NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

[RedhawkBandMan]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

And I don't know that any other college team was able to lose to the U-18 team, either?!

Lake Superior State, Michigan, Bowling Green, Michigan State

[SCSU Beat Anyone]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

Defense has to step it up. Goalies are both dicey. They gave up the 4th goal 30 seconds after they tied it up and it was embarrassing how they let the Miami player cake walk to the net. Defensemen are still not putting bodies on guys.

Gravel and Daly had 3 of the 4 goals, offense needs to do something. Also that 2 on 1 in overtime that Tedesco shot it 10 feet over the net and they go down and win it. Solid shot brah! Gravel was the only one that did something last night and oh yeah, Faragher sucks.

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

Yeah, Miami's 36 PWR scares MSU at 37 and OSU at 22. Neither does their SOS or any NACHO SOS for that matter.

Hope your series goes 3 sweetheart.

Wisconsin and Ohio State are two teams whose PWR are buoyed by playing only home games against mostly dogcrap competition. OSU's non-con resume: swept by Miami in a home and home, split with BGSU in a home and home, swept Robert Morris in a home and home, split with Duluth at home, and swept Niagara, Canisius and Mercyhurst at home. Wow, how impressive. Played 11 of 14 games at home and when they played anybody of note the best they could get was a split. 6 wins against the teams in the bottom 20% of the RPI. Don't try to tell me OSU is the 22nd best team in the country. They aren't. Wisconsin's NC schedule is even more embarassing.

Meanwhile, CC went 0-9-1 but at least challenged themselves and played at Clarkson and Wisconsin, played UNH and Providence and one game each against Brown and Air Force. The worst team they played was 39th in RPI.

So that is why the NCHC teams have worse PWR than the B1G teams. The B1G schedules cupcakes at home and the NCHC teams at least make an effort to play road games and schedule decent teams in NC play.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

Wisconsin and Ohio State are two teams whose PWR are buoyed by playing only home games against mostly dogcrap competition. OSU's non-con resume: swept by Miami in a home and home, split with BGSU in a home and home, swept Robert Morris in a home and home, split with Duluth at home, and swept Niagara, Canisius and Mercyhurst at home. Wow, how impressive. Played 11 of 14 games at home and when they played anybody of note the best they could get was a split. 6 wins against the teams in the bottom 20% of the RPI. Don't try to tell me OSU is the 22nd best team in the country. They aren't. Wisconsin's NC schedule is even more embarassing.

Meanwhile, CC went 0-9-1 but at least challenged themselves and played at Clarkson and Wisconsin, played UNH and Providence and one game each against Brown and Air Force. The worst team they played was 39th in RPI.

So that is why the NCHC teams have worse PWR than the B1G teams. The B1G schedules cupcakes at home and the NCHC teams at least make an effort to play road games and schedule decent teams in NC play.

My Parise. Do you need a tissue?

[First Time, Long Time]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

Context. Do you think the current Miami team would beat the current UND team 6-2 again? Not only were the games months ago when the play of both teams was 180 degrees from now, but one series alone doesn't negate the PWR and SOS of the teams mentioned.

Don't take my comments the wrong way - I'm not ripping on SCSU, Miami or the NCHC just countering Dipsy's ignorance. I think SCSU and UND could be dangerous in the NCAAs and don't assume any postseason success for UM.

I think it is possible that Miami could beat UND 6-2 again.
Have you actually watched Miami play or are you just stat watching and deciding they aren't that good?
Miami is a case where a team is better than their record and if they beat us in this series, it would not surprise me if they won the whole tourney.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

Wisconsin and Ohio State are two teams whose PWR are buoyed by playing only home games against mostly dogcrap competition. OSU's non-con resume: swept by Miami in a home and home, split with BGSU in a home and home, swept Robert Morris in a home and home, split with Duluth at home, and swept Niagara, Canisius and Mercyhurst at home. Wow, how impressive. Played 11 of 14 games at home and when they played anybody of note the best they could get was a split. 6 wins against the teams in the bottom 20% of the RPI. Don't try to tell me OSU is the 22nd best team in the country. They aren't. Wisconsin's NC schedule is even more embarassing.

Meanwhile, CC went 0-9-1 but at least challenged themselves and played at Clarkson and Wisconsin, played UNH and Providence and one game each against Brown and Air Force. The worst team they played was 39th in RPI.

So that is why the NCHC teams have worse PWR than the B1G teams. The B1G schedules cupcakes at home and the NCHC teams at least make an effort to play road games and schedule decent teams in NC play.

Well, when a Big Ten team like OSU, MSU and PSU looks at the 5 opponents in its conf and knows that combined they have between 20-23 Natl Titles and that over 2/3rds of their conf games are going to be against UMn, UW & Michigan, all 3 ranked in the Top 15 going into this weekend, it is hard to blame them IF they choose to keep the teams in the ooc schedule on the lighter side of things.

In comparison, the 3rd place team in the 8 team NCHC has an overall .500 record and so 75% of the conference isn't going to be playing in the post season unless they win the Conf Tourney Title.

