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Chuck Murray
12-18-2016, 11:24 PM
My apologies to the other posters ... I'm sure this is like nails on the chalkboard to some of you, but it's gotta be done.

Dan - rather than e-mail me privately to vent (and not waste everyone's time here), you've decided to grandstand about your massive hockey IQ, and to call me out on my alleged lack thereof. And ironically, you claim there is an "ego" issue in play, and it's mine (wow, good one). Funny, I've been involved in many debates over the years on here, and most (if not all) folks who've engaged in those discussions are OK if we end up disagreeing. In your most recent posts, though, you are throwing around some strong and judgmental conclusions. I didn't necessarily want to go here, but I've gotta respond ...


Saviano played with Collins, Aikins, Callendar, Micflickier, Martz, Winnik, Hemingway (X2), Yandle, Mounsey, Ayers, Gare, Abbott, Haydar, etc. Poturalski played with Kelleher. Saviano doesn't 'win' anything with the current roster and it doesn't diminish his ability as a player one bit. Poturalski doesn't hold back the teams of the past one iota. Teams win as a group.

Let's see ... Saviano scored the clinching goal late in the '02 HE Finals for UNH's first HE Tourney title, and was the best player on the ice (I was there), then in '03 he scored twice (including the game winner) against Cornell in the FF Semis (I was there), while earning All-Hockey East AND All-NCAA Tourney First Team honors. In '04 he led UNH in scoring, while earning All-Hockey East AND All-American First Team honors, leading a team shorn of many of its previous senior class back to the D-1 tourney. Some players thrive in big games, and Saviano was one of them. You named a lot of his teammates on there, but only Haydar meets/exceeds what Saviano did over their careers.

By comparison, I'd suggest you catch the final sequence of the MBPBEGAM playoffs Game #2 vs. Merrimack last season. You'll probably have to catch it on video. It does not show Kelleher's former linemate in a positive light. I was there.

Don't you think it's just slightly unfair to Saviano to imply Poturalski would have been the same big-game player as Saviano was, if only he'd had a chance to play with the '02 or '03 (or even '04) teams?


You responded to Ref's post with the SOLE intent of taking a shot at Poturalski. Who you have continuously called a quitter ... You think Poturalski owed it to you to perform through injury/constant double teams and most importantly to stay for four seasons. And because he didn't you attack him as a person again and again. Because he didn't possess your prefered style of play, its fair game to question him as a person, right? I find this type of ignorance pathetic.

Players don't owe fans anything (unless they're pros, and I'm paying part of their salary). Likewise, fans don't owe players anything. But sometimes a player might show dedication to his (or her) school/club, fulfill their commitment, and make a difference while they're there. If a player's actions show they meet those criteria, then I'm going to be in that player's corner. You don't have to agree, and maybe that's just me? Maybe others like players because they get to know them or their families personally, and that's great too - for that person. Others might recall a moment of excellence or weirdness, other may embrace stats. As I have said countless times on here and elsewhere ... everyone should be a fan on their own terms. Those are my terms. And frankly, if you don't like it, that's your problem - not mine.


As for your ignorance of UNH hockey and its roster make-up, I just find that amusing. Lazzarro played one year of PG prep hockey at Phillips Exeter. Jamie Regan played/started two seasons of junior hockey and it STILL took a last minute legal issue for Umile to turn over the back-up role to Regan (for HALF a season). Then he rushed a second scholarship goalie into school at the semester break (i.e. ASAP). UNH will recruit another goalie between Robinson and Comesso. But, if I'm wrong Ill certainly apologize if that's what you need. I won't cheat you out of your poster points/grade...

This one is the best. While spouting on here about my alleged "ignorance" of UNH Hockey - and the UNH goaltending situation in particular - in your apparent haste to prove your point, you got the first part right - about Regan sliding from 3rd string to 2nd string goalie when the CDS situation unfolded. Yup. But have you forgotten who was the 2nd stringer most of LAST season, after Clark went down with the injury that led to a medical redshirt? Oh yeah, that Regan kid again - and for more than half of the season that time.

Is that a minor goof? Sure, no big deal. But it's probably best to not make mistakes like that when you're laying it on thick about "ignorance" and "garbage" and your other accusations. It's that whole karma thing.


