Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

[bothman]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Sorry, I don't look at Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, BC, Denver, Michigan, BU, UNH, Maine, and several other traditional "big schools" being sucessful as bad for college hockey or mutually exculusive of the "lesser hockey programs" being able to also have success. The big boys being good pays the bills. Pretty sure Union winning is a bit more meaningful going through BC in the semi and Minny in the final. Further, schools like Union, Quinnipiac, UMass, Ferris State, Yale, ect who have had some tourney success are not generally doing their thing with recruits that are on the big boys radar.

Moves of this nature will push college hockey to be more like women's basketball where you can generally pencil in the final 4 any given year. And with all due respect, winning a national championship is a great accomplishemnt regardless of who you go through to get there.

You can't take a historical view of this in saying that Yale's roster consisted of players that fell under the radar. Would Agostino, etc been on Yale's roster if the verbal agreement was not honored? None of us have the answer to that one, but what I do know is that Yale doesn't win without him.

I'm very interested in how this plays out over the next few years:
1) Obviously coaches/fans of the big schools love not obliging to verbals because now they can have their cake and eat it too. They can go after the 1-2 & Dones and not have to worry about roster integrity when surprises happen.
2) Be interesting to see if the coaching fraternity weakens as a result of this cherry picking and whether MJ can exploit a divided front

[NCAA watcher]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that College was something players chose based upon what would lead to their greatest personal and professional growth. I'm glad to find out that the goal is to promote parity among colleges. I assume the best way to address this is simply to draft and allocate the players to the colleges.

[Hammy]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

I'll never understand the logic of people that pine to keep the gentleman's agreement and they use the logic that somehow it is better. But it isn't "better" for all of them. More importantly, it also isn't "better" for the recruits themselves because they are kept in the dark by this agreement with regard to all of their potential opportunities. Without the agreement, they can still verbal and feel as secure as they do now... but if something more attractive should come along, they are no longer kept in the dark about it.

The coaches are all trying to maximize their individual situations. Whether small program or big program. I get that. But if it isn't an NCAA rule for all sports that a verbal commit is "hands off", I don't think coaches at big programs should shoot their program in the foot and be a part of something that can actually hinder their fortunes.

[bothman]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that College was something players chose based upon what would lead to their greatest personal and professional growth. I'm glad to find out that the goal is to promote parity among colleges. I assume the best way to address this is simply to draft and allocate the players to the colleges.

So what happens to the "lesser" players who find themselves now displaced by the "elite" athletes who change their minds?

[NCAA watcher]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

The same thing that happens now -- they get deferred and can either "de-commit" and go elsewhere, or get strung along til they age out of juniors.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

And they end up back in their hometowns playing in men's groups like mine.

The fate of most of these kids which is why I laugh at the parents who still have their decent player kid chasing the dream.

[bothman]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

The same thing that happens now -- they get deferred and can either "de-commit" and go elsewhere, or get strung along til they age out of juniors.

Yes, but it will happen a lot more now then it did in the past. The verbals created friction or at least the perception of it.

Listen, I'm a free market guy. But let's play this out. Let's take UNH or Wisconsin's roster. How many of those guys could get into Harvard & Yale? So if Harvard & Yale wantdd to poach, what is their addressable market for athletes that could clear the admissions hurrdle? Meanwhile, everyone on Harvard or Yale's roster would be accepted at UNH & Wisconsin. So anyone who thinks this decision is an even playing field is delusional.

[Bonin21]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Getting into Harvard to play hockey is not the same as getting into Harvard. College hockey players generally come from families with money. Families with money generally have access to good schools when the kids are growing up. I doubt you need more than a 26 or so on the ACT to get into Harvard for hockey, unless there's documentation of that out there somewhere.

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

So what happens to the "lesser" players who find themselves now displaced by the "elite" athletes who change their minds?

Maybe the school that the "elite" guy changed their mind from will need a guy?

Seriously...we want to continue some "gentleman's" proposition that only invites guys that want to wheel and deal behind the scenes an advantage, keeps choices limited for the student athlete's (some of them may suprise and prefer to be the man at a small school then one of the guys in a big school....but it should be their choice if they have a viable option), because they favor the little school?...ummm...pretty sure that concept is of little interest to anyone that frequents this thread. Maybe the "small guy" threads will have more traction with keeping the status quo. If I'm the coach of a "small guy" school that just had a nice run....I might even want the option of trying to convince a kid committed to a bigger school I just bounced out of the tourney that they may have more success at my small school.

[bothman]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Getting into Harvard to play hockey is not the same as getting into Harvard. College hockey players generally come from families with money. Families with money generally have access to good schools when the kids are growing up. I doubt you need more than a 26 or so on the ACT to get into Harvard for hockey, unless there's documentation of that out there somewhere.

You have to be within one standard deviation of the general student body academic index (a combination of SAT, GPA/Class Rank, and SAT II scores). I'd say that is a high bar, no? And if you don't believe me, the proof is in the pudding: Harvard just lost its 2 best recruits for next year (Adam Plant going to Denver now and I bet Fortunato ends up at BC) because they couldn't get through admissions.

I'll bugger off since I know this is a Wisconsin thread, but overall, I think this rule change needs a more balanced perspective.

[NCAA watcher]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

The logical answer to this great uncertainty is that used in society as a whole -- a binding agreement. However the NCAA precludes these in order to protect themselves from any commitments. The thing they try to offer up the kids as a "commitment" is limited and unenforceable in any sense.

Pardon me for not feeling bad for the group that refuses to make a binding agreement when that group complains because maybe the other party now has some options.

I love the twitter #gentleman's agreement statements. How come coaches can agree amongst themselves to honor something, but the "honorable gentleman's agreement" doesn't extend to the players? Some teams abuse it, and even the most scrupulous coach who does not make this a practice has not been "honorable" in one or two cases.

[Bonin21]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

You have to be within one standard deviation of the general student body academic index (a combination of SAT, GPA/Class Rank, and SAT II scores).

The middle 50% got 32-35 on their ACT. That means the middle 68% is probably close to that. 30 or over is definitely going to keep some kids out.

[HCSmooth]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Getting into Harvard to play hockey is not the same as getting into Harvard. College hockey players generally come from families with money. Families with money generally have access to good schools when the kids are growing up. I doubt you need more than a 26 or so on the ACT to get into Harvard for hockey, unless there's documentation of that out there somewhere.

Students from wealthy families also are likely to be better alumni, making larger contributions to the school post-graduation. Schools are businesses too.

As to the gentlemen's agreement, it is just kind of dumb. There may end up being kids who peak early and don't develop into the players schools thought they'd be when they were offered at 14. But, tough. Life is cruel sometimes, and if you're not good enough to play at a B1G school, then you shouldn't be there to play. Scholarships based on a talent, be it music, athletics, superior academic performance, etc. are to be earned and, hopefully, deserved.

[Hammy]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

I think this rule change needs a more balanced perspective.

It's not a rule. That's the point.

Why should any coach that feels it is a negative to their situation feel obligated to live by it when it isn't even an NCAA rule in the first place? If I were a coach at a big program, I certainly wouldn't allow smaller schools to shackle me to some something that was a negative to my chances. I have to look out for my program... not worry about stepping on some toes once in a while.

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

If I'm the coach of a "small guy" school that just had a nice run....I might even want the option of trying to convince a kid committed to a bigger school I just bounced out of the tourney that they may have more success at my small school.

Great point, this can be a 2 way street, though the lane is wider for the big school.