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WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

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  • #76
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    No chance. Even in the heyday of the WCHA, with UND playing Minnesota and other traditional rivals, we never saw anything approaching those types of numbers from UND fans.

    Candidly, we've probably seen about what we we'll see out of UND fan support. If they're not going to come and watch a 30 win team, why will more come in other years?

    My fear, as others have expressed, is what happens when UND goes through a stretch like we did in the early to mid-90's. Don't kid yourself. We are destined to see that happen again. That happens, and unless something else has changed, the NCHC is going to be in rough financial shape regarding its tournament.

    I actually think the NCHC, certainly more than the current WCHA, would benefit financially from all playoff series being played on campus, as it was when I was in college. The rinks would be jammed. The members of the conference, for the most part, have nice sized rinks.

    Take this year for example. Lets say instead of the Frozen Face off, following the first round series, DU traveled to SCSU for a best of 3 and UMD traveled to UND for a best of three. And lets say both series were won in two games by the home team, so the final weekend would be a best of three between SCSU and UND in Grand Forks.

    You'd have 10,300 fans see the SCSU-DU games, 23,200 fans see the UMD-UND games, and another 23,200 see the SCSU-UND finals. That's a heck of a lot more than we've seen at Target Center for the weekend. IMHO, that's the way the NCHC needs to go. Was successful for years in the old WCHA.
    And they'll even play to a champion (which the old WCHA rarely did)! I think the WCHA should do it too, but they have more travel issues than the NCHC.
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    • #77
      Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

      Originally posted by aparch View Post
      Which is fine and well, but that's for TV broadcast. BTN+ was the provider of the webstream, of which they upcharged to view it.
      FSGo was also a provider of the stream. Most cable companies offer it for the Fox national and Fox locals you are subscribed to, unless you are with the devil that is Comcast which does not have an agreement with FS Detroit.
      Last edited by Spartanforlife4; 03-22-2016, 01:34 PM.
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      • #78
        Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

        Originally posted by Bale View Post
        Thats just plain ignorant of reality. Msu for sure and probably tech would have made it last year. Msu was the #1 overall seed. It ridiculous to say it was only because of the weakened conference. Msu made it in the last year of the old wcha and were improving. Ferris was in the national championship in 2012 and went again in the 2014 and won a game there.

        The reality is that no one knows if it opened up opportunities for these teams. They were already improving and we're be oming players in the old conference. The undeniable reality is that these schools are worse off financially. Leaving out conference tournaments, expenses are up and revenues are down for most/all wcha schools. In the short run they MAY be seeing more on ice success, but whether that creates long term Fina vial stability is highly in doubt.
        I think what he was saying is that if you were to sprinkle North Dakota, Denver, UNO etc. into MSU's schedule last year, where do they end up in the PWR? I don't think it's a stretch to say they aren't the #1 overall seed.

        MSU was becoming a player in the WCHA? Before the final year where they got in, it had been like 10 years since they made the tournament. They certainly weren't pushovers but they weren't yearly contenders either. Tech making it to the Final Five was a cause for celebration. They were consistently in the bottom 3 of the conference. Part of the reason for their success now is probably Mel Pearson, but let's not pretend that MTU and MSU were about to take over the old WCHA.

        Lastly, and this seems to be something none of the butthurt WCHA fans want to acknowledge, it is the responsibility of YOUR fanbase to support your team. No one feels bad for the little schools that are no longer getting the sweet conference tournament money that was largely brought in by North Dakota, Minnesota, and Michigan fans. It shouldn't be on the bigger schools to subsidize the smaller ones. If the community of Houghton or Bemidji or Sault Ste. Marie can't make their college hockey program profitable or even breakeven, that isn't the fault of the programs that wanted something better for themselves.
        Originally posted by SJHovey
        Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
        Originally posted by Brenthoven
        We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

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        • #79
          Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

          Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
          I think what he was saying is that if you were to sprinkle North Dakota, Denver, UNO etc. into MSU's schedule last year, where do they end up in the PWR? I don't think it's a stretch to say they aren't the #1 overall seed.
          Five of MSU and Tech's former conference mates were good enough to make the tournament last year, even ignoring Minnesota. Pretty naive to think that the chances of MSU and Tech to make the tournament, or be the #1 overall seed, weren't affected by conference realignment, notwithstanding the fact that both programs were and are heading in the right direction under their current coaches.
          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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          • #80
            Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

            Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
            I think what he was saying is that if you were to sprinkle North Dakota, Denver, UNO etc. into MSU's schedule last year, where do they end up in the PWR? I don't think it's a stretch to say they aren't the #1 overall seed.