It wasn't worth responding, because you don't care about facts/analysis/discussion - only spinning whatever reality you wish to see. Again, you never argued once that you didn't think pulling the goalie was the right call for UNH or any other team. You simply spotted an opening to push your desired reality. The first words out of your mouth were blaming it on Patrick Roy, analytics and lazy coaches (never mind the FACT that Roy hates analytics). Not one word escaped your finger tips to actually discuss the situation. I find that line of posting extremely dull.

No, actually I remember this one pretty well. I questioned the herd mentality in situations where in a RS game with a team down by more than two goals, is the pulling the goalie strategy anything more than empty posturing (or something to that effect)? The response (and I'm not sure if it was you or someone else) was that maybe the coach was sending "messages" to his team about believing in them? Then I pointed out that in most of those situations, once an ENG is scored, the coach puts the goalie right back in, and questioned if that doesn't dilute that whole "I believe in you guys" message? I think that's kind of where this all left off. I guess you thought it was dull, and maybe it is? To be clear, in postseason scenarios, you do what you have to do, right to the end, no questions. But in a RS game where your team is already down by 3 or more goals (against Dartmouth, I think they may have been down by 4?), isn't that empty posturing?

The comment about Roy was that he popularized getting goalies out sooner than most, and I attributed it to him - NOT to analytics (that was my first sense, which I quickly backed off from). But I guess if I mentioned it in the same post, you just drew your own conclusions that this was me having just another bash at analytics - which it wasn't. I'll do better next time.


As for your Clark comment - I wont hold my breath for you to (actually) attend a game, let alone arrive for warm-ups. If you actually did, I bet you'd notice I was right on the money with my comment that all you had to do was watch warm-ups to notice how little net Tirone covers and how often he is beat clean, one on one, by even his less skilled teammates (much more than most goalies - but that would require following the entire sport when you can barely keep up with one team). It was part of an extensive argument on his overall game - but as usual you ignored the bulk of my post and focused on the one thing you thought you could use.

Oh, thank God, the gift that keeps giving. Now it all makes sense. It's not just how well the goalies perform in the warm-ups, but also the skill level of the players shooting at them in warm-ups. Thanks for clarifying. And to think, all these years, here I was thinking, hey, that's just guys getting loose, er ... y'know, warming up ... doing things to get ready for the game, stretching, working on a certain skill, working their blocker or glove, getting a feel for the surface, shooters not looking to score but maybe help the goalie work his glove or something else, etc. An eye-opener for sure. Are there analytics for this too? It's amazing the great new things you can pick up on here sometimes.

... I hope you appreciate just how tough it is for me to post stuff like this without the emojis tonight ...


I'm sure I have ruffled feathers here by being critical of players/coaches performance, but unlike yourself, I have never and will never root against any UNH player/alum. Including Tirone, I applaud and respect his playing much better of late (and the work, focus it must have taken) and hope it continues. Would Clark have performed if he was ever given the same leash or proven confidence in his abilities? We'll probably never know...

I do not "root against" UNH players or alums. If having players I like better than others is "hating on" the player(s) I don't rate as highly as you, then we're off to "Snowflake World", where we can't say anything that even slightly offends anyone. Maybe that's your world/frame of reference? If so, more power to you. I'd like to think most D-1 athletes - and especially pros - can handle a little criticism and/or disapproval once in awhile. If they're as sensitive as you seem to make them out - unless that's just you protecting the poor dears - I fear for their long-term success.

I think we're close to agreeing on the Tirone/Clark thing, to be fair. My point is that you earn your own "leash". And if you don't think I want for Clark or Robinson to press Tirone for more PT over the next season-plus, you are just plain wrong.

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Happy Holidays to all. I'll be at ManchVegas for the next one Friday after next.

Dan
12-19-2016, 10:04 AM
Haha, ok whatever you say Chuck. You would recognize grandstanding...

I'll start with this one because it's the "best". Maybe a minor goof, but you should understand there's a huge difference between Regan serving as a back-up because of an injury mid-season to a scholarship goalie and counting on Lazarro for one-two seasons as a planned back up. Do you really not see this? I think you do and It proves my point that all you do is try to argue semantics and BS to validate whatever reality or argument you've already decided upon...

Your axe to grind on Poturalski is pitiful - especially when you try to get into his head and decide he didn't care or work hard for his alma mater and teammates. He was called by his coaches - "one of the best to ever play at UNH". I'm sure that was inspite of his loathsome effort? You responded as I predicted you would and it's just as transparent as ever - just as your cute emojis never hide your condescension towards others. Don't worry, I'm happy to respond to you in the manner you've addressed so many over the years.

