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Chuck Murray
12-14-2016, 12:45 PM
Hey Chuck

Since you won't have to be doing much figuring on "The Quest" over the next couple of weeks, what is your best guess as to which team (basketball or hockey) gets to 10 wins first? Seems like a pretty close call to me, although I think this stretch of the b-ball schedule might be even more saccharine laced than the hockey version.

No worries if you aren't interested in setting that line. I can always call on our more expert friends over at Eagle Action to do it....

I don't think there's any question Hoops gets there first. I mean ... Daniel Webster? Dartmouth?? Wheelock??? :eek:

My wife is a Wheelock (also "Wildcats") grad. And until this morning, I never knew they had a Men's Hoops team.

It's a D-3 school, ferchrissakes, with no on-campus athletic facilities. You have to admire just how deep BS35+4 had to dig to find this uber-cupcake to tack onto the schedule. I guess Rivier College was busy that weekend?

Original school name: Miss Wheelock's Kindergarten Training School (no winkie emoji- that's 100% true)

HockeyRef
12-14-2016, 05:54 PM
WIS Productions brings you the Christmas Break '16 edition of "Umile's Last Stand - The _____ for 600".

"Umile's Last Stand - The Quest for 600"

Coach Umile's current career wins total: 579
Wins Remaining to the next round number: 21
*Games Remaining (Next 2 Seasons - Min.): 55
Win Pct. Required to Hit Target: 38%
WIS Estimated Likelihood of Success: 65% :(
2016/2017 Cupcake Conversion Ratio (CCR): 7/13 (53.8%) :( :( :) :) :( :) :( :( :) :) :) :) :(

* - minimum games remaining assumes 34 regular season games, and at least 2 games in the MBPBEGAM "playoffs"

The cross-state trip to the Upper Valley this past weekend didn't quite work out as we'd hoped, as the "Champions of December" couldn't consolidate an impressive home-and-home sweep over archrivals UMaine with a road win against their former "Riverstone" rivals, hacking up a hairball in dropping a decisive 5-1 result to a very beatable Ivy opponent. If nothing else, it just shows that this UNH team is still a work in progress, and can't be counted on to win the games they should be winning. That this latest loss *might* barely scrape into the top (bottom?) 5 performances so far this up-and-down season (see Bentley, Colorado College, Sacred Heart and ASFU) only reinforces the point. Even Coach Umile admitted in the media this past weekend that additional wins were to have been expected. An 8-7-2 record is nothing to be ashamed of ... but that only tells half the story, and with the cupcake section of the schedule soon to be in the rear view mirror, the "other" half :eek: now looms increasingly large and imminent.

Let's not forget ... this time last season, UNH was hovering around the .500 mark, and seemed to be trending up, with some excitement about Hobey candidates to add to the mix. Then came the break, and things slipped badly upon their return and the arrival of the iron of Hockey East in regular doses, while both Hobey candidates saw their production pretty much cut in half. One of those Hobey candidates remains, and seems determined to write a different ending to this year's story. WIS wants to go on the record with its admiration of this undersized yet determined and highly talented 4 year player, and will predict that not only will he get a Hobey nomination, he'll also get to the Frozen Four as part of the "Hobey Hat Trick" set of finalists. :) Too bad he won't be there with his teammates, though. :(

The Big Picture - WIS experts' projection that Coach Umile's Wildcats would amass at least 10 wins in the opening 18 games of the season is now officially dead, and will not be attained. Two more non-conference meetings after the break against UMaine at Manchester, and then against Brown at Providence, pretty much shape up as "must wins" - especially with Coach Bazin's Riverhawks coming to visit us in between. WIS has looked at the rest of the UNH in-conference schedule, and has set the line at 3.5 additional HE wins, and sets a line of 1.5 wins in the MBPGEGAM "playoffs". Seeing that Coach Umile needs to find a way to the 14-15 win range this season to keep things on track with The Quest ending on a happy note in Winter 2018, you can see how important taking W's out of the final two OOC games becomes. The Dartmouth loss takes a couple of points off the likelihood Coach successfully reaches the next round number.

Prediction:

Friday (Dec. 30th): @ UNH 4 UMaine 4

NEXT (LAST?) CUPCAKE ON THE SHELF: 1/7/17 @ Brown

IS BS35+4 PAYING ATTENTION YET?