So over 2/3rds of the bottom 6 NCHC team's opponents are NOT in the top 15. They NEED to schedule tougher opponents in the ooc.

And having a good SOS HELPS your PWR rating, it doesn't hurt it. Playing the weak competition you say UW and OSU played hurt their PWR, it didn't help it. Or at least that is usually the case.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

I have seen all of the teams play. Glad the Gopher ****** brigade could come through our thread to troll. Wasn't expecting any less... Obsession.

Just so you know Tipsy, you are wrong if you think I am a Gopher fan obsessed with trolling a SCSU thread. My being here has very little to do with SCSU. I could care less about SCSU. I grew up close to St Cloud, many of my friends went there for college, I play Poker there or near there enough to claim to have been in St Cloud at least once a year for 35 of the 46 years I've been on this planet, and just never have grown to give one rats ash about SCSU, except when not playing the Gophers I always cheer for other Minnesota based sports teams to beat non-Mn based sports teams. So in a sense, I am sort of a SCSU fan, unlike most Gopher fans.

BUT...

I know someone who is an MU alum, and because of him I follow MU Hockey, and you just happened to be MU's opponent this weekend, and being SCSU is a former WCHA team, and shared the Conf Title with my Gophers last year, and apparently are this years NCHC Regular Season Conf Champs? Right? And are a Mn based team playing a non-Mn based team, I simply expected you guys to represent the old WCHA and the state of Mn better, and pummel the Redhawks, a team that has lost 12 of its last 15 games its played outside of games vs SCSU.


But go ahead and consider me a ****** if that makes you feel better about yourself, lol.

[Slap Shot]

Wisconsin and Ohio State are two teams whose PWR are buoyed by playing only home games against mostly dogcrap competition. OSU's non-con resume: swept by Miami in a home and home, split with BGSU in a home and home, swept Robert Morris in a home and home, split with Duluth at home, and swept Niagara, Canisius and Mercyhurst at home. Wow, how impressive. Played 11 of 14 games at home and when they played anybody of note the best they could get was a split. 6 wins against the teams in the bottom 20% of the RPI. Don't try to tell me OSU is the 22nd best team in the country. They aren't. Wisconsin's NC schedule is even more embarassing.

Meanwhile, CC went 0-9-1 but at least challenged themselves and played at Clarkson and Wisconsin, played UNH and Providence and one game each against Brown and Air Force. The worst team they played was 39th in RPI.

So that is why the NCHC teams have worse PWR than the B1G teams. The B1G schedules cupcakes at home and the NCHC teams at least make an effort to play road games and schedule decent teams in NC play.

Did not read.

FTLT - the only one here dismissing other programs is Tipsy. PWR and SOS don't exist in a vacuum but he can't help himself.

Once again I'm not counting UND nor SCSU out of anything in the NCAAs.

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

My Parise. Do you need a tissue?

No, do you need help forming a rebuttal, or something else resembling a worthwhile post?

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

Well, when a Big Ten team like OSU, MSU and PSU looks at the 5 opponents in its conf and knows that combined they have between 20-23 Natl Titles and that over 2/3rds of their conf games are going to be against UMn, UW & Michigan, all 3 ranked in the Top 15 going into this weekend, it is hard to blame them IF they choose to keep the teams in the ooc schedule on the lighter side of things.

In comparison, the 3rd place team in the 8 team NCHC has an overall .500 record and so 75% of the conference isn't going to be playing in the post season unless they win the Conf Tourney Title.

So over 2/3rds of the bottom 6 NCHC team's opponents are NOT in the top 15. They NEED to schedule tougher opponents in the ooc.

And having a good SOS HELPS your PWR rating, it doesn't hurt it. Playing the weak competition you say UW and OSU played hurt their PWR, it didn't help it. Or at least that is usually the case.

It is all based on winning percentages. So winning is more important than who you are playing. SOS only helps when comparing teams with equal winning percentages. Ask Penn State, who has the 3rd ranked SOS, how much that is helping them when they are 6th worst in the country in RPI.

Your argument makes zero sense. NCHC teams played tougher NC schedules and are lower in the PWR than B1G teams, so the solution is for the NCHC to schedule tougher NC teams? They already are and it didn't do anything for them.

The RPI is one of the worst, if not THE worst, rating system ever conceived, and it is THE main, or only actually when you really look at it, determining factor considered to determine the NCAA field and seedings, etc..

Man, for someone who thinks the RPI/PWR is garbage, you sure like to lean on it to back up your arguments.

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

Don't take my comments the wrong way - I'm not ripping on SCSU, Miami or the NCHC just countering Dipsy's ignorance.

Did not read.

You can't make it up.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

It is all based on winning percentages. So winning is more important than who you are playing. SOS only helps when comparing teams with equal winning percentages. Ask Penn State, who has the 3rd ranked SOS, how much that is helping them when they are 6th worst in the country in RPI.

You don't have a clue, do you? Of course you have to win some of the games, ESPECIALLY vs the weaker opponents. But its a proven fact that losing to the #1 team in the ratings is better for your own personal ratings, than beating the worst rated team is.