As for the ENG - again, you avoid the reality of the situation. Pulling your goalie down two with two minutes to play can be a good message to your team (more importantly - you do what you think gives you the best chance to win. Period.) You imply that the goal is scored immediately - when it's often scored with say 30 seconds left. Now it's three with thirty seconds left. Yes, at some point a game is over - but you took your shot. Players need to know you believe in their shot, took it and most importantly that as a coach if you think you have a shot you leave nothing on the table. Again, you simply made inaccurate and unrealistic points to reach your preconceived conclusion. Which is some Mish-mash about pulling your goalie with a minute left being good and a minute and a half left being pandering? Yes, that's dull.

If you want to rehash the Clark debate - go back and re-read the mountains of words I argued on this forum. If you want to keep harping on one line - that was simply posted to re-affirm data and in-game observation then yeah I question your ability to debate the issue knowledgeably. you can consider this your Christmas gift I suppose.

BTW - I love your take on warm-ups. Tell me, when a goalie works on his blocker/glove are they NOT working on stopping the puck with their blocker/glove? I would think that would be tough with no one shooting to score? Please watch a warm-up one time so you can at least learn it's an extended period of time and they do many drills (i.e. Some to get a goalie feeling the puck and some to shoot to score). It's nuance I know, but maybe we can start there and progress to evaluation...

Many coaches across all sports and levels use warm/ups for overall evaluation (for recruiting in particular) and pre-game evaluation. Maybe youth soccer is different? Are you able to evaluate practice at your level or is it impossible for you since kids are just working on stuff? Y'know, preparing for a game...

When - if ever - you're ready to discuss what actually occurs in situations regarding hockey and UNH, willing to understand and discuss entire arguments and not cherry pick things you find amusing (often hypocritically to your own steadfast beliefs - only wins matter, unless you're trying to win against long odds and then you're just trying to win to look good. Which is lame!) or exercise any objectivity perhaps we can pick these conversations up again. Feel free to shoot me an email - since its so important to you to spare the other posters that you...didn't. Otherwise, just go poke holes in your Poturalski voodoo doll and let the rest of us talk about what's actually occurring, right now...

deltabravo62
12-19-2016, 11:12 AM
Just a quick thought on getting himself open. Many have commented on this with both of TK's line mates. While I initially agreed, after watching him water bug it all over the ice for this entire first half, I now have a different take. Yes it is there job to be open/get open, but he makes it very difficult. TK obviously doesn't have a plan, he is just looking for open ice - a shot on goal or a creative pass. His numbers show that his passing must be pretty good. However his line mates are struggling to stay open when he is literally pin balling all over the ice. Point being, it is hard to position when you are having difficulty figuring your time and space with his speed and agility.
Some will say that they need to get better, but this line has descent numbers nationally and it works out more often than we are giving them credit for. And the Shoot first mentality is working out well for JS.

I definitely agree that at times Kelleher tries to do way too much out there and skate 1 on 4 thinking he can get through there every time. Most often when this is happening he is head down, not looking for his linemates who are generally open (how can you not be with 3-4 guys covering 1). My exact quote a few times this year has been "You're good but you're not THAT good." Poturalski did a lot of the same things last year and when teams figured that out they collapsed on him and his production went down. Either way, the production has been there and Kelleher is doing a good job at distributing the puck for the most part. You look at his point totals and see that very clearly. I'm just also bringing up the point that there are a lot of turnovers from him going into 1 on 3 coverage and trying to get through it instead of putting the puck to space or on the stick of one of the other two forwards in there with him.

HockeyRef
12-19-2016, 11:19 AM
I definitely agree that at times Kelleher tries to do way too much out there and skate 1 on 4 thinking he can get through there every time. Most often when this is happening he is head down, not looking for his linemates who are generally open (how can you not be with 3-4 guys covering 1). My exact quote a few times this year has been "You're good but you're not THAT good." Poturalski did a lot of the same things last year and when teams figured that out they collapsed on him and his production went down. Either way, the production has been there and Kelleher is doing a good job at distributing the puck for the most part. You look at his point totals and see that very clearly. I'm just also bringing up the point that there are a lot of turnovers from him going into 1 on 3 coverage and trying to get through it instead of putting the puck to space or on the stick of one of the other two forwards in there with him.

