UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

600 wins. You think it's a coincidence that he is 40 short, the team is just below 20 wins per season, soooo you do the math. Throw in a schedule with a bunch of tomato can wins, and there's your three years.

You're right! Makes more sense than the NC scenario.

Coach Mac has a higher salary than Coach Umile

Good for Coach Mac.

May not get there now, at 10-12 wins per season?

Yup!

And, several others now, including Huddleston, I think.

DU must be happy the pressure is off now!

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

May not get there now, at 10-12 wins per season?

There is a rivalry with Bentley and AIC to stoke. Perhaps back to back games each season? We already jumped on 5-17 Colorado College for next year. I trust Dick to pay attention to these details that really matter.

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

I lived through Holt's final 84-85 season, where they had top end talent (Steve Leach, James Richmond), but weak depth after that on forward, and five freshmen defensemen: Mark Babcock, Jeff Cournoyer, Kevin Schrader, Mike Roth and Greg Boudreau and a pathetic upperclassman (Peter Wotton).
The next season was Kullen's first, and he continued to suffer as now sophomore D just were not up to par.
By 87-88 he had cut all of them except walk-on Boudreau. Replaced with two NHLers Adrien Plavsic, Kevin Dean, a All-Hockey East kid (Dave McIntire) and a pretty decent local kid from Berwick (Grassie).
They were the foundation that carried Umile to the 1992 HE playoff success.

That's what typically happens with coaching changes and the new guy having free reign, even if he recruited some of them. Given where we are, with many of Borek's good recruits leaving, and many of Borek's weak recruits (I see about four who are likely to be roster fillers) not having options elsewhere, so still "committed," this will be a five to six year rebuild unless there are some harsh decisions made. It would be nice to have the new boss able to make those.

First, Charlie's last year was '85-'86. Second, who might I ask recruited the likes of Babcock, Schrader and Roth? I remember those recruits. Babcock was from Burlington, I believe. We went to see him in a Hockey Night in Boston event at Stoneham Arena. He took a couple of shifts and we asked "this guy is a D1 player?" As for Schrader and Roth, late gets from Minnesota. I remember Kullen coming back from that recruiting trip and bragging he had found a couple of guys who had flown under the radar. Turns out, for a reason. Watcher, back then I had a good friend who has since passed away who spent a lot of time at UNH practices. He told me that Sean Coady made it his personal mission to get these last two guys to leave the program. Not sure if those tactics are used today, but maybe they should be.

As many others did, I made the decision to watch the Pats game, then make it over to the Whit. I was walking towards the arena when I received a text from one of the guys we left behind asking "do you sure you want to walk in there?" It was 3-1 when we sat down, with UNH beginning a PP. Hadn't even taken off my coat and some NU guy is steaming toward the UNH end on breakaway, 4-1, quickly 4-2, then total meltdown in the third. I had gone to the Friday game in Boston and could not believe how disengaged the team was. Matthews has never been a great place for UNH even when they had good teams. But the lack of effort, the amount of unforced errors, the inability to put a pass on a stick was just awful. I walked out of that game with a thought, reinforced the next night, that UNH is going nowhere fast. Two losses to ND coming up, then two more at Providence, then two more on an at BC, at Lowell weekend means we're looking down the barrel of a ten game losing streak.

Like Watcher my thoughts this weekend did turn to the last years of Charlie Holt. Like Umile, he relied on his assistants to bring in the players. And why not. From the time he took over through the early 80's he coached some fabulous players. But, like Umile, in those last couple of seasons, the recruiters failed him. And like Umile, because of his loyalty to his underlings, he couldn't make the changes that had to be made. The only difference is that Charlie's hand was never forced, Umile's hand has been. Turnarounds that last less than 5 or 6 years can be done. Back in the late 80's, as Watcher says, a whole new gaggle of recruits with better skills and higher hockey intelligence cane to UNH and by 1990 UNH made it back to the HE semi-finals and two years later they were in the tournament. I will tell you this though, you can't be a nice guy and get this done. Whether Souza is the right guy only time will tell.

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Like others, I'm done. Got a stack of season tix on my desk; will be stunned if I use them myself - giveaways. And no, not refreshing them next year...maybe in 4 years.

That's the other thing. Why am I paying top dollar to watch an inferior product when others come in paying half of what I do. I cut my ticket order a few years ago and I am just about ready to do it again, to zero. Saturday night's game was the worst. So much like Snively in the late 80's.

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Thanks for that Chuck. I knew there was more to the story than just the HEA semis. It's going to be a long two years! Isn't DU the highest paid state employee in NH? I guess Greg A would say he has earned the right to collect his paycheck and coast into retirement over the next two years, but I'm not so sure about that at this point. If DU is resigned to the fact that the gig is up and MS is the assured heir apparent then maybe he should consider riding off into the sunset sooner rather than later. Just sayin'! The only reason he is hanging on at this point is to win an NC (which is not going to happen!) before leaving. If that is the case, it is for personal reasons and nothing else. Holt was a great coach, obviously, who hung on too long. DU seems to be falling into the same trap as Watcher has intimated!

e.cat, I'm not saying Umile deserves anything. But the reality is that he has a contract that has a finite ending and my guess is that both of the parties that signed it will live up to its terms. I will agree that the ending is playing out much like it did for Coach Holt. Charlie was a great guy, he really was, not a mean bone in his body. I hated to see him go out the way he did but, years later, when we talked, what I thought about was his great teams not the lousy ones. I imagine it will be the same with Umile.