What REALLY kills a team's rating, is losing to a low rated team, that REALLY hurts.

What REALLY helps, is beating a highly rated team.



The RPI is a formula, you should maybe go google it or look it up, Wikipedia probably has a nice write up about it that should help you understand how it works.


And if you say, "oh, but the PWR is not the RPI", I will respond and say, compare the two, see how almost exactly they match up, from top to bottom. And then tell me that the PWR isn't basically the same thing as the RPI. And go figure, that's probably because the PWR uses the RPI as its base of measurement. Occasionally the 28th rated team in the RPI will be found to be rated 27th in the PWR, but that's about the extent of the difference, and you will probably only find 2, maybe 3 instances of a 1 place difference when comparing the 2, this late in the season at least.

[First Time, Long Time]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

Did not read.

FTLT - the only one here dismissing other programs is Tipsy. PWR and SOS don't exist in a vacuum but he can't help himself.

Once again I'm not counting UND nor SCSU out of anything in the NCAAs.

He's dismissing the bottom half of the B1G, which I'd do too, Miami is better than all 3 of them.
Don't care what your opinion is about our NCAA chances, answer the question.
Have you watched Miami play or are you looking at standings and numbers to come to your conclusions?

[hockeykrazy]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

Just so you know Tipsy, you are wrong if you think I am a Gopher fan obsessed with trolling a SCSU thread. My being here has very little to do with SCSU. I could care less about SCSU. I grew up close to St Cloud, many of my friends went there for college, I play Poker there or near there enough to claim to have been in St Cloud at least once a year for 35 of the 46 years I've been on this planet, and just never have grown to give one rats ash about SCSU, except when not playing the Gophers I always cheer for other Minnesota based sports teams to beat non-Mn based sports teams. So in a sense, I am sort of a SCSU fan, unlike most Gopher fans.

BUT...

I know someone who is an MU alum, and because of him I follow MU Hockey, and you just happened to be MU's opponent this weekend, and being SCSU is a former WCHA team, and shared the Conf Title with my Gophers last year, and apparently are this years NCHC Regular Season Conf Champs? Right? And are a Mn based team playing a non-Mn based team, I simply expected you guys to represent the old WCHA and the state of Mn better, and pummel the Redhawks, a team that has lost 12 of its last 15 games its played outside of games vs SCSU.


But go ahead and consider me a ****** if that makes you feel better about yourself, lol.

You might want to follow the Redhawks a little more closely. Coleman was out with an injury in the first game against Denver and now he is back. He's scored 8 goals in the last 7 games. He was out 11 games. His first game back was the upset over SCSU on that Friday, he had 2 goals. They are quite a different team than the PWR shows right now with him back in the lineup.

It's kind of like Wisconsin when Kerdiles is out. Or any team that loses one of it's top three players. Plus SCSU has arguably their best Defenseman out - Prochno. I would definitely prefer Prochno in our lineup vs our #6 or 7 who is playing now.

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: NCHC First Round: Miami University at St. Cloud State

You don't have a clue, do you? Of course you have to win some of the games, ESPECIALLY vs the weaker opponents. But its a proven fact that losing to the #1 team in the ratings is better for your own personal ratings, than beating the worst rated team is.

What REALLY kills a team's rating, is losing to a low rated team, that REALLY hurts.

What REALLY helps, is beating a highly rated team.



The RPI is a formula, you should maybe go google it or look it up, Wikipedia probably has a nice write up about it that should help you understand how it works.


And if you say, "oh, but the PWR is not the RPI", I will respond and say, compare the two, see how almost exactly they match up, from top to bottom. And then tell me that the PWR isn't basically the same thing as the RPI. And go figure, that's probably because the PWR uses the RPI as its base of measurement. Occasionally the 28th rated team in the RPI will be found to be rated 27th in the PWR, but that's about the extent of the difference, and you will probably only find 2, maybe 3 instances of a 1 place difference when comparing the 2, this late in the season at least.

If only there was an example....

Oh! How about last night? Michigan played the #1 team in the ratings, and lost. Moved from 14th to 16th in the PWR. Mankato beat the #40 team in the ratings and moved from 17 or 18 to 12th, AHEAD OF MICHIGAN. I know the RPI formula, here it is

Factors involved are 1) the team's winning percentage; 2) the average winning percentage of the team's opponents; 3) the average winning percentage of the team's opponents' opponents. These factors are multiplied by 25%, 21%, and 54% respectively and the contribution of each individual game is weighted by a factor of 1.2 for a road win or home loss and 0.8 for a home win or road loss. In addition, a quality wins bonus based on wins against the top 20 teams is added to a team's RPI.

54% of the formula is the average winning percentage of the team's opponents' opponents. The LEAST important factor is opponents winning percentage. So since the B1G mopped up in NC play, it raises the RPI of all the teams because most of their opponents' opponents are each other.

It is hilarious how you are explaining to me the intricacies of the RPI when you crapped all over it in the other thread. Really fine work.