...and could we agree that there are times that you just want him (TyK) to shoot the darn puck? :D

Snively65
12-20-2016, 01:21 AM
Wow, this thread certainly turned ugly. I will not report any more of my thoughts about any UNH games that I attend, that is for sure. Good bye.

deltabravo62
12-20-2016, 02:13 AM
Wow, this thread certainly turned ugly. I will not report any more of my thoughts about any UNH games that I attend, that is for sure. Good bye.

Hopefully the mud slinging will die back down so we can get back to the decent conversation we were having beforehand...

Chuck Murray
12-20-2016, 10:35 AM
Haha, ok whatever you say Chuck. You would recognize grandstanding...

I'll start with this one because it's the "best". Maybe a minor goof, but you should understand there's a huge difference between Regan serving as a back-up because of an injury mid-season to a scholarship goalie and counting on Lazarro for one-two seasons as a planned back up. Do you really not see this? I think you do and It proves my point that all you do is try to argue semantics and BS to validate whatever reality or argument you've already decided upon...

Your axe to grind on Poturalski is pitiful - especially when you try to get into his head and decide he didn't care or work hard for his alma mater and teammates. He was called by his coaches - "one of the best to ever play at UNH". I'm sure that was inspite of his loathsome effort? You responded as I predicted you would and it's just as transparent as ever - just as your cute emojis never hide your condescension towards others. Don't worry, I'm happy to respond to you in the manner you've addressed so many over the years.

As for the ENG - again, you avoid the reality of the situation. Pulling your goalie down two with two minutes to play can be a good message to your team (more importantly - you do what you think gives you the best chance to win. Period.) You imply that the goal is scored immediately - when it's often scored with say 30 seconds left. Now it's three with thirty seconds left. Yes, at some point a game is over - but you took your shot. Players need to know you believe in their shot, took it and most importantly that as a coach if you think you have a shot you leave nothing on the table. Again, you simply made inaccurate and unrealistic points to reach your preconceived conclusion. Which is some Mish-mash about pulling your goalie with a minute left being good and a minute and a half left being pandering? Yes, that's dull.

If you want to rehash the Clark debate - go back and re-read the mountains of words I argued on this forum. If you want to keep harping on one line - that was simply posted to re-affirm data and in-game observation then yeah I question your ability to debate the issue knowledgeably. you can consider this your Christmas gift I suppose.

BTW - I love your take on warm-ups. Tell me, when a goalie works on his blocker/glove are they NOT working on stopping the puck with their blocker/glove? I would think that would be tough with no one shooting to score? Please watch a warm-up one time so you can at least learn it's an extended period of time and they do many drills (i.e. Some to get a goalie feeling the puck and some to shoot to score). It's nuance I know, but maybe we can start there and progress to evaluation...

Many coaches across all sports and levels use warm/ups for overall evaluation (for recruiting in particular) and pre-game evaluation. Maybe youth soccer is different? Are you able to evaluate practice at your level or is it impossible for you since kids are just working on stuff? Y'know, preparing for a game...

When - if ever - you're ready to discuss what actually occurs in situations regarding hockey and UNH, willing to understand and discuss entire arguments and not cherry pick things you find amusing (often hypocritically to your own steadfast beliefs - only wins matter, unless you're trying to win against long odds and then you're just trying to win to look good. Which is lame!) or exercise any objectivity perhaps we can pick these conversations up again. Feel free to shoot me an email - since its so important to you to spare the other posters that you...didn't. Otherwise, just go poke holes in your Poturalski voodoo doll and let the rest of us talk about what's actually occurring, right now...

Honestly, can't you just put me on your "ignore" list, Dan? Wouldn't that be easier? :confused: If I'm not up to your lofty standards of posting, I can live with that. I'm sure there are others on here who probably dislike my posts as much as you do, or at least disagree with the content. Some have actually provided persuasive arguments and *gasp* changed my mind on things. Two big ones come to mind:

* UNH Football Head Coach Sean McDonnell - after 5 years at the helm, he had compiled a 23-33 record with 4 losing seasons, and with the last 3 seasons being 12-22. Not exactly up to the standards of Coach Bowes, and I was outspoken on here about him failing to measure up. e.cat came to Coach's defense in a very strong and logical way, and explained why/how he saw things turning around quickly. And to his credit, that was before the start of the 13 years of sustained success. A couple of years in, it was obvious the things e.cat had to say were on point, so I switched my opinion (once it was obvious it wasn't just the "Santos bounce"), and I have been on board ever since.

