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UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
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Live Free or Die!!
Miami University '03
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
Focusing on last night's game and reading threads of other teams that lost last night, one must remember that both teams come to play. CT has 7 drafted players including their goalie. UNH has 2 drafted players, neither dressed. It was not a compelling game to watch until the end when we increased our sense of urgency and CT was on their heels. I am still not a fan of having an empty net with only one defender on the ice, certainly not for 1:30 when you are applying even strength pressure.
Reasonable hope for a home series next weekend remains. If not, maybe we play NU at historic Matthews. Could be worse.I will not be out cheered in my own building.
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
Dan, I appreciate your response, and TBF I think we're circling around the same issues with slightly different takes. I'll highlight a few areas where we disagree, and also point out where we're pretty much in agreement ...
Originally posted by Dan View PostChuck - you are welcome to your definition of a cupcake, but you are the only one who views a cupcake as any poor team. A cupcake is an expected easy win. UConn was that expected win, they are no longer. Especially for UNH. In addition to winning three straight against UNH, they took 7 of 16 points against the top four in HE this year. UNH took two.
But let's take the example of last night's game, using your definition ... if an opponent with one win in their last 11 games can't be viewed as an expected win for a team playing its last RS home game on Senior Night, then your analysis of what constitutes a "cupcake" is pretty limited. Now, let's say UNH somehow manages to turn the tables on UConn tonight at their place. Does that suddenly mean UNH is no longer a "cupcake" because they'd finish in front of UConn in the league (and with a better overall record)? I doubt it. So again, please ... all I'm asking here is, let's keep UConn's *progress* in perspective. More on that shortly ...
Originally posted by Dan View PostThis is UConns third season in HE and a win gets them home ice tomorrow, more than likely. They are still growing out of their AHA roots. Their last year in the AHA the Wildcats were an NCAA tourney team. The gap is closed and not entirely because UNH has slipped. People who view them as a team trending up are not wrong because they haven't immediately reached the top-four of HE.
Originally posted by Dan View PostIf Thompson and Letunov leave - they won't be taking a huge leap next year either. But their defense and goaltending is legit and their future recruiting classes are much deeper than UNHs.
Defensively they've allowed 2.8 GPG to UNHs 3.5 (which trumps however many shots they gave up tonight). Their NHL prospect of a goalie is a freshman and they return their entire D Corp next year - 4 underclassmen along with a deep group of incoming blue liners. They will get better offensively because their best recruiter is their HC and he has a proven track record landing forwards. Which HE did with Thompson, Letunov and Nass. If all three return next year, their one line will be pretty dangerous.
The argument has been made here already that Souza was most responsible for landing their top kids and it's been proven false through simple research. When faced with the actual evidence there is no argument that UConns best recruiter was on UNHs bench tonight. None.
Originally posted by Dan View PostMany said UMass had potential and they did/do. No one thought Mallen would achieve it, nor Cahoon, nor Michelletti. They have, for the first time in their history made a good hire. We'll see if, for the first time in their history, they actually invest in their program, too.
Three years into their HE tenure there is NO doubt that UConns commitment to hockey is far greater than UMass'...
So according to you, who thinks UMass has never thought aggressively about backing their Men's Hockey program until the last year or so, and the arrival of the new AD etc. ... when UMass decides to move on from Mallen, they twiddle their thumbs and settle for stiffs to run the program, right? Well, not quite. That was the offseason where our very own legendary Coach Dick Umile was approached to run the UMass program. And once he got through parlaying things into his "lifetime contract" at UNH, courtesy of AD Judy Ray, UMass scraped the bottom of the barrel with Don "Toot" Cahoon ... oh wait, not the former BU assistant and Princeton HC, where at the latter he remains to this day their best ever head coach, and the first (only?) coach to ever win them anything in the ECAC? Cahoon steps in, and after two seasons of working through the leftovers from the Mallen era, pretty much reverses the program's fortunes (modestly anyway) similarly to what he'd done at Princeton. But the slumbering giant sets back in at the end of his reign, and they remain fast asleep to this day. So with all due respect ... to say Carvel is "their first good hire" is both wrong AND wishful thinking. I mean ... based on exactly what??
Bottom line, it's tough to build something where nothing has really previously existed. A lot of folks backed Coach Mallen at the time, and ditto Coach Cahoon (who managed to get everyone's hopes up for a few years before they backslid). And so far, UConn's current HC isn't doing all that much better than Coach Mallen at a similar juncture in his UMass career. "Real hire" Coach Carvel is also still sitting at the bottom of the league, at last check (but in fairness, he needs more time). And while I don't think Coach Cahoon is going to be making it into the HHOF any time soon, his modest accomplishments with Princeton AND UMass (where he remains historically the best coach ever at both of those programs) deserves a lot more respect than you're giving him.