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

That's the other thing. Why am I paying top dollar to watch an inferior product when others come in paying half of what I do. I cut my ticket order a few years ago and I am just about ready to do it again, to zero. Saturday night's game was the worst. So much like Snively in the late 80's.

I figure too that next season I can buy half price tix and STILL sit where I always do. Just a thought...it's not for lack of wanting to support the team but it irks me I get emails with all kind of cool deals with food etc. when a STH can't even PARK closer to the 'Whitt? Every night we walk by the Alumni center and remark how nice it would be to be able to park here say 3 times a season; they could give STH's a parking pass with 3/4 dates/games where you could have the "privilege" of parking there as a perk? Lots of empty parking spaces = empty seats at the 'Whitt. The next few home games will tell quite a story. Not that anyone over there is noticing, tho?

Most likely next season I will just purchase one ST as hubby can't go to a lot of the games past Jan due to his Robotics team commitments so I'll save some $$.

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Greg

That's the other thing. Why am I paying top dollar to watch an inferior product when others come in paying half of what I do. I cut my ticket order a few years ago and I am just about ready to do it again, to zero.

Just the counterpart to UNH treating it as a business when they had the upper hand. You want to do that at the expense of loyalty, it works both ways.

On your other points, it will be interesting to see how UNH will honor its promises to kids. Although Umile went back on promises/assurances about what years the kids would arrive (Vecchione, Laleggia) and on rare occasions even on promises of money (Campbell, O'Neill), they have not done what most programs do -- cut kids or turn them away. I hate that part of the game, because for the most part the kids' not developing is on the recruiter, not the recruit. If teams want early commits, they should have agreements that bind both sides. That moralism aside, teams do this -- the more ruthless "professional" ones more so than others. North Dakota for example has about 10 kids who never made it on campus. Providence does this a fair amount now. Even BC, which is pretty honorable, has turned away Tiefenwerth, Evan Richardson, McMasters, Begert, Colin Sullivan.

Especially with a coaching change there is attrition. For UNH is has been uniformly negative -- the goods kids left, and with a few exceptions, we are left with Borek mistakes, those who have no real options. With them (and the current non-playing freshmen) being in the system for 5 more years, UNH is in a weaker position for a rebuild.

Just a couple of context points. Babcock was playing for Triton, which is where big recruit Bobby Corkum played. I wonder whether he was to entice Corkum, because Babcock certainly had no pedigree of his own. Roth was drafted after his junior HS year, so was not really under the radar. The Hockey News cited him as the star of the 85 Minn HS tourney. His problem was he was a linebacker, who tried to hit everything, and so was out of position. Schrader also was an NHL draft, for his size 6'3. Neither one had any mobility. Schrader, by the way, was the second best street hockey player, behind Quinton Brickley. His shot was lethal, from everywhere. Cournoyer was part of the Mt St Charles dynasty, but probably their fourth D. Again, not a real pedigree of his own, and I wonder whether UNH hoped to get one of Mt. St.Charles' real prospects.

Between Schrader, Wotton, Roth, and Al Brown, that was the slowest D I've ever seen.

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

...Sean Coady made it his personal mission to get these last two guys to leave the program.

Would not have wished that on anyone.

[wildcatdc]

Greg


Just the counterpart to UNH treating it as a business when they had the upper hand. You want to do that at the expense of loyalty, it works both ways.


Between Schrader, Wotton, Roth, and Al Brown, that was the slowest D I've ever seen.

I agree with your point on business/loyalty, Watcher. That said, if the goal was to pull from beyond the rabid loyal fan base, one can't really blame the University for going after the casual or uninitiated crowd. Unfortunately, that only works when you've got product. We don't. I think I'm echoing what you're saying.

Regarding Wotton - I think I asked you this before - he was a Rochester and Spaulding kid, right? I wonder if Langway had anything to do with that. He spent a few summers playing softball in the Rochester men's leagues. My first professional autograph!

[walrus]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Hate to be the wet blanket on all of today's positivity, but a 10-4 weekend sweep to NU will do that.

Not that I want you to be here, but welcome to my world. it sucks

[wildcatdc]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Sorry for the digression, but Bowie and Frey in the same week??? C'mon, man...

Not comparing the two, but sheeesh. How about some GOOD news???

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Regarding Wotton - I think I asked you this before - he was a Rochester and Spaulding kid, right? I wonder if Langway had anything to do with that. He spent a few summers playing softball in the Rochester men's leagues. My first professional autograph!

Yes, from Spaulding HS, and came with a bit of local hype, due to the Langway comparison of his dual hockey/football skill set. (I remeber McKenzie on local radio announcing he had committed). That comparison was way off, and probably far too simplistic. He was actually a pretty nice kid (in comparison to a third football/hockey player from NH, Gillies, who was a rotten human).

[wildcatdc]

Yes, from Spaulding HS, and came with a bit of local hype, due to the Langway comparison of his dual hockey/football skill set. (I remeber McKenzie on local radio announcing he had committed). That comparison was way off, and probably far too simplistic. He was actually a pretty nice kid (in comparison to a third football/hockey player from NH, Gillies, who was a rotten human).

Thanks, Watcher. The Wottons were a great family - played sports against the younger brother and sister (yes, she played little league).

How was Langway on the gridiron for UNH? Did he start at QB?

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Sorry for the digression, but Bowie and Frey in the same week??? C'mon, man...

Not comparing the two, but sheeesh. How about some GOOD news???

Seriously my friend. I read the news today oh boy....Hope to see you at the 'Whitt Friday!!!

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

"UNH Captain's Corner: Back-to-Back Loses"