* UNH Hockey Head Coach Dick Umile - up until a couple of years ago, my take on Coach Umile was very sympathetic. Even in the "Open Letter to Coach Umile" before that, I conceded that he had earned his keep, and had earned the right to ride out of town on his terms, but should be open to bringing in younger assistants (this was back during the Lassonde/Borek era, I think?) to improve his recruiting, which was already on the wane. But tapping into some old contacts and resources (and a couple of reliable folks on this board) painted a very unflattering picture of his involvement level with his program. In short, while McDonnell was still busting a gut trying to win championships, that was no longer realistically the case for Umile. So my assessment/opinion on that subject has changed (in the other direction).

* UNH AD Marty "BS35+4" Scarano - this is still a work in progress. There has been a (belated) turn in fortunes with Men's Hoops, and his patience with Football (and especially the crowning success of the new stadium) have been positive check-marks in his favor. But being a Hockey fan first and foremost, the demise of the Hockey programs (especially the flagship Men's program) has been very disappointing, and the lack of action to resolve those issues was concerning. I won't bore everyone to death with a rehash over the McCloskey incident - which I still think was opportunistically overplayed - but Coach Witt seems to finally be making some progress in turning things around. And with the "renegotiation" of Umile's lifetime deal down to 3 years (with the apparent Souza provision), the AD is arguably playing the "long game" but only time will tell if the latter was a masterstroke OR just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. If it fails, though, understand that a decade of UNH Hockey will have effectively been "flushed" - Umile's last 3 years, presumably 5 years on Souza afterwards, and another 2 years for a potential successor (national search, etc. - which could have happened already). It's a huge gamble, and the jury will be out a while longer.

I'll touch briefly on the other issues before folks drop off into comas ...

* Lazzaro - never said he was going to intentionally replace a 2nd scholarship goalie. But as was the case with Regan (and a few others over the years), it happens. I just get the feeling that one of either Clark or Robinson won't be here next season. And we know for sure Tirone won't be here the season after next. So I suspect Lazzaro (frosh) is the long range plan for 3rd goalie, and (like Regan and others before him) may be only an injury/incident away from #2. Obviously, that's a lot of "maybe's" ... and I may be wrong in the end.

* Poturalski - just was never a huge fan to begin with. The less said, the better. You are free to disagree.

* ENG - I've never had an issue with 2 goals down. NEVER. I've been specific in saying 3 or more goals down in the regular season. Recall this discussion was triggered when UNH pulled Tirone down 3 goals with roughly 3 minutes to play at Dartmouth. Message - "I believe in you guys". Dartmouth scores an ENG one (1) minute later, and Tirone goes back in immediately after. Message?? (on further reflection, I agree - dull).

* Warm-ups vs. practice - you seem to think they're one and the same - I don't. My experience is that as much as a coach wants to think good practice habits should continue through warm-ups and into games, that's the ideal - not the norm. Practices (or "training", as in my other ;) sport) are WAY more important than warm-ups. To equate the two is hopeful at best. Practices last a long time, warm-ups are only a few minutes, no? And FWIW - I've actually played the goalie position in both of my sports, so your lecture is amusing. Maybe it's my age nowadays, but in thinking back to my younger days, I honestly never viewed warm-ups as anything significant, other than to just get loose. I wasn't going to accomplish anything in 5 minutes that hadn't been accomplished over several hours in practice earlier in the week. If you're a coach on the recruiting trail, looking for insights and the only access you get to a player is warm-ups and then the game, and you don't get to see someone in extended practice settings (or training camps, offseason tourneys, etc.) hey - you take what you can get, I understand. But the idea that someone is going to try to assess a player and weight their performance in warm-ups ... that's some very thin ice. :eek:

I enjoy your posts, Dan. Not so much when you're attacking me, or belittling my assessments ... but I'm a big boy, and I can handle it. Keep bringing it to the table though, and hope we can continue to debate/argue (or even agree once in awhile) and spur more discussion looking ahead. The next few UNH Hockey seasons will likely provide us all with plenty of fodder for discussion. And we'll need all hands on deck (you too, Snively65). :)

deltabravo62
12-20-2016, 05:42 PM
I guess we just can't leave this alone. Enjoy the rest of the season, I'm not going to participate in this nonsense.

