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Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Ship

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  • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

    I honestly thought this whole thing had reached the bottom, and then this news comes out.
    Sixty Minutes. No Alibis. No Regrets.

    Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet
    Well... Baggott does kind of suck.
    Originally posted by UWisco
    It's funny, there is actually a "team" performing worse than the hockey team at the KC this year. The ushers/security are completely worthless.

    Comment


    • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

      Originally posted by Gandalf the Red View Post
      I honestly thought this whole thing had reached the bottom, and then this news comes out.
      Mike Eaves: Taking you to the bottom, smirking, then showing you the cave underneath it.
      Wisconsin Hockey Recruiting spreadsheet (both Men's and Women's)

      Comment


      • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

        Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
        You demote Shuchuck to #2 and make OZ #1, on the assurance from Oz we wants to stick around. That's a no brainer!
        I agree that today it seems a no brainer. But then? I have to disagree it was clear cut at all.

        How do you possibly get any assurance from Oz then when there was only one year contracts for assistants? Let alone the fact that his stock was still very high even after being fired and most believed he would be offered another HC job very soon. I don't see how any longer term commitment was possible from either side. Certainly not one that could be trusted.

        Oz wasn't fired from OSU until 3 weeks after UW's season was done. It seems highly likely that Shuchuck was told he would be retained as top assistant before then. And remember, that it's 2013. Since Schuchuk was promoted to top assistant in the wake of the November Butters debacle, the Badgers had the best record in the country at 21-5-5, and several players certainly credited Shuchuk's steady hand in seeing them through to a turn around. And they had a loaded team coming back. So Eaves had just told Shuchuk he was the guy, but then three weeks later he was supposed to go back on his word to Shuchuk (who at that point could certainly be judged to have been successful in his duties) to take a $30k cut in pay and a demotion because Oz was suddenly without a job and available for the next year? (Which is probably ostensibly the same thing as firing him.) I just find that would have been a very, very difficult way to operate the business at the time.

        Walsh's job was up for grabs to some extent and was posted. Obviously Oz wasn't going to apply for Walsh's job. So it wasn't Walsh instead of Oz.
        Originally posted by WiscTJK
        I'm with Wisko and Tim.
        Originally posted by Timothy A
        Other than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?

        Comment


        • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

          Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View Post
          I agree that today it seems a no brainer. But then? I have to disagree it was clear cut at all.

          How do you possibly get any assurance from Oz then when there was only one year contracts for assistants? Let alone the fact that his stock was still very high even after being fired and most believed he would be offered another HC job very soon. I don't see how any longer term commitment was possible from either side. Certainly not one that could be trusted.

          Oz wasn't fired from OSU until 3 weeks after UW's season was done. It seems highly likely that Shuchuck was told he would be retained as top assistant before then. And remember, that it's 2013. Since Schuchuk was promoted to top assistant in the wake of the November Butters debacle, the Badgers had the best record in the country at 21-5-5, and several players certainly credited Shuchuk's steady hand in seeing them through to a turn around. And they had a loaded team coming back. So Eaves had just told Shuchuk he was the guy, but then three weeks later he was supposed to go back on his word to Shuchuk (who at that point could certainly be judged to have been successful in his duties) to take a $30k cut in pay and a demotion because Oz was suddenly without a job and available for the next year? (Which is probably ostensibly the same thing as firing him.) I just find that would have been a very, very difficult way to operate the business at the time.

          Walsh's job was up for grabs to some extent and was posted. Obviously Oz wasn't going to apply for Walsh's job. So it wasn't Walsh instead of Oz.
          I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're making about a ton of assumptions here.

          Comment


          • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

            Originally posted by Chuck Schwartz View Post
            I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're making about a ton of assumptions here.
            I agree. But probably not more than a statement that just simply says Eaves hired Walsh over Osiecki does.
            Originally posted by WiscTJK
            I'm with Wisko and Tim.
            Originally posted by Timothy A
            Other than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?