Yes and no. With football season over, and his brand-new stadium deemed a smashing success by pretty much everyone (putting aside some of the scoreboard funding related drama), and with the Men's Hoops team in nosebleed territory at 7-3 :eek: our boy has earned the right to rest on his laurels over the holiday season. And no one does laurel-resting better than BS35+4. "Should Men's Hockey have won a few more games? Sure, no doubt ... but, why worry? :confused: Dick has a winning record, and my spies tell me that he hasn't been taking too much heat over at USCHO in recent weeks. Apparently, even the clown who writes about The Quest or whatever seems to think my master plan to get my paisan to the next round number is gonna work more often than not. And Dick's nephew just landed a pair of blue chip recruits!! God, I'm a genius. Hon ... can you get me some more eggnog? (buurrrrpppp) Now ... let's see, how do we get Daniel Webster and Wheelock onto the Men's Hockey schedule next season? Geez, Herrion's cupcakes are even tastier than Umile's ... and Bill isn't even a paisan!"

Anyway ... Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Happy Holidays to all. And "Let's Make UNH Great Again!!!" :)

...I see what you did there ;) That's something even I can get behind!!! :D And echo WIS' thoughts around TyK for Hobey Baker (but you'd expect that)!

Snively65
12-14-2016, 06:54 PM
...I see what you did there ;) That's something even I can get behind!!! :D And echo WIS' thoughts around TyK for Hobey Baker (but you'd expect that)!

Put a real finisher on his line for the New Year, DU!

HockeyRef
12-14-2016, 08:20 PM
Put a real finisher on his line for the New Year, DU!

Hey can't hurt but wouldn't hold yer breath! BTW Pots got one tonight to add to the UNH alum scoring (albeit the AHL)....

Scott
12-14-2016, 08:20 PM
Original school name: Miss Wheelock's Kindergarten Training School (no winkie emoji- that's 100% true)

In the words of the immortal Ross Perot: "Now, that is just sad."

If the Mens B-ball team can't hit triple digits and win by at least 60 over that icing-laden cupcake....:eek: :eek: :eek:;)

NCAA watcher
12-15-2016, 08:02 PM
Totally agree with you on UNH trending the right direction. I think once Souza gets the head job he will be able to give the program a shot in the arm it desperately needs. .... The Commesso commitment was probably the biggest get in the last 3-4 years. He was supposedly a lock at BU and he decided he wanted UNH and you have to give Souza huge amounts of credit on that one. Commesso is the type of commit that will be able to pull in some other high caliber players down the road at that age level. You get one and more will follow...thats usually how it works.

Commesso does have three Liam teammates who are interesting.

Souza's recruits from last year are interesting. MacAdams has been better than advertised, and while not necessarily projecting as a top 6 forward, a good third line kid. Crookshank has returned from his broken collarbone, and has 6 points in 6 games. He could be a very interesting kid next year. Corson Green is actually adjusting to the USHL, of which I was skeptical. The stationary offense is there (think Brian Yandle), and let's see if more comes around. It's early, but Verrier has adjusted to the prep level, and is a key guy at Salisbury, more impactful than I thought. Bahn is at too weak a level to get a good read on, so is still to be determined.

While it is hard to read too much into the first couple of months, we do see that while the upside in his recruiting may not be there (yet), the projects that he has taken have cleared their first initial hurdles.

Lemonade
12-16-2016, 09:22 AM
Commesso does have three Liam teammates who are interesting.

Souza's recruits from last year are interesting. MacAdams has been better than advertised, and while not necessarily projecting as a top 6 forward, a good third line kid. Crookshank has returned from his broken collarbone, and has 6 points in 6 games. He could be a very interesting kid next year. Corson Green is actually adjusting to the USHL, of which I was skeptical. The stationary offense is there (think Brian Yandle), and let's see if more comes around. It's early, but Verrier has adjusted to the prep level, and is a key guy at Salisbury, more impactful than I thought. Bahn is at too weak a level to get a good read on, so is still to be determined.

While it is hard to read too much into the first couple of months, we do see that while the upside in his recruiting may not be there (yet), the projects that he has taken have cleared their first initial hurdles.