Originally posted by Dan View PostWhen UNH lost to Bentley, there ceased to be any cupcakes on their schedule. A few pillow fights perhaps, but no cupcakes. The lone reason UNH is not WELL out of the home ice race and behind UConn already is because they caught Northeastern at the right time and without Nolan Stevens. Otherwise they'd be 2-11-2 agains this supposed cupcake-walk of a second half we heard so much about...Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
Montreal Expos Forever ...
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Originally posted by Darius View PostFocusing on last night's game and reading threads of other teams that lost last night, one must remember that both teams come to play. CT has 7 drafted players including their goalie. UNH has 2 drafted players, neither dressed. It was not a compelling game to watch until the end when we increased our sense of urgency and CT was on their heels. I am still not a fan of having an empty net with only one defender on the ice, certainly not for 1:30 when you are applying even strength pressure.
Reasonable hope for a home series next weekend remains. If not, maybe we play NU at historic Matthews. Could be worse.
Appreciate your perspective as always!I'm just here for the hockey...
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
Sweet! Will Chuck and Dan have a good ole fashioned 'pillow fight'? We can call it the "Battle of the Cupcakes" (just a little diversion here folks..) Love it.I'm just here for the hockey...
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
Interesting quotes mixed in with Al Pike's game story last night at the Foster's website:
http://www.seacoastonline.com/sports...ut-on-wildcats
"We work hard but we struggle to score," said UNH coach Dick Umile. "We fell behind but the guys battled. I don't have any answers to be honest with you."
Excellent message from the head coach. "I have no answers". Terrific.
"Tirone was outstanding keeping them in the game," said UConn coach Mike Cavanaugh. "Towards the end we were playing a little bit on our heels and we knew UNH wasn't going to fold."
Luce Canaan channeling Walshy with this nice (backhanded) compliment.
"We've done a good job battling back and keeping ourselves in games," Blackburn said. "Come playoff time that's probably not going to be acceptable."
There's some keen insight. In his defense, you gotta think he's heard this in the locker room at some point.
"It's frustrating, believe me," Umile said. "We'll go down there tomorrow and give it our best and hopefully come back with a W."
Not quite up there with "Win One for the Gipper" ... but good to know Coach has bought into The Quest.Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
Montreal Expos Forever ...
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
Too bad you don't play Maine again, maine is the king of cupcakesI swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.
Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
Chuck -
First, as far as UMass' history of head coaches goes, I remember a lot of excitement around the return of hockey to the flagship university of one of the top talent producing states in the country. I don't remember much at all around Joe Mallen being a great hire. I'm sure many expected he would win, but due to the location of the public university more than any Mallen hype.
Remember, he had one year of HC experience and was something like 4-20 in that year at UMass Boston. After that, he coached at BC while the program consistently declined during his tenure. He was then passed over for the BC job in lieu of the coaching legend that is Steve Cedorchuk. So he was the second assistant at a fading BC school with a disastrous season as a HC on his resume when he left for UMass...
Umile's use of UMass reflects nothing on the schools commitment to hockey. He had NO intention of going there. So, whatever they offered was irrelevant. All that mattered was showing UNH he might leave, so he could maximize their commitment. UMass' other top candidates were Blaise MacDonald and Don Cahoon. The NIAGARA coach turned them down, leaving them with the sub-.500 coach from Princeton.
Cahoon is NOT the winningest coach in Princeton history. Gadowsky, his immediate predecessor won at a higher percentage. Gadowsky also made two NCAA tournaments to Cahoons one, landed an ECAC tournament title (Cahoon never one a thing at Princeton), won a national coach of the year award and finished in the top three twice. Cahoon's ECAC finishes were 9,10,9,7,10,5,7,4,6. GG posted two 20 win season, Cahoon one in three more seasons. Quite frankly all Cahoon did at PU was land Jeff Halpern who carried Cahoon and Princeton on his back to whatever modest success they achieved. He was their third choice and the definition of meh. If UMass had hired its fourth choice at the time (according to USCHO) they'd be competing near the top of HE with Jeff Jackson behind the bench...
Miccheletti was a disaster from the word go and another down the list choice as they failed to impress multiple candidates with their commitment to hockey.
The new AD deserves a ton of credit for landing his first choice - and a guy many thought would never leave his alma mater. Carvel has seven years of NHL experience. Turned around SLU very quickly with elite talent like Beyruther (NH native) and Kyle Hayton. He is a very good hire. SLU will likely reach 20 wins again this season due to his efforts...