            Comment


            • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

              And its Wisko to Eaves defense yet again.

              There is no defense of choosing a guy doing coaching seminars, with zero experience recruiting or at D1 level, when you have a former head coach, great assistant and top of the line recruiter available and desiring the job. No defense, ever.

              My take is Eaves ego got in the way. Now that is arse is on the line, he will consider him. Oz might not be interested after getting snubbed a few years ago.

              Athletic Dept - if your reading this there is still time to make this right and fire Eaves......
              gwhinwi's: Wisconsin Badgers Recruiting Spreadsheet & Individual Face-Off Statistics

              EODS: De-Commit / Non-Pro Early Departure List

              Comment


              • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

                I'm usually in the minority in these things, and I find myself there again. I don't think that it would have been the right move to hire Oz back in 2013.

                In an interesting twist, if you look back at the threads from 2013 all anyone had to say about Walsh were positive things:
                Hopefully Walsh applies for the permanent coaching position. I can see no reason why I wouldn't want him to continue on. The D seemed to get better with him on the staff
                I don't know Walsh personally, but everyone that I've talked to that he has coached absolutely raves about his ability to coach and teach players. Not a bad sign
                I would be happy with Walsh
                Walsh did a great job with the D last year

                Sure it is easy to look at the past with current information and see what happened in the past few years and say that it wasn't the best hire, but there are always going to be opportunities to look back into the past and say "of course that was the wrong decision, how could we have done that?!?" when at the time we say "this is the best option that we have right now"

                Oz left once for another program, and there is every indication that he will get a shot at a head position again. Maybe that will be at UW in a few years, maybe not. If a school has an opening and wants to talk to Oz do you honestly think that he is going to pass on another shot?

                I feel like we are setting ourselves up to be the Charlie Brown and Oz is Lucy holding the football. Screw us once, that's business and I'm fine with it; screw us twice, that's on us and we shouldn't have put ourselves in that situation.
                Could he be a great hire this time around? Absolutely!
                Could he be here for a year or two and then bolt again for a HC position? Absolutely!

                I can almost see it now...Eaves hires Oz back as the #1 assistant/associate. We turn things around and things get back to a decent place of making the tournament regularly. Eaves position is again secure. Oz sees that he isn't going to be moving ahead of Eaves and his ego pushes him to apply for an HC position somewhere else in 3-5 years. Oz leaves UW for another program and the fans go crazy! How could Eaves bring Oz back when he is a proven flight risk! We are going to have some top-level recruits leave to follow Oz. We are left scrambling to pull new recruits in, forcing unbalanced classes. And of course all of this falls on Eaves.

                But then again...Eaves doesn't hire Oz back. The fans go crazy. All of it falls on Eaves.

                Kind of a no-win situation in my book.

                Comment


                • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

                  Originally posted by WiscTJK View Post

                  Athletic Dept - if your reading this there is still time to make this right and fire Eaves......
                  I think it's pretty clear that they're not reading this forum. If they had they would have put Eaves in the old village stocks in the Kohl Center commons by now, all while being surrounded by 3 angry villagers with pitchforks shouting, "BURN HIM!!!!"
                  Wisconsin Hockey Recruiting spreadsheet (both Men's and Women's)

                  Comment


                  • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

                    Originally posted by gwhinwi View Post
                    I think it's pretty clear that they're not reading this forum. If they had they would have put Eaves in the old village stocks in the Kohl Center commons by now, all while being surrounded by 3 angry villagers with pitchforks shouting, "BURN HIM!!!!"
                    I will bring the vegetables for people to throw; lots of vegetables.
                    Sixty Minutes. No Alibis. No Regrets.