Sebs does seem to have a very talented freshman and sophomore class. They are certainly prospects there are worthy of following. Also of note, Commesso has played with Scott Morrow in the spring/summer teams for the Boston Jr Bruins. Morrow is talented defenseman at SSM and his dad Steve Morrow played at UNH. Would love to land Morrow as well.

E.J. Smith
12-16-2016, 03:29 PM
Credit where credit is due, we can still hold off on ordering the 2021 NC banner but the recruiting has stepped up to at least become interesting at this point.

Btw, isn't it time to start a new recruiting thread?

And in the spirit of trivia, is James Richmond the most underrated UNH player of all time?

Chuck Murray
12-16-2016, 08:37 PM
And in the spirit of trivia, is James Richmond the most underrated UNH player of all time?

Good call. I always felt bad for the players like him and Mike Rossetti who were lucky enough to latch onto the last good year or two of the Holt era, but were with the teams later in their careers that went off the competitive cliff in the early years of Hockey East. Pure bad luck, wrong place at the wrong time, etc.

Not to turn this into "This Is Your Life" or anything, but it is the break ... so we got married and moved to this area right at the same time Hockey East was born, and I was SO excited to buy season tickets at "Lively Snively" and regularly partake in all the fun. 10 minute drive to the arena (5 minutes closer than it is even now), new conference, almost all the local teams coming with the new league, playing the interlocking schedule in the early years with the WCHA ... it should have been SO much fun, but it was painful and disappointing, and also pretty shocking to see how far AND how fast they fell. Then the renewed hope (and eventual tragedy) of the short-lived Kullen era ... but then that relatively young guy from Melrose picked up the loose ball (puck?), and for the next decade-plus it was ice cream and balloons. :)

Now it's the old guy from Melrose who is playing out the string. To his credit - I guess - other than last season, the fall from grace has been gradual and almost slow-motion ... like it's gone so slowly, it's been virtually unnoticeable most of the time, there's been no abrupt shock, and no one class can have the brunt of the fall (or more aptly "slide") laid at their doorstep. I've always worried that Umile's career might end on the same down note as Holt's, but Coach U ground out a lot of mediocre .500-ish seasons in recent years (and may be headed there again this season, with some luck), when Coach Holt was riding the express train to the D-1 basement. I guess that counts for something?

But to pick up EJ's topic in the present day ... I suspect one Tyler Kelleher is going to be one of those underappreciated players when those of us who make it to the next era of UNH Hockey glory look back at the end of the Umile era in 10 years or 20 years from now. Here's a guy who on talent alone would be right there with the all-time greats in UNH history ... but unless something remarkable happens, he will never play in a single D-1 postseason game, and his career highlight may end up being the Hockey East Tourney Final he played in at the end of his frosh season. Wrong place, wrong time ... again, pure bad luck for a really good player who deserves better.

Greg Ambrose
12-16-2016, 08:43 PM
Credit where credit is due, we can still hold off on ordering the 2021 NC banner but the recruiting has stepped up to at least become interesting at this point.

Btw, isn't it time to start a new recruiting thread?

And in the spirit of trivia, is James Richmond the most underrated UNH player of all time?

I'll go with Frankie Roy. Or in the modern era, Jacob McFlikier.

HockeyRef
12-16-2016, 09:07 PM
Good call. I always felt bad for the players like him and Mike Rossetti who were lucky enough to latch onto the last good year or two of the Holt era, but were with the teams later in their careers that went off the competitive cliff in the early years of Hockey East. Pure bad luck, wrong place at the wrong time, etc.

Not to turn this into "This Is Your Life" or anything, but it is the break ... so we got married and moved to this area right at the same time Hockey East was born, and I was SO excited to buy season tickets at "Lively Snively" and regularly partake in all the fun. 10 minute drive to the arena (5 minutes closer than it is even now), new conference, almost all the local teams coming with the new league, playing the interlocking schedule in the early years with the WCHA ... it should have been SO much fun, but it was painful and disappointing, and also pretty shocking to see how far AND how fast they fell. Then the renewed hope (and eventual tragedy) of the short-lived Kullen era ... but then that relatively young guy from Melrose picked up the loose ball (puck?), and for the next decade-plus it was ice cream and balloons. :)

Now it's the old guy from Melrose who is playing out the string. To his credit - I guess - other than last season, the fall from grace has been gradual and almost slow-motion ... like it's gone so slowly, it's been virtually unnoticeable most of the time, there's been no abrupt shock, and no one class can have the brunt of the fall (or more aptly "slide") laid at their doorstep. I've always worried that Umile's career might end on the same down note as Holt's, but Coach U ground out a lot of mediocre .500-ish seasons in recent years (and may be headed there again this season, with some luck), when Coach Holt was riding the express train to the D-1 basement. I guess that counts for something?