E.J. Smith
12-20-2016, 07:29 PM
I guess we just can't leave this alone. Enjoy the rest of the season, I'm not going to participate in this nonsense.Ridiculous response and post. And I say that as someone who has enjoyed your contributions to this thread.

One, toughen up.
Two, why do people always feel the need to announce they're leaving? Should we take up a collection and get you a card?
Three, how are you participating in what Dan and Chuck have going?
Four, you must have a brutal time at parties. Do you make everyone in the room talk about the same topic, one at a time? Chuck and Dan happen to be having a conversation in the same room that you're in, that doesn't mean you're part of it unless you want to be part of it.

Why can't you post what you want, let those who want to respond to your posts respond, and you in turn choose who you want to respond to? I'm pretty sure most of the people on this thread have the mental capacity to keep track of the various posts and topics being discussed and respond to the ones that interest them. It's not that hard.

Greg Ambrose
12-20-2016, 08:37 PM
Wow, this thread certainly turned ugly. I will not report any more of my thoughts about any UNH games that I attend, that is for sure. Good bye.

I get a kick out of the two guys slinging the mud. One lives in Colorado and, my guess, has not seen the team live this year. The other lives in Newfields but, for whatever reason, opts not to go to the games. The other thing that bemuses me is the tortured debate about where to play guys like Salvaggio, McNicholas and Hill. We are not exactly talking the second coming of Krog, Haydar, and Souza here.

UNH is mediocre at best. They are fortunate to be playing in Hockey East which is having a very down year. The fondest wish for any UNH fan is that the team somehow cobbles together enough wins in the second half to get home ice in the first round of the HE playoffs, which will give them a chance to advance. That's it.

Chuck Murray
12-20-2016, 11:41 PM
I get a kick out of the two guys slinging the mud. One lives in Colorado and, my guess, has not seen the team live this year. The other lives in Newfields but, for whatever reason, opts not to go to the games.

Effingwoods, Greg. Newfields is just SO 2003. Please do keep up. :D

And you don't exactly have to be a super sleuth to figure out "whatever reason" keeps me from (too) many games in the UNH Hockey season. It's something a few folks on here have managed to figure out. I catch enough grief on here sharing as much boring and irrelevant personal information already to veer into anything close to self-promotion, so I'll just have to leave you to your own devices. But let's be general and say 90% of my in season Saturday nights are committed elsewhere, which means Friday nights tend to become "Date Nights" at the WIS Estate - especially when the missus is not a big hockey fan. That puts a huge crimp on attending regularly, like the old days. :( But life is good, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

FWIW there have been many times I've thought it would be easier to re-emerge under a semi-clever cover ID. But (perhaps like you?) it's always just felt right to be myself (warts and all), and be 100% accountable for what I post on here. I fully understand why others don't. They're the sane ones, to be fair. Responding after midnight doesn't exactly help make my case for sanity, either. G'night all. :)

Greg Ambrose
12-21-2016, 09:54 AM
Effingwoods, Greg. Newfields is just SO 2003. Please do keep up. :D

And you don't exactly have to be a super sleuth to figure out "whatever reason" keeps me from (too) many games in the UNH Hockey season. It's something a few folks on here have managed to figure out. I catch enough grief on here sharing as much boring and irrelevant personal information already to veer into anything close to self-promotion, so I'll just have to leave you to your own devices. But let's be general and say 90% of my in season Saturday nights are committed elsewhere, which means Friday nights tend to become "Date Nights" at the WIS Estate - especially when the missus is not a big hockey fan. That puts a huge crimp on attending regularly, like the old days. :( But life is good, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

FWIW there have been many times I've thought it would be easier to re-emerge under a semi-clever cover ID. But (perhaps like you?) it's always just felt right to be myself (warts and all), and be 100% accountable for what I post on here. I fully understand why others don't. They're the sane ones, to be fair. Responding after midnight doesn't exactly help make my case for sanity, either. G'night all. :)

Two comments. Sorry for placing you in the wrong hamlet. And, not always.