            MSU was becoming a player in the WCHA? Before the final year where they got in, it had been like 10 years since they made the tournament. They certainly weren't pushovers but they weren't yearly contenders either. Tech making it to the Final Five was a cause for celebration. They were consistently in the bottom 3 of the conference. Part of the reason for their success now is probably Mel Pearson, but let's not pretend that MTU and MSU were about to take over the old WCHA.

            Lastly, and this seems to be something none of the butthurt WCHA fans want to acknowledge, it is the responsibility of YOUR fanbase to support your team. No one feels bad for the little schools that are no longer getting the sweet conference tournament money that was largely brought in by North Dakota, Minnesota, and Michigan fans. It shouldn't be on the bigger schools to subsidize the smaller ones. If the community of Houghton or Bemidji or Sault Ste. Marie can't make their college hockey program profitable or even breakeven, that isn't the fault of the programs that wanted something better for themselves.

            BSU has never relied on the bigger schools providing profit for them. Lets remember the facts that BSU had to pay to get into the WCHA and would not see any profits from the tournament for at least 3 years I believe? The WCHA wasnt around long enough after that to send any money their way. So although i understand the bigger ego schools of Denver and UND being frustrated with subsizing the smaller schools, its not fair to group BSU into that category.

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            • #81
              Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

              Originally posted by jdmaxim23 View Post
              BSU has never relied on the bigger schools providing profit for them. Lets remember the facts that BSU had to pay to get into the WCHA and would not see any profits from the tournament for at least 3 years I believe? The WCHA wasnt around long enough after that to send any money their way. So although i understand the bigger ego schools of Denver and UND being frustrated with subsizing the smaller schools, its not fair to group BSU into that category.
              I never said they did. I said "if the communities" can't support their team. I just threw them out as an example of a city.
              Originally posted by SJHovey
              Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
              Originally posted by Brenthoven
              We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

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              • #82
                Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

                This thread is a good reason as to why I wanted to electrocute anybody and everybody who posted a "realignment" thread over the preceding decade. Nothing good could come of it and so far nothing has.
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                • #83
                  Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

                  Originally posted by Arafel View Post
                  If North Dakota, Denver, St. Cloud, and Duluth were still in the WCHA, and Miami still in the CCHA, would Minnesota State or Michigan Tech have made the NCAA tournament last year? No, they wouldn't have.
                  I think there is a very good chance Tech would still be in the tourney. I'll be the first to admit that the Huskies were the "WCHA Doormat" for many seasons. I supported the team through a long stretch of bad hockey including three seasons of 6, 5 and 4 wins per year from 2008-2011. Not conference wins mind you, but TOTAL wins.

                  A lot has changed since Coach Pearson arrive on campus. In his first year he took a team that won FOUR games the prior before and got them to 16 wins, missing WCHA home ice by two points. The following two seasons the team won 13 and 14 games, not great, but still a vast improvement over the last decade. The last two seasons the team has gone 29-8-3 and 23-9-5 grabbing a #1 seed in the NCAA tourney last season and barely missing the tourney this year. Had MTU not laid an egg against Ferris last weekend most observers (and the PWR) would agree Tech would have been in the tourney again this season in spite of the awful non-conference record of the WCHA this season.

                  Would Tech be winning the WCHA if the former 12 teams were still in the mix? Maybe not, but I'm pretty sure they would be right there in the final weeks and also in the mix for a spot in the NCAA tourney. At this point it is all hypothetical, but I'm pretty confident that the teams Tech has put on the ice the last two seasons can compete with anyone. Win every game? No. Capable of beating anyone, on any given day, certainly.

                  Ryan
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                  • #84
                    Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

                    Originally posted by JohnsonsJerseys View Post
                    . The last two seasons the team has gone 29-8-3 and 23-9-5 grabbing a #1 seed in the NCAA tourney last season and barely missing the tourney this year.
                    Michigan Tech was a #2 seed last year in the NCAA's
                    Last edited by billmich88888; 03-22-2016, 02:19 PM.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
                      I think what he was saying is that if you were to sprinkle North Dakota, Denver, UNO etc. into MSU's schedule last year, where do they end up in the PWR? I don't think it's a stretch to say they aren't the #1 overall seed.