As for UMass' commitment to hockey - they still think they are the Camby/Calipari bball power of the 90s and have been pouring money into a football program that will never amount to anything at the FBS level. That has hurt hockey in a big way. If they commit to this coach then this program does have a chance, albeit 20+ years later...Last edited by Dan; 02-25-2017, 12:56 PM.Live Free or Die!!
Miami University '03
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
As for UConn - in just four years Cavanaugh has taken them from Atlantic Hockey also ran to a very tough out in HE. A team that can beat anyone, has landed elite recruits and is already much closer to the top of HE than they are to UMass and ME. UMass was consistently getting clubbed 8-1 by the HE elite at the end of the Mallen era...
UConn as an athletic dept has MUCH more money and has shown a better commitment to many secondary sports (likely more so because they can, than that they care more). UConn is in a much better position today than UMass has ever been in...
If you want to argue that UConn's modest improvement, recruiting success and many optimistic indicators should be taken with a grain of salt until it truly translates, that's fine. But then, you simply cannot write them off with such a sense of assurance either. You do so because you dislike Cavanaugh. Which is fine, but you can't have it both ways.
As for Cavanaugh - all evidence, hear-say, print media and recruit quotes indicates he has been the primary recruiter at UConn. He was an assistant for 21 seasons (18 with York), being titled with lead recruiter responsibilities for most of those seasons while being a part of staffs that have landed an incredible amount of elite talent over those 21 seasons, perhaps more than any other. He lands at UConn and immediately they land Tage Thompson, Gendron and Spencer Nass. Letunov, Huska and Masonious committed after Souza left.
There is zero merit to the idea that Souza's tree non-descript years at Brown and three seasons at UConn - where all evidence points towards most recruiting success tracking back to Cavanaugh in particular and said success has continued after Souza's departure - can yet be compared in the least to Cavanaughs 21 seasons of asst experience and early UConn success...
Souza has been better of late - but approaching two full years at UNH (and 100% in charge) he has landed ONE player with a ceiling that clearly indicates an all-HE type player. Commesso. Wazny and Crookshank have high floors but legitimate questions remain about whether they will reach ceilings of difference making forwards UNH is used too. Even if they do, that's not enough. The surest bets on D are third to second pair guys in Miller/Wyse. I hope Green becomes Agosta. Which means more of the same on defense. The rest of the recruits are question marks. Some with more potential than others...Last edited by Dan; 02-25-2017, 02:05 PM.Live Free or Die!!
Miami University '03
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Originally posted by Dan View PostAs for UConn - in just four years Cavanaugh has taken them from Atlantic Hockey also ran to a very tough out in HE. A team that can beat anyone, has landed elite recruits and is already much closer to the top of HE than they are to UMass and ME. UMass was consistently getting clubbed 8-1 by the HE elite at the end of the Mallen era...
UConn as an athletic dept has MUCH more money and has shown a better commitment to many secondary sports (likely more so because they can, than that they care more). UConn is in a much better position today than UMass has ever been in...
If you want to argue that UConn's modest improvement, recruiting success and many optimistic indicators should be taken with a grain of salt until it truly translates, that's fine. But then, you simply cannot write them off with such a sense of assurance either. You do so because you dislike Cavanaugh. Which is fine, but you can't have it both ways.
As for Cavanaugh - all evidence, hear-say, print media and recruit quotes indicates he has been the primary recruiter at UConn. He was an assistant for 21 seasons (18 with York), being titled with lead recruiter responsibilities for most of those seasons while being a part of staffs that have landed an incredible amount of elite talent over those 21 seasons, perhaps more than any other. He lands at UConn and immediately they land Tage Thompson, Gendron and Spencer Nass. Letunov, Huska and Masonious committed after Souza left.
There is zero merit to the idea that Souza's tree non-descript years at Brown and three seasons at UConn - where all evidence points towards most recruiting success tracking back to Cavanaugh in particular and said success has continued after Souza's departure - can yet be compared in the least to Cavanaughs 21 seasons of asst experience and early UConn success...
Souza has been better of late - but approaching two full years at UNH (and 100% in charge) he has landed ONE player with a ceiling that clearly indicates an all-HE type player. Commesso. Wazny and Crookshank have high floors but legitimate questions remain about whether they will reach ceilings of difference making forwards UNH is used too. The rest of the recruits are question marks. Some with more potential than others...
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Originally posted by herbst20 View PostUNH just landed NTDP Dman Max Gildon.
