Hockey East: A New Big 4?

[UML Puck Hawk]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

Here's a thought guys....BC and BU will always have beaucoup bucks, so take them out of the discussion for now, but of PU, NU, UML, and UVM and MC for that matter, who besides UNH is spending money on Football? Therefore they have the $$$ and Admin backing for their hockey to become better.....in a state that funds it's State University 50th, how can UNH provide for both football and hockey programs to be premier?

Merrimack has D2 football for whatever its worth...

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

I do not buy the lack of spending argument. We have the same number of scholarships as the others, and now a Jumbotron. I also do not buy the lack of training rooms and the other hoopla as an excuse. I think that what has changed at UNH has been a huge drop off in coaching and recruiting skills over the past decade.

I'm surprised to see you back after your original post. So, since Coach Umile has been head coach for 25 seasons how much change has gone on with his assistant/associate coaches? I know that constant coaching changes at Wisconsin has been used as one of the reasons the have done so poorly the past few seasons. Has Coach Umile also had a lot of changes the past few seasons?

Sean

[brassbonanza]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

UCONN is knocking at the door with 3 less scholarships, and with a full slate in 2016-2017 they have a good chance to buck the trend.

do you post on the boneyard dot com

[mookie1995]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

A decade is now 20 years?

1993-2004 is now 20 years?

[ticapnews]

1993-2004 is now 20 years?

1988-2007 is.

[jcarter7669]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

The current Big 4 is BC, BU hanging in there but possible on the edge, UML and PC. Here's why, it's not league standings or seasonal records. It's coaching and the program.

BC has York and while they may have a down year that's it. At least until the old man retires.
BU is a big for because of Parker and his success. Quinn isn't doing great but hes kept the program in the top 4 so he gets a reprieve for now but it's on thin ice. I can see BU being relegated to the Mid pack tier with a few lackluster years and recruits start recognizing the medicine woman isn't producing champion ship teams.
UML brought in a new coach and immediately had success that they have sustained. That's not going away. With the elimination of the 20 seniors roster, the program will be more consistent and will always be right there in the top 4 or the cusp of it in a sustained way.
PC is a bit of question mark as they have benefited greatly from a few key players, but they showed this year it wasn't just Gilles or a few others. But the coaching staff again came in new and produced a quality team that they have maintained for several seasons. I think they are a top 4.

After that the question becomes whose going to challenge them? Northeastern? Possibly but they haven't show the same consistent success, even with Roy, Smatz, etc... They've had the recruits and I think they are a mid tier team, but not capable of sustained success.

UNH? Not until they get rid of Umile. The team had it's heyday, breaking the rules moved them to a mid tier team and that lack of success has kept the high end recruits coming in.

Maine? Gendron has show to be only marginally better the Timmay, certainly nothing to bring the program back into year after year after year of success.

UVM? Nope, Sneddon has made the team better, but he has hit a wall. In fact if anything the program is actually sliding backwards.

UConn? As much as I hate to give the fans any fodder, they perhaps have the best shot at becoming a Big 4 team. Good coach, larger school, etc etc. There is a lot of unknown with that program but a lot of potential.

The Big 4 is pretty easy right now, BC, UML, PC, BU...

[Riverhawkfanjv]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

This is unrelated but slightly related I think Hockey East should try and get Quinnipiac to replace ND.

[mookie1995]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

1988-2007 is.

hahahaha. dream on. maybe the puddin' was just as good in those shoulder years but that's it.

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

This is unrelated but slightly related I think Hockey East should try and get Quinnipiac to replace ND.

That is better discussed on the Notre Dame leaves Hockey East for Big 10 thread.

Sean

[defkit]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

BU is a big for because of Parker and his success. Quinn isn't doing great but hes kept the program in the top 4 so he gets a reprieve for now but it's on thin ice. I can see BU being relegated to the Mid pack tier with a few lackluster years and recruits start recognizing the medicine woman isn't producing champion ship teams.

Wow. Has a coach that in his first three seasons has taken his team to two NCAAs and one title game, and won the HE title, ever been doubted so much? I'm amazed at how much people are writing him off as not being a good coach, based on play over a handful of games. Is he the best coach in the country? No, but my goodness, give the guy a chance to learn and adapt. All three of his seasons have been very different at the outset and have provided their own set of challenges.

The results in his first three years are better than the body of work over Parker's last 16 seasons, save for one dream season in 2009. I don't like the way this season ended, but I'm still very pleased that he is the coach.

[UML Puck Hawk]

The results in his first three years are better than the body of work over Parker's last 16 seasons, save for one dream season in 2009. I don't like the way this season ended, but I'm still very pleased that he is the coach.

And exempting one dream season with a borderline generational talent Quinn has done?

[Split-N]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

...The Big 4 is pretty easy right now, BC, UML, PC, BU...

Agree for the reasons stated. But UConn has the resources, coaching, and institutional commitment to make it a Big 5, and sooner rather than later. Northeastern seems to have made an institutional commitment and appears to have a solid recruiting pipeline, but questions linger about coaching. If they play like they played the last few months of this season over the whole of next season, we could well have a Big Six.

Beyond that, Merrimack may not have the resources to keep up with the pack. Blue Chip recruits (or more precisely, their "advisors,") like the bright lights and big cities, so Maine and Vermont have become hard places to sell on the recruiting trail. UMass remains a mystery wrapped up inside of an enigma until we know who'll head up that program.