But to pick up EJ's topic in the present day ... I suspect one Tyler Kelleher is going to be one of those underappreciated players when those of us who make it to the next era of UNH Hockey glory look back at the end of the Umile era in 10 years or 20 years from now. Here's a guy who on talent alone would be right there with the all-time greats in UNH history ... but unless something remarkable happens, he will never play in a single D-1 postseason game, and his career highlight may end up being the Hockey East Tourney Final he played in at the end of his frosh season. Wrong place, wrong time ... again, pure bad luck for a really good player who deserves better.

As for TyK being 'underappreciated' I don't think he will fall into nothingness in the minds of most modern day UNH hockey fans. It IS a crying shame he will not have the chance in his college career to play in a D1 tournament game, but he's far from being the only one of course. You are right...he does deserve better and I am really hoping he picks up a Hobey Finalist nod...it's the least the Hockey Gods can do...That being said, just because he didn't make it to a Regional doesn't make him any less a UNH hockey great, even if I am in the minority in saying so (at least, here on this board as it has been previously discussed).

Snively65
12-16-2016, 10:38 PM
Make TyK's first line great again; move him to left wing and put Grasso on right.

HockeyRef
12-17-2016, 06:41 AM
Make TyK's first line great again; move him to left wing and put Grasso on right.

Maybe they could do this at the Brown game...who's going to center the line, Mc Nick? Salvaggio? Nazarian? (my choice) hmmm I dunno; (and here's a loaded q) don'tcha think the coaches would've done this if they thought it could work? Maybe it's in the works as we speak! I mean both current wings have scored goals as has Grasso...As I recall it has taken a bunch of games to get that top line 'right'; am thinking of the Willows, Downing, Thrush line as well as the Willows, Goumas, Sorkin lines that took awhile to be figured out. Chemistry is important and I do like the chem of that Frosh line, now that I think of it! Jumbling the lines can be beneficial so totally hear what you are saying!

Chuck Murray
12-17-2016, 09:22 AM
Make TyK's first line great again; move him to left wing and put Grasso on right.

IIRC Grasso hasn't exactly been lighting it up recently. I don't think Salvaggio or McNicholas have done anything to deserve getting knocked down (just yet). I mean, we're not talking MacDonald or Smith here. Kelleher hasn't missed a beat so far this season, even after both of his linemates from last season (Correale and what's his name?) moved on. Keeping Salvaggio and McNick together also arguably sets things up to keep them together next season, while plugging in Kelleher's replacement (?!) to slot in with both of them.

Grasso and TyK on the power play is one thing ... two undersized guys together on the same line at full strength, heading into the meat of the HE schedule, I don't think that's in the best interests of the team (although *maybe* it pads Kelleher's stats). Entertaining, yes. Successful winning (or at least competitive) two-way hockey? Unlikely. JMHO.


As for TyK being 'underappreciated' I don't think he will fall into nothingness in the minds of most modern day UNH hockey fans. It IS a crying shame he will not have the chance in his college career to play in a D1 tournament game, but he's far from being the only one of course. You are right...he does deserve better and I am really hoping he picks up a Hobey Finalist nod...it's the least the Hockey Gods can do...That being said, just because he didn't make it to a Regional doesn't make him any less a UNH hockey great, even if I am in the minority in saying so (at least, here on this board as it has been previously discussed).