                      MSU was becoming a player in the WCHA? Before the final year where they got in, it had been like 10 years since they made the tournament. They certainly weren't pushovers but they weren't yearly contenders either. Tech making it to the Final Five was a cause for celebration. They were consistently in the bottom 3 of the conference. Part of the reason for their success now is probably Mel Pearson, but let's not pretend that MTU and MSU were about to take over the old WCHA.

                      Lastly, and this seems to be something none of the butthurt WCHA fans want to acknowledge, it is the responsibility of YOUR fanbase to support your team. No one feels bad for the little schools that are no longer getting the sweet conference tournament money that was largely brought in by North Dakota, Minnesota, and Michigan fans. It shouldn't be on the bigger schools to subsidize the smaller ones. If the community of Houghton or Bemidji or Sault Ste. Marie can't make their college hockey program profitable or even breakeven, that isn't the fault of the programs that wanted something better for themselves.
                      Again, let's base this off of facts. Msu was #1 in the country before January 1. At that point the msu so was.in the top 5 in the country. Yes, it plummeted once it got to the meat of the wcha schedule. It was that way because uno, umd, and mn were on the schedule. Could they have fallen down? Of course. The original premise is that msu wouldn't have made the tournament with it being in the wcha. That is where the faulty logic lies.

                      You're putting words into my mouth in saying that msu was going to "take over the old wcha". I never said that or insinuated it. Again, my only argument is that it's foolish to say that the only reason msu and mtu have risen up is because of the conference shift. They both made significant changes to their programs before the conference changed. Things were looking positively for both schools after they made their coaching changes. They both made significant investments into their.programs before the conference switched.

                      Lastly, you're right, it is the responsibility of each school to support their team. I have.long said thatmsu, for example, gave no one any reason to think that they were committed. They had ignored the program for too long and that perception still existed when the realignment happened (and for that matter, the perception still exists). The problem that i see with everything that has happened is that the supposed pot of gold that was waiting for the b10 and nchc never materialized. Frankly, the B10 still hasn't realized it and are refusing to stick their head in the sand. The nchc is better off, bUT still seems to not be willing to admit it isn't quite what they expected. No one seemed to give a **** what the commoners (ie their customers) wanted.

                      It seems as though that no one wants to admit that things aren't all that rosyexcept those from the wcha (although with a bit too much bitterness for my liking). It's ok to admit mistakes and this certainly seems like one. Now it's time to fix what's wrong and, in my opinion, nothing should be off the table.

                      When all of this stuff started troy jutting, of all people, said something that I haven't forgotten. His comment was, "change isn't necessarily bad. College hockey is as good as its ever been. So, if you're going to change it, you **** well better be sure that it's a change for the better." Can anyone honestly say that this had been a change for the better of colege hockey? I'm not so sure we can. And if it hasn't changed for the better, don't shouldn't the leaders of the conferences and schools put their egos aside to change it for the better?
                      Mess with the bull, you get the horns.

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                      • #86
                        Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

                        Originally posted by Arafel View Post
                        would Minnesota State or Michigan Tech have made the NCAA tournament last year? No, they wouldn't have.
                        This is easy to assume, but not provable. Tech had a good team last year, and beat some top ten teams which is why they had the #1 ranking for a while. They played one of the toughest schedules in the country.
                        Similar story for Mankato. Remember that both teams made the tournament on their merits last year.
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                        • #87
                          Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

                          A similar thing occurred back when Hockey East formed and split from the old 18 team ECAC. The ECAC retained the Boston Garden as the host venue for their tournament and Hockey east held their tournament at the Providence Civic Center. After a just two years of the tournament in Providence (1985 & 86) Hockey East moved it to the Boston Garden, after the ECAC Tournament, on Sunday and Monday nights (1987). The following year they had 2-game, total goals semifinals at the higher seeds on Tuesday & Wednesday and then the championship at Boston Garden on the following Monday (1988). It then moved to Boston College's then new Conte Forum (1989). Then for 1990 the ECAC and Hockey East agreed to hold both tournaments at Boston Garden Friday through Sunday under the name Hockeyfest. Hockey East semifinals were to be Friday and the ECAC semifinals on Saturday with both championship games on Sunday. However, the 1990 Hockeyfest was cancelled due to a measles outbreak at the University of Maine and the semifinals were held at the higher seeds (UMaine and BC) and the final was at the higher seed (BC). In 1991 & 92 the two leagues held their joint championships as part of Hockeyfest and but after the two years decided to not continue it and go their separate ways.The ECAC decided to move their tournament and Hockey East remained at Boston Garden and then TD Garden. Since then it has grown and become a successful tournament. Meanwhile, the ECAC has continued to move their tournament around, most disastrously to Atlantic City several years ago.