Not sure what to make of UNH.

[BC/HE]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

UVM? Nope, Sneddon has made the team better, but he has hit a wall. In fact if anything the program is actually sliding backwards. ..

And breaking that wall is as simple as Burlington going out and building a state of the art 8000-9000 seat arena. The potential is there more than anywhere else in the league if that happens.

[Patman]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

And breaking that wall is as simple as Burlington going out and building a state of the art 8000-9000 seat arena. The potential is there more than anywhere else in the league if that happens.

To be fair, they've been talking about that new building FOREVER.

[Chuck Murray]

Re: Hockey East: A New Big 4?

The current Big 4 is BC, BU hanging in there but possible on the edge, UML and PC. Here's why, it's not league standings or seasonal records. It's coaching and the program.

Totally agree, it's coaching first, coaching second, sustained culture of winning third, and coaching fourth.

BC has York and while they may have a down year that's it. At least until the old man retires.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Jerry is no longer running the show, but so long as he's still there, he's showing no signs of slowing down. Remarkable, really.

BU is a big for because of Parker and his success. Quinn isn't doing great but hes kept the program in the top 4 so he gets a reprieve for now but it's on thin ice. I can see BU being relegated to the Mid pack tier with a few lackluster years and recruits start recognizing the medicine woman isn't producing champion ship teams.

Thin ice may be an overstatement, but I can see BU slipping if they can't retain their recruiting momentum. It may turn out that Quinn never gets closer to the big prize than O'Connor's own goal last Spring. That's my guess.

UML brought in a new coach and immediately had success that they have sustained. That's not going away. With the elimination of the 20 seniors roster, the program will be more consistent and will always be right there in the top 4 or the cusp of it in a sustained way.

The only question with Coach Bazin - and as the UNHer's know, currently my favorite D-1 head coach - is whether he's going to be able to get one of his teams over the top. The program has been established, and is annually competitive at the top end of the league now, and for UML these are the good old days, no doubt about it. But two decades ago a new head coach returning to rescue his alma mater from the doldrums was beginning to pick up rave notices for his own turnaround job not too far north of Lowell. That guy cruised in the so-called Big 4 of HE for well over a decade, won some modest hardware for the program, and was a regular participant in the FF, with four trips and two appearances in the Finals, with one going to OT. But he never got his program truly over the top. Bazin's got at least a half decade of sustained similar success to get UML to the promised land before it's even fair to compare and begin to ask questions ...

PC is a bit of question mark as they have benefited greatly from a few key players, but they showed this year it wasn't just Gilles or a few others. But the coaching staff again came in new and produced a quality team that they have maintained for several seasons. I think they are a top 4.

... and perhaps it's because Coach Leaman did get his program to the top last year that Coach Bazin is (somewhat unfairly) left in catch-up mode in the battle of The Alliance. But so long as Leaman stays put, and the school remains fully committed to him, then I don't see PC slipping back anytime soon. I like their future better than I like BU's under Coach Quinn, and I can see PC eclipsing BC someday after York is no longer there. Leaman - like his original mentor (Walshy) - knows his way around building a winning program out of nothing.

After that the question becomes whose going to challenge them? Northeastern? Possibly but they haven't show the same consistent success, even with Roy, Smatz, etc... They've had the recruits and I think they are a mid tier team, but not capable of sustained success.

I think NU will be a volatile program, always struggling in the shadow of BC and BU, but catching lightning in a bottle once in awhile, like they did this past season. I give Coach Madigan a ton of credit for his job with the team this season, but I don't know if he is capable of being the guy who finally establishes consistent success for the NU program.

UNH? Not until they get rid of Umile. The team had it's heyday, breaking the rules moved them to a mid tier team and that lack of success has kept the high end recruits coming in.

They were already sliding by the time the rules thingie came up, but no one outside of Durham really noticed. It's almost as you say about your own program - they hit a wall, lost their upwards momentum, and now they're probably down for the foreseeable future. My guess is we'll probably have to wait until the guy after Coach Souza for the big turnaround.

Maine? Gendron has show to be only marginally better the Timmay, certainly nothing to bring the program back into year after year after year of success.

Gendron has not been "marginally better" than Whitehead, he's been a disaster. And they just extended him. When I see how far UNH has fallen, I look at what's happened to UMaine, and I realize those folks have it far worse than we do.

UVM? Nope, Sneddon has made the team better, but he has hit a wall. In fact if anything the program is actually sliding backwards.

Agreed. Very "UNH three years" ago vibe. But get the right coach in, and I love the potential up there.

UConn? As much as I hate to give the fans any fodder, they perhaps have the best shot at becoming a Big 4 team. Good coach, larger school, etc etc. There is a lot of unknown with that program but a lot of potential.

People are saying the same things about UConn now that they did about UMass when they upgraded/joined HE twenty-something years ago. It's really never changed in Amherst, and I don't see it happening any time soon in Storrs either.

The Big 4 is pretty easy right now, BC, UML, PC, BU...

Agreed, and I think this is pretty much the way it will stay for the better part of the next 5 seasons. I think the only movements likely in that period will be between mid-tier and lower tier programs. The only chance of a big shake-up at the top would be if Quinnipiac came in and joined HE ... but I don't think that's going to happen. I'm sure HE would love to have them ... but I just don't see Quinnipiac having any real driving reason to leave their current situation in the ECAC.

So all hail the New Big 4 - I think this is what it's going to look like for awhile.