out while the HC cuts his teeth, ie Harvard

Ultimately, Appert's tactical prowess may not be where it needed to be overall.

Not sure where the "bad luck" part comes from. Luck is where preparation meets opportunity, like Seneca said.

Bradz
04-01-2017, 11:58 AM
So in your estimation why did Appert fail?

And if there is bad luck with hiring the HOT AC, why is that?

It often is a crap shoot but seems some schools are better at it than others or willing to wait it out while the HC cuts his teeth, ie Harvard

A lot of emphasis on the HC, and not much on the ACs both of whom were from the same BCHL organization which has always struggled. The question always is will the new HC be able to bring in the right ACs who can identify, evaluate, and most of all recruit?