Was once a Wisconsin Commit
As for your comment chickod - Youre right, personally I was extremely skeptical of the Souza hire. He has swayed me a bit with Commesso, Wazny and Crookshank but with lots of work left to accomplish. I was leaning back to skeptical with the commitment announced earlier today (and Watchers welcome reminder that Souxa only has four years of prior experience! )- but Gildon brings me back to cautiously optimistic long term with Souza having lots of work to do and plenty still to prove before anyone should get too excited about the new era...Last edited by Dan; 02-25-2017, 02:24 PM.Live Free or Die!!
Miami University '03
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
Originally posted by Dan View PostChuck -
First, as far as UMass' history of head coaches goes, I remember a lot of excitement around the return of hockey to the flagship university of one of the top talent producing states in the country. I don't remember much at all around Joe Mallen being a great hire. I'm sure many expected he would win, but due to the location of the public university more than any Mallen hype.
Remember, he had one year of HC experience and was something like 4-20 in that year at UMass Boston. After that, he coached at BC while the program consistently declined during his tenure. He was then passed over for the BC job in lieu of the coaching legend that is Steve Cedorchuk. So he was the second assistant at a fading BC school with a disastrous season as a HC on his resume when he left for UMass...
Originally posted by Dan View PostUmile's use of UMass reflects nothing on the schools commitment to hockey. He had NO intention of going there. So, whatever they offered was irrelevant. All that mattered was showing UNH he might leave, so he could maximize their commitment. UMass' other top candidates were Blaise MacDonald and Don Cahoon. The NIAGARA coach turned them down, leaving them with the sub-.500 coach from Princeton.
Originally posted by Dan View PostCahoon is NOT the winningest coach in Princeton history. Gadowsky, his immediate predecessor won at a higher percentage. Gadowsky also made two NCAA tournaments to Cahoons one, landed an ECAC tournament title (Cahoon never one a thing at Princeton), won a national coach of the year award and finished in the top three twice. Cahoon's ECAC finishes were 9,10,9,7,10,5,7,4,6. GG posted two 20 win season, Cahoon one in three more seasons. Quite frankly all Cahoon did at PU was land Jeff Halpern who carried Cahoon and Princeton on his back to whatever modest success they achieved. He was their third choice and the definition of meh. If UMass had hired its fourth choice at the time (according to USCHO) they'd be competing near the top of HE with Jeff Jackson behind the bench...
BTW - Gadowsky would have been a great choice to follow Coach Umile, given his success to date at Penn State. Five years ago, anyway. Nowadays, why would he even consider leaving Happy Valley PA? Opportunity lost.
Originally posted by Dan View PostMiccheletti was a disaster from the word go and another down the list choice as they failed to impress multiple candidates with their commitment to hockey.
Originally posted by Dan View PostThe new AD deserves a ton of credit for landing his first choice - and a guy many thought would never leave his alma mater. Carvel has seven years of NHL experience. Turned around SLU very quickly with elite talent like Beyruther (NH native) and Kyle Hayton. He is a very good hire. SLU will likely reach 20 wins again this season due to his efforts...
Originally posted by Dan View PostAs for UMass' commitment to hockey - they still think they are the Camby/Calipari bball power of the 90s and have been pouring money into a football program that will never amount to anything at the FBS level. That has hurt hockey in a big way. If they commit to this coach then this program does have a chance, albeit 20+ years later...Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
Montreal Expos Forever ...
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
Originally posted by Dan View PostThis is good. Despite UW dropping him he instantly leaps clearly to the top of the UNH defensive recruit pile. Good for Souza.
As for your comment chickod - Youre right, personally I was extremely skeptical of the Souza. He has swayed me a bit with Commesso, Wazny and Crookshank but with lots of work left to accomplish. I was leaning back to skeptical with the commitment announced earlier today - but Gildon brings me back to him having lots of work to do and plenty still to prove before anyone should get too excited about the new era...
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 Vol II -- We Do Have a Hockey Season Here!?!
Chuck - you are right and I did mean successor when discussing Gadowsky and my mistake may have led some to believe that he set the table for Cahoons tenure. However, when Gadowsky "succeeded" Cahoon he won eight games (I believe) in his first season before building Princeton to its most successful few years. So it doesn't seem that the cupboard was left too full...
I think it is very fair to wonder, if Halpern (one player) never comes to Princeton do they ever finish in the top half of the ECAC standings under Cahoon.
I agree, Gadowsky would have been the perfect replacement for Umile right down to style of play.Last edited by Dan; 02-25-2017, 02:26 PM.Live Free or Die!!
Miami University '03
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