Nothingness, no. Underappreciated, definitely. I can guarantee you, in 10 or 20 years from now, no one on here is going to be waxing poetic about how wonderful and exciting the final years of the Umile era were. This era will be forgotten as quickly as it takes Souza or his successor to return the 'Cats to where they were during the apex of the Holt and Umile eras. And underappreciated players - like Roy, or Richmond and Rossetti in the final years of the Holt era, or like Micflikier, Goumas and probs Kelleher more recently - are the ones whose best efforts were overlooked because of the excellence that surrounded them, or bypassed by the mediocrity surrounding them. Or just because they were very good players when not as many folks were paying attention.

The true legends of UNH Hockey history were the ones who did great things in big games ... Clark-Hislop-Cox, Ralph Cox, Mark Mowers, Jason Krog, Eric Boguniecki, Darren Haydar and more, they all fit the bill. It's why I always throw out the name of Steve Saviano when these things come up (and maybe Mike Ayers should get more play too, except for a couple of FF games he habitually gets tagged for - one quite unfairly BTW) ... maybe they weren't top tier UNH legends, but they were the guys who stood up when UNH won their only 2 HE Tourney championships. So I'll throw Saviano and Ayers into the "underappreciated" discussion as well.

Chuck Murray
12-17-2016, 09:28 AM
Hey EJ - looks like I've moved the goalposts on your topic. Are we talking about roughly the same thing?

:confused:

And no, I haven't gotten an early start on the eggnog at the WIS Estate, mon ami. :)

HockeyRef
12-17-2016, 09:55 AM
IIRC Grasso hasn't exactly been lighting it up recently. I don't think Salvaggio or McNicholas have done anything to deserve getting knocked down (just yet). I mean, we're not talking MacDonald or Smith here. Kelleher hasn't missed a beat so far this season, even after both of his linemates from last season (Correale and what's his name?) moved on. Keeping Salvaggio and McNick together also arguably sets things up to keep them together next season, while plugging in Kelleher's replacement (?!) to slot in with both of them.

Grasso and TyK on the power play is one thing ... two undersized guys together on the same line at full strength, heading into the meat of the HE schedule, I don't think that's in the best interests of the team (although *maybe* it pads Kelleher's stats). Entertaining, yes. Successful winning (or at least competitive) two-way hockey? Unlikely. JMHO.



Nothingness, no. Underappreciated, definitely. I can guarantee you, in 10 or 20 years from now, no one on here is going to be waxing poetic about how wonderful and exciting the final years of the Umile era were. This era will be forgotten as quickly as it takes Souza or his successor to return the 'Cats to where they were during the apex of the Holt and Umile eras. And underappreciated players - like Roy, or Richmond and Rossetti in the final years of the Holt era, or like Micflikier, Goumas and probs Kelleher more recently - are the ones whose best efforts were overlooked because of the excellence that surrounded them, or bypassed by the mediocrity surrounding them. Or just because they were very good players when not as many folks were paying attention.

The true legends of UNH Hockey history were the ones who did great things in big games ... Clark-Hislop-Cox, Ralph Cox, Mark Mowers, Jason Krog, Eric Boguniecki, Darren Haydar and more, they all fit the bill. It's why I always throw out the name of Steve Saviano when these things come up (and maybe Mike Ayers should get more play too, except for a couple of FF games he habitually gets tagged for - one quite unfairly BTW) ... maybe they weren't top tier UNH legends, but they were the guys who stood up when UNH won their only 2 HE Tourney championships. So I'll throw Saviano and Ayers into the "underappreciated" discussion as well.

Yeah I get what you are saying the big dogs did big things in big games and as for the rest? Not so much given the rest of the story. Right players; wrong team but still deserving even if they don't get to play in the big one!

So in 10 years we will not remember or speak the name Kelleher? Gawd I hope not...Newbie fans like myself will have to keep that flame burning I guess memorable games or not. So if the best thing we can say is "member the time we beat Providence twice in the HE playoffs" is the best we have during his tenure well so be it. Doubt that's going to come up in 10 years but hey it's all we have!!

Still for me I can truly say it's been a pleasure to watch him and have my fingers crossed for a good second half for him (as well as for the team) and a well deserved Hobey nomination.

I guess that's all we really will have unless something miraculous happens as you say! Like you said...it's a crying shame, really. Man I hope I get to experience all that fun of going deep in the post season like so many of you have. Pretty lucky considering the many teams in this board who never have. And yeah it's small consolation given the heartbreaks along the way.

