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PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

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  • #31
    Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

    Originally posted by ARM View Post
    What the BSU versus Northeastern comparison highlights is that it is more difficult to just win when sharing a league with two power teams rather than one.
    Also when you play those teams four times each rather than three.

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    • #32
      Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

      Originally posted by wwhyte View Post
      Also when you play those teams four times each rather than three.
      We played bc 4 times this year as we do most years.

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      • #33
        Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

        Originally posted by NUWH DogHouse View Post
        We played bc 4 times this year as we do most years.
        which other top 3 team did you play 4 times?

        and in another week it will be 5 times

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        • #34
          Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

          Originally posted by NUWH DogHouse View Post
          We played bc 4 times this year as we do most years.
          Right, but my point was that in the WCHA with two very strong teams, the fact that everyone plays everyone four times makes it very difficult for the lower teams. Contrast with Hockey East, where everyone plays everyone three times, or ECAC, where everyone plays everyone twice (or CHA, where there are no very strong teams ). The damage done to the lower-placed teams in those other conferences simply isn't as great. Maybe the lower ranked WCHA teams should be lobbying for three in-conference games a year rather than four and eight more OOCs?

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          • #35
            Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

            Originally posted by wwhyte View Post
            Maybe the lower ranked WCHA teams should be lobbying for three in-conference games a year rather than four and eight more OOCs?
            That isn't practical with the greater travel distances. Columbus, Ohio is a long way to go for one game.
            "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
            And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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            • #36
              Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

              Originally posted by ARM View Post
              That isn't practical with the greater travel distances. Columbus, Ohio is a long way to go for one game.
              I know, I was being a bit facetious. If travel was free, though, I'd love to see this.

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              • #37
                Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

                Originally posted by wwhyte View Post
                Maybe the lower ranked WCHA teams should be lobbying for three in-conference games a year rather than four and eight more OOCs?
                Except that you'd lose more than you'd gain with this "cure." The tradition of the two game series goes back generations in the West. In the Women's WCHA, it's been in use since Day 1. For those of us who don't usually travel -- meaning most -- you get a much better sense of the opposing teams when you see a pair of games. Even more importantly, having all 8 teams play the exact same schedule makes for a much fairer conference race.

                Originally posted by ARM View Post
                That isn't practical with the greater travel distances. Columbus, Ohio is a long way to go for one game.
                Certainly not disagreeing with the thrust of your comment, but wwhyte is correct that cost is more of a culprit than distance. CMH to MSP is an easy non-stop flight; less than two hours. Compare with a five hour bus trip to State College, Pa. Minnesota is the easier trip in terms of energy, lost study time and so on.

                Originally posted by wwhyte View Post
                I know, I was being a bit facetious. If travel was free, though, I'd love to see this.
                In the abstract, all of us would like to see more non-conference play. But the current WCHA schedule is a great asset that should be preserved if at all possible.

                Circling back to the original problem: In this particular year, it does bother me that Bemidji is likely to be left out of the field of eight. But in most other years, the "near miss" teams aren't a huge threat to make the FF, much less win a national title. Worse, the NCAA tournament's horrible travel policy almost guarantees an intra-conference rematch in the first round, should Bemidji somehow qualify. Give up the current WCHA schedule for such results? I'd respectfully decline.

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                • #38
                  Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

                  The answer is friggin simple, you are all making this WAY TOO COMPLEX. There is no need to change the conf scedule from 4 games vs each conf member to 3 or anything like that. Just scrap the idiotic Pairwise Rating based almost completely on the even more idiotic RPI rating.


                  Check out BSU's and even UND's ratings in the Krach rating or in Massey's Rating. Both have BSU in 6th and UND at #9, I believe, or at least the last time I checked.



                  Teams like BSU shouldn't be punished for having such a tough scedule, while team's like NE are rewarded for playing such a creampuff scedule.


                  But they are. And like so often happens, the field of 8 will be a majority of eastern teams, but more than likely a Western team will still win the Title. Because the best hockey is played in the West.


                  The NCAA could put up the best 7 eastern teams vs either Minnesota or Wisconsin, and a WCHA team would probably still win the Natl Title. Has there EVER been a year when there wasn't more eastern teams in the tourney than western teams? Yet how many Titles has the east won?