                    Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet
                    Well... Baggott does kind of suck.
                    Originally posted by UWisco
                    It's funny, there is actually a "team" performing worse than the hockey team at the KC this year. The ushers/security are completely worthless.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

                      Originally posted by KaMiGo View Post
                      I feel like we are setting ourselves up to be the Charlie Brown and Oz is Lucy holding the football. Screw us once, that's business and I'm fine with it; screw us twice, that's on us and we shouldn't have put ourselves in that situation.
                      Could he be a great hire this time around? Absolutely!
                      Could he be here for a year or two and then bolt again for a HC position? Absolutely!

                      I don't think that Oz taking a career advancing position elsewhere was him "screwing" us.

                      Anyone we hire right now could take another position elsewhere in a year or two. It's the nature of the business.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

                        Originally posted by Gandalf the Red View Post
                        I will bring the feces for people to throw; lots of feces.

                        fyp

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post

                          I don't think that Oz taking a career advancing position elsewhere was him "screwing" us.

                          Anyone we hire right now could take another position elsewhere in a year or two. It's the nature of the business.
                          So maybe the first time can be written off as "career advancement", but what would you call it when it happens the second time?

                          And sure, the nature of the business is that assistants develop and move on to new and better positions. But when you have someone who has already done that, why would you want to bring him back and let him do it again?

                          He's already shown that he will leave UW for another school, you don't think that a few good years would solidify his spot the radar for any open spots?

                          Comment


                          • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

                            Originally posted by KaMiGo View Post
                            So maybe the first time can be written off as "career advancement", but what would you call it when it happens the second time?

                            And sure, the nature of the business is that assistants develop and move on to new and better positions. But when you have someone who has already done that, why would you want to bring him back and let him do it again?

                            He's already shown that he will leave UW for another school, you don't think that a few good years would solidify his spot the radar for any open spots?
                            So you don't want them to hire one of the best possible options? Sure he might leave at some point. But any of the great top assistants are going to be flight risks. The AD put Eaves and the hockey program in this situation by not cleaning house. Eaves has to get top guys and they very well might leave after 3 or 4 years.

                            If we don't hire top end guys, we end up 2 more inexperienced guys and we can be 59 of 59 teams in the nation instead of 55.
                            Last edited by WiscTJK; 05-07-2015, 04:45 PM.
                            gwhinwi's: Wisconsin Badgers Recruiting Spreadsheet & Individual Face-Off Statistics

                            EODS: De-Commit / Non-Pro Early Departure List

                            Comment


                            • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

                              Originally posted by KaMiGo View Post
                              I'm usually in the minority in these things, and I find myself there again. I don't think that it would have been the right move to hire Oz back in 2013.

                              In an interesting twist, if you look back at the threads from 2013 all anyone had to say about Walsh were positive things:
                              Hopefully Walsh applies for the permanent coaching position. I can see no reason why I wouldn't want him to continue on. The D seemed to get better with him on the staff
                              I don't know Walsh personally, but everyone that I've talked to that he has coached absolutely raves about his ability to coach and teach players. Not a bad sign
                              I would be happy with Walsh
                              Walsh did a great job with the D last year
                              I was not a fan of the hiring of either Shuchuk or Walsh, based solely on the experience factor, and said so back then.
                              gwhinwi's: Wisconsin Badgers Recruiting Spreadsheet & Individual Face-Off Statistics

                              EODS: De-Commit / Non-Pro Early Departure List

                              Comment


                              • Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Shi

                                Originally posted by KaMiGo View Post
                                So maybe the first time can be written off as "career advancement", but what would you call it when it happens the second time?

                                And sure, the nature of the business is that assistants develop and move on to new and better positions. But when you have someone who has already done that, why would you want to bring him back and let him do it again?

                                He's already shown that he will leave UW for another school, you don't think that a few good years would solidify his spot the radar for any open spots?

                                If you don't want him hired for the flight possibility reason, fine by me - although I disagree.

                                Just saying that anytime an assistant - Oz or anyone else - leaves for a better opportunity, I can't hold it against them and wouldn't categorize it as him screwing us.

                                Comment

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