You tube only goes so far...🙄 That is the lot of a fan...and the price one pays (86 years for the Sox anyone?) when you follow a team you just gotta keep coming back!

Guess I have somewhat of a soft spot for these Seniors as they were the first group I've followed for 4 years; already kind of wondering if I will put in the time next season. (Yeah right)🙄

Greg Ambrose
12-17-2016, 10:37 AM
And underappreciated players - like Roy, or Richmond and Rossetti in the final years of the Holt era, or like Micflikier, Goumas and probs Kelleher more recently - are the ones whose best efforts were overlooked because of the excellence that surrounded them, or bypassed by the mediocrity surrounding them. Or just because they were very good players when not as many folks were paying attention.

The true legends of UNH Hockey history were the ones who did great things in big games ... Clark-Hislop-Cox, Ralph Cox, Mark Mowers, Jason Krog, Eric Boguniecki, Darren Haydar and more, they all fit the bill. It's why I always throw out the name of Steve Saviano when these things come up (and maybe Mike Ayers should get more play too, except for a couple of FF games he habitually gets tagged for - one quite unfairly BTW) ... maybe they weren't top tier UNH legends, but they were the guys who stood up when UNH won their only 2 HE Tourney championships. So I'll throw Saviano and Ayers into the "underappreciated" discussion as well.

Chuck, clarification first. Frank Roy, the greatest player ever to come out of Berlin, played for UNH in Charlie Holt's glory days of the late 70's. Despite 174 career points, he never made an All American team, mostly because the teams he played on had the likes of Miller, Cox, Lumley, Gould, Crowder, etc. But he was a big time player, an adept stickhandler and passer, and a tenacious forechecker. He is my definition of un (or under) appreciated. McFlikier is in the same boat in my mind, with 150 career points but somehow overshadowed by the likes of Radja, Fornataro, and Brett Hemingway. And although you are spot on as to how valuable Saviano and Ayers were back then, I'll remind you that both received their dues as first team All Americans and deservedly so. My guess is Kelleher will be an All American this year, unless he drops completely off the table.

Chuck Murray
12-17-2016, 11:32 AM
Chuck, clarification first. Frank Roy, the greatest player ever to come out of Berlin, played for UNH in Charlie Holt's glory days of the late 70's. Despite 174 career points, he never made an All American team, mostly because the teams he played on had the likes of Miller, Cox, Lumley, Gould, Crowder, etc. But he was a big time player, an adept stickhandler and passer, and a tenacious forechecker. He is my definition of un (or under) appreciated. McFlikier is in the same boat in my mind, with 150 career points but somehow overshadowed by the likes of Radja, Fornataro, and Brett Hemingway. And although you are spot on as to how valuable Saviano and Ayers were back then, I'll remind you that both received their dues as first team All Americans and deservedly so. My guess is Kelleher will be an All American this year, unless he drops completely off the table.

Yeah, Roy was someone who fit into the "overlooked because of the excellence that surrounded them" category. Not all that unlike Saviano a generation later. Richmond and Rossetti fell into the "bypassed by the mediocrity surrounding them" category a few years later.

You would know the answer to this one better than most ... but have qualifications for being an "All-American" changed over the years? One needs only to scan the All-American photo gallery at The Whitt to see many more recent AA's than back in the day, and some glaring omissions from the Holt era. On the surface - and not to discredit recent UNH designees - it just seems easier numbers-wise to earn AA status these days. True or false?

deltabravo62
12-17-2016, 11:57 AM
IIRC Grasso hasn't exactly been lighting it up recently. I don't think Salvaggio or McNicholas have done anything to deserve getting knocked down (just yet). I mean, we're not talking MacDonald or Smith here. Kelleher hasn't missed a beat so far this season, even after both of his linemates from last season (Correale and what's his name?) moved on.

Correale and that other guy were actually his linemates for the better part of the last two seasons, I'm happy to see him overcome the problem of having to adjust to two completely new linemates at the same time with the production he has had to this point.

HockeyRef
12-17-2016, 12:09 PM
Correale and that other guy were actually his linemates for the better part of the last two seasons, I'm happy to see him overcome the problem of having to adjust to two completely new linemates at the same time with the production he has had to this point.

Oh to still have that other guy....😳