                  But I'm not complaining, its better for Minnesota if BSU and UND are not in the tourney. I'm loving the idea that the tourney will be 6 eastern teams vs Minny and Wisconsin. lol I just pray that somehow UMn and Wisconsin don't have to play before the Final. Maybe UND can upset Wisconsin in the Semis of the Conf tourney and UW can drop down to 4th in the PWR? lol I doubt that is possible, but thats what I'm hoping for.

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                  • #39
                    Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

                    Originally posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
                    like so often happens, the field of 8 will be a majority of eastern teams...Has there EVER been a year when there wasn't more eastern teams in the tourney than western teams?
                    There are a lot more eastern teams than there are western teams

                    #maths
                    Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                    Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                    Twitter: @Salzano14


                    Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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                    • #40
                      Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

                      Originally posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
                      Maybe UND can upset Wisconsin in the Semis of the Conf tourney and UW can drop down to 4th in the PWR? lol I doubt that is possible, but thats what I'm hoping for.
                      http://www.bcinterruption.com/boston...ege-quinnipiac
                      Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                      Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                      Twitter: @Salzano14


                      Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

                        Originally posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
                        Maybe UND can upset Wisconsin in the Semis of the Conf tourney and UW can drop down to 4th in the PWR? lol I doubt that is possible, but thats what I'm hoping for.
                        Yes, it is possible for Wisconsin or Minnesota to drop to #4. But it seems they depend on not only losing in the WCHA semis, but also dropping a game this weekend on their way to the WCHA semis.

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                        • #42
                          Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

                          Originally posted by robertearle View Post
                          Yes, it is possible for Wisconsin or Minnesota to drop to #4. But it seems they depend on not only losing in the WCHA semis, but also dropping a game this weekend on their way to the WCHA semis.
                          Yeah, that is kind of what I assumed was the case and hence why I said I doubted it was possible, because Mn St is REALLY bad and I can't see OSU beating the Gophers either. Just sucks that at this rate, BC is going to basically walk right into the Natl Title game before having to play a western team when in reality, its possible that BOTH UMn and Wisconsin are better than BC, so BC could possibly play an ENTIRE season all the way through to the Natl Title game before having to play anyone who undoubtedly deserves to make the NCAA tourney. NE has lost every game it played vs a Top Ten rated team, but just by playing less Top Ten rated teams than BSU and UND, NE gets rated better than BSU and UND. And so now, UMn and Wisconsin are probably going to have to play each other for the SIXTH TIME THIS YEAR, and its very possible that the winner of that game might not even prove which team is better because the way the UMn/Wisc series has gone, its likely that the winner of the WCHA Conf Title game, if they both get to that game, which most believe they will, could just as easily lose that NCAA semi-final game, leaving the teams tied 3-3.


                          More intra-conf play would help as well, but thats a financial burden that some programs can't handle, so again I say, the best and easiest and cheapest solution is simply to scrap the PWR based mostly on the RPI and move towards a rating system that is more accurate, or something that takes several rating systems into account. It might not matter right now, this season, as its very hard to believe that anyone outside of BC-UMn-UW could win a Natl Title this year, and all 3 of them will get into the tourney and probably make the Frozen Four as well, but teams like BSU and UND are catching up to UMn and UW and probably deserve to get into the NCAA tourney.

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                          • #43
                            Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

                            Bemidji might want to have a great third period before complaining too much.

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                            • #44
                              Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

                              Originally posted by Eeyore View Post
                              Bemidji might want to have a great third period before complaining too much.
                              There are still ways to get Bemidji up to #7, but they involve Bemidji beating Minnesota AND Northeastern losing two straight to Providence AND Lindenwood beating Mercyhurst.

                              So....

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                              • #45
                                Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

                                Originally posted by robertearle View Post
                                There are still ways to get Bemidji up to #7, but they involve Bemidji beating Minnesota AND Northeastern losing two straight to Providence AND Lindenwood beating Mercyhurst.

                                So....
                                Northeastern has lost to Lindenwood before, so... And Lindenwood HAS beaten Northeastern before, so...

                                Comment

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