After the Whistle
12-21-2016, 03:35 PM
I get a kick out of the two guys slinging the mud. One lives in Colorado and, my guess, has not seen the team live this year. The other lives in Newfields but, for whatever reason, opts not to go to the games. The other thing that bemuses me is the tortured debate about where to play guys like Salvaggio, McNicholas and Hill. We are not exactly talking the second coming of Krog, Haydar, and Souza here.

UNH is mediocre at best. They are fortunate to be playing in Hockey East which is having a very down year. The fondest wish for any UNH fan is that the team somehow cobbles together enough wins in the second half to get home ice in the first round of the HE playoffs, which will give them a chance to advance. That's it.

Wow Greg, this appears to be a little strong. I have always read your posts with a feeling that
I needed to pay attention and that perhaps I was learning some unique pieces of UNH hockey history. I guess I saw you as the team historian. But..."The other thing that bemuses me is the tortured debate about where to play guys like Salvaggio, McNicholas and Hill. We are not exactly talking the second coming of Krog, Haydar, and Souza here." Would you have us continue to rehash the old days and not talk about the only thing that we feel we know and have at least an opinion on - this years team. I saw all of those guys too, and yes they were fun and truly great hockey players in their time. But they ain't coming back, so we talk about Salvaggio, McNickolas and Hill.
Why would you belittle folks for doing that?

scoreboard
12-21-2016, 05:07 PM
Ridiculous response and post. And I say that as someone who has enjoyed your contributions to this thread.

One, toughen up.
Two, why do people always feel the need to announce they're leaving? Should we take up a collection and get you a card?
Three, how are you participating in what Dan and Chuck have going?
Four, you must have a brutal time at parties. Do you make everyone in the room talk about the same topic, one at a time? Chuck and Dan happen to be having a conversation in the same room that you're in, that doesn't mean you're part of it unless you want to be part of it.

Why can't you post what you want, let those who want to respond to your posts respond, and you in turn choose who you want to respond to? I'm pretty sure most of the people on this thread have the mental capacity to keep track of the various posts and topics being discussed and respond to the ones that interest them. It's not that hard.

I agree with you 100%. This is a message board. Let people banter back and forth. I find the differing opinions interesting. I personally blame this infighting on Umile. Our team has faltered and now Cats fans are turning on each other. Remember the good old days when the fights were with BC, BU and Maine fans? Now the BC and BU fans won't waste their breath on us and the Maine fans can't pose an argument. To think of it, we can't even win a fight against Bentley fans. :(

Greg Ambrose
12-21-2016, 07:18 PM
Wow Greg, this appears to be a little strong. I have always read your posts with a feeling that
I needed to pay attention and that perhaps I was learning some unique pieces of UNH hockey history. I guess I saw you as the team historian. But..."The other thing that bemuses me is the tortured debate about where to play guys like Salvaggio, McNicholas and Hill. We are not exactly talking the second coming of Krog, Haydar, and Souza here." Would you have us continue to rehash the old days and not talk about the only thing that we feel we know and have at least an opinion on - this years team. I saw all of those guys too, and yes they were fun and truly great hockey players in their time. But they ain't coming back, so we talk about Salvaggio, McNickolas and Hill.
Why would you belittle folks for doing that?

"Belittle" is too much of a perjorative and, if my comments came across that way, I apologize. But the fact is that this team is not very good. Losses to Bentley, ASU, CC, Dartmouth, etc. prove that. They are fortunate to have played the bottom feeders in a very weak Hockey East up to now. Wins against a terrible Maine team and UMass, which got swept at home by ASU, do not give me any indication of strength when it comes to UNH. Perhaps they will improve in the second half. Let's hope so. But to think that rearranging the proverbial deck chairs on the titanic is going to somehow vault them into contention is like chasing fool's gold.

And, btw, having been around as long as I have, I think I have some cred when it comes to talking about what you need in order to win. I've seen winning hockey on Whittemore Center ice. In fact, I saw it in spades until a few years ago. Not now though.