                          With the three western tournaments I see a similar issue, especially with the WCHA and B1G moving their tournaments between different cities. I have looked at the attendance figures for all three for the past three years and the NCHC has done the best, growing from the first year to last year and then remaining stable this year. The B1G actually had a good first tournament in St. Paul, almost equaling the NCHC per session figure and having about 2000 more for the championship game. However, last year in Detroit attendance took a huge drop and when it returned to St. Paul this year the fans didn't and attendance was slightly lower than last year. The WCHA started in Grand Rapids and had poor attendance in 2014, but last year in St. Paul it more than doubled, bettering the B1G by more than 2000 per session. This year back in Grand Rapids it dropped again, but was better than 2014.

                          It appears the NCHC has a strong start to a really solid tournament and that it can grow regardless of the other two tournaments an it seems to me that it is in the best possible location for the NCHC. In my opinion both the B1G and WCHA appear to be hurting themselves by moving their tournaments between cities. I think St. Paul appears to be a better fit for the WCHA, but I've read that many liked the atmosphere at Van Andel Arena this year, so maybe it can grow and become a success in Grand Rapids, but I think the league needs to settle on one location. As for the B1G, St. Paul was a disappointment this year, but so was Detroit last year. Maybe, as has been mentioned, Chicago would make for a good location, but it is also likely that part of the attendance problems have to do with the teams not being very good since the B1G formed.

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                          • #88
                            Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

                            Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                            With the three western tournaments I see a similar issue, especially with the WCHA and B1G moving their tournaments between different cities. I have looked at the attendance figures for all three for the past three years and the NCHC has done the best, growing from the first year to last year and then remaining stable this year. The B1G actually had a good first tournament in St. Paul, almost equaling the NCHC per session figure and having about 2000 more for the championship game. However, last year in Detroit attendance took a huge drop and when it returned to St. Paul this year the fans didn't and attendance was slightly lower than last year. The WCHA started in Grand Rapids and had poor attendance in 2014, but last year in St. Paul it more than doubled, bettering the B1G by more than 2000 per session. This year back in Grand Rapids it dropped again, but was better than 2014.

                            It appears the NCHC has a strong start to a really solid tournament and that it can grow regardless of the other two tournaments an it seems to me that it is in the best possible location for the NCHC. In my opinion both the B1G and WCHA appear to be hurting themselves by moving their tournaments between cities. I think St. Paul appears to be a better fit for the WCHA, but I've read that many liked the atmosphere at Van Andel Arena this year, so maybe it can grow and become a success in Grand Rapids, but I think the league needs to settle on one location. As for the B1G, St. Paul was a disappointment this year, but so was Detroit last year. Maybe, as has been mentioned, Chicago would make for a good location, but it is also likely that part of the attendance problems have to do with the teams not being very good since the B1G formed.

                            Sean
                            I think what it shows is that Detroit's claim of being "Hockeytown" is clearly BS, while Minnesota is truly the "State of Hockey".

                            Thank you, tip your waitress!
                            Originally posted by SJHovey
                            Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
                            Originally posted by Brenthoven
                            We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

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                            • #89
                              Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

                              Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
                              I think what it shows is that Detroit's claim of being "Hockeytown" is clearly BS, while Minnesota is truly the "State of Hockey".
                              Thank you, tip your waitress!
                              It's only "hockeytown" based on the Red Wings.

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                              • #90
                                Re: WCHA Pushing To Team With Big Ten, NCHC For Conference Tournaments

                                Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
                                I think what it shows is that Detroit's claim of being "Hockeytown" is clearly BS, while Minnesota is truly the "State of Hockey".

                                Thank you, tip your waitress!
                                The state of hockey and hockeytown don't matter. The state of hockey didn't turn out to support the big ten tourney. It's where the teams are from. Locations with the old conferences were centralized with schools around them, now we end with lower peninsula Michigan teams having to travel to the twin cities and teams like MSU having to go to Grand Rapids. It's stupid for playoffs and it's stupid for the regular season.

                                It's a lot harder to travel to away games from campus now as you're going much longer distances. Better competition aside, making conferences aligned to anything but geography takes a lot of the sense out of it and ruins the atmosphere at a lot of venues and costs the teams a lot more.
                                MTU Hockey fan since I was carried to a game in 1986 - for those counting... that's a lot of depressing hockey. Still love it.

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