Greg Ambrose
12-21-2016, 07:27 PM
I agree with you 100%. This is a message board. Let people banter back and forth. I find the differing opinions interesting. I personally blame this infighting on Umile. Our team has faltered and now Cats fans are turning on each other. Remember the good old days when the fights were with BC, BU and Maine fans? Now the BC and BU fans won't waste their breath on us and the Maine fans can't pose an argument. To think of it, we can't even win a fight against Bentley fans. :(

You blame the spat between Chuck and Dan on Umile? Really? You need to get a grip. You should have been here back in the old days, circa 1999 to 2003 say. What you are reading now is nothing. Anybody remember the debate after Michael Ayers played the game up in Maine after he had his hand sliced? There were posters who felt Umile should be brought up on charges of player endangerment. This forum is tame in comparison.

scoreboard
12-21-2016, 07:46 PM
You blame the spat between Chuck and Dan on Umile? Really? You need to get a grip. You should have been here back in the old days, circa 1999 to 2003 say. What you are reading now is nothing. Anybody remember the debate after Michael Ayers played the game up in Maine after he had his hand sliced? There were posters who felt Umile should be brought up on charges of player endangerment. This forum is tame in comparison.

For your information I have been a UNH fan for a very long time. You also need to get a grip and realize my post was lighthearted. You need to hang up your skates....

scoreboard
12-21-2016, 08:08 PM
And, btw, having been around as long as I have, I think I have some cred when it comes to talking about what you need in order to win.

A quote from Greg Ambose (AKA Bill Clinton) Early November 2016

Chuck Murray
12-21-2016, 09:12 PM
Ooohh boy, it looks like the contentiousness is getting contagious ...


You blame the spat between Chuck and Dan on Umile? Really? You need to get a grip. You should have been here back in the old days, circa 1999 to 2003 say. What you are reading now is nothing. Anybody remember the debate after Michael Ayers played the game up in Maine after he had his hand sliced? There were posters who felt Umile should be brought up on charges of player endangerment. This forum is tame in comparison.

So true. Those were the "Wild West" days of USCHO. Pre-social media, when message boards were still close to cutting edge. This is all tame by comparison. For the sake of the others, I'll say this ... when things get heated on here, imagine like it's a hockey fight when two posters throw down and go at each other. Eventually we "punch" ourselves out, there are rarely "third men in", no one really "wins", and (at least in my experience?) 95% of the time it's water over the dam, and we return to the usual back-and-forth. I won't speak for Dan, but he's been around here a long time by his own admission, and I'm sure he's seen this happen dozens of times. We'll live.

To paraphrase EJ ... folks, if you're not directly involved, chill. No one is going to drag you into it unwillingly.

As far as the Umile connection from scoreboard, I'm thinking that was kinda in jest, but he does have a point. There is a lot of frustration with the State of UNH Hockey nowadays, and *maybe* this is one of the ways that manifests itself? There is also probably a generation gap of sorts at play here, as many of us long-timers tend to see the present situation through the lens of the high times in the late '90's and early '00's (or the height of the Holt era) ... while newer and/or younger fans don't have that distraction, and want to discuss the present situation without the old-timers (including me) telling them how crappy or mediocre things are nowadays at UNH. I get it.

But, what do both generations of fans have in common? Yup, Coach Umile ... whose continued presence as head coach ties the present situation to the past glories/semi-glories, and if nothing else invites most of these uncomfortable comparisons. Fair or not, this will be continuing until the day he finally steps aside, circa March 2018. It is what it is.


A quote from Bill Clinton. Early November 2016

Well played, sir. :) :)

After the Whistle
12-21-2016, 09:26 PM
"Belittle" is too much of a perjorative and, if my comments came across that way, I apologize. But the fact is that this team is not very good. Losses to Bentley, ASU, CC, Dartmouth, etc. prove that. They are fortunate to have played the bottom feeders in a very weak Hockey East up to now. Wins against a terrible Maine team and UMass, which got swept at home by ASU, do not give me any indication of strength when it comes to UNH. Perhaps they will improve in the second half. Let's hope so. But to think that rearranging the proverbial deck chairs on the titanic is going to somehow vault them into contention is like chasing fool's gold.

And, btw, having been around as long as I have, I think I have some cred when it comes to talking about what you need in order to win. I've seen winning hockey on Whittemore Center ice. In fact, I saw it in spades until a few years ago. Not now though.

As did I. Perhaps all of them with 4-5 exceptions. 90% of the away games too. I have some cred also. One difference is that I continue to attend. Just because i don't have 1000 posts doesn't mean I am ignorant. Did you make the welcome home after the overtime loss to Maine. It was at 12 midnight that Sunday when they returned to Durham. I respect your history and know you are a fan, but I will continue to attend and hope. And this is the only team I can speculate at the present time.