2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

[Ralph Baer]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

As fans, we only have videos/pictures to interpret the situation and there are obviously going to be conflicting reports. As previously stated, RPI is 3rd in nation vs. Union 33rd in the nation for penalty minutes, which in my opinion, speaks volumes about which coach runs a disciplined program. To answer your question, yes, I earned my master's degree from Union last year.

As to penalty minutes, the mean (average) is a rather poor measure because it is overly influenced by misconducts. In my opinion as a mathematician who spent a large part of his working life doing statistical analyses, it makes more sense here to consider median values of penalty minutes per game for each team. See the discussion in the RPI thread culminated by lugnut's excellent, revealing graph in post number 401. Yes, Union's median is less than RPI's, but neither is out of line with the rest of the league. Both schools' means, as is clear from the graph, are highly influenced by outliers. Yes, RPI's outliers are worse than Union's, but Union's are the second worst in the league.

[printersdevil]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

As to penalty minutes, the mean (average) is a rather poor measure because it is overly influenced by misconducts. In my opinion as a mathematician who spent a large part of his working life doing statistical analyses, it makes more sense here to consider median values of penalty minutes per game for each team. See the discussion in the RPI thread culminated by lugnut's excellent, revealing graph in post number 401. Yes, Union's median is less than RPI's, but neither is out of line with the rest of the league. Both schools' means, as is clear from the graph, are highly influenced by outliers. Yes, RPI's outliers are worse than Union's, but Union's are the second worst in the league.

Does anyone on this thread really care about rehashing this story??? Please if you Engineer fans get your jollies over discussing statistical analysis fine but do it on your own thread, you are boring us to tears. There must be more stimulating hockey dialogue out there somewhere.......

[UnionFan4Life]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

UnionFan4Life:

You have been a very welcomed addition to this thread ever since the season began and we were all pulling out our hair after those first few games. I hope you continue to contribute your thoughts going forward.

Thank you Dutchman, you are genuinely a kind and insightful member here and I always enjoy reading your posts, scouting reports on opposing teams, etc.

As to penalty minutes, the mean (average) is a rather poor measure because it is overly influenced by misconducts. In my opinion as a mathematician who spent a large part of his working life doing statistical analyses, it makes more sense here to consider median values of penalty minutes per game for each team. See the discussion in the RPI thread culminated by lugnut's excellent, revealing graph in post number 401. Yes, Union's median is less than RPI's, but neither is out of line with the rest of the league. Both schools' means, as is clear from the graph, are highly influenced by outliers. Yes, RPI's outliers are worse than Union's, but Union's are the second worst in the league.

While you guys are analyzing penalty minutes, we are analyzing pairwise rankings.

[Wholin1]

Does anyone on this thread really care about rehashing this story??? Please if you Engineer fans get your jollies over discussing statistical analysis fine but do it on your own thread, you are boring us to tears. There must be more stimulating hockey dialogue out there somewhere.......

Good point and an apt commentary on the state of RPI hockey.

[uniontrack]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

I appreciate all of the good commentary I have read on here recently, even the unique "drivel" from our colleagues over in Troy...I have been busy with work and some hospitalizations in my family, so I have been forced to lurk recently...

I am looking forward to the last two weeks of the season to see how well the team can finish this crazy, thrill-ride season...

Like I have said previously, even with suspensions and injuries, the organizational model that Leaman started and Bennett has continued is one of depth and interchangeable parts. When one player, or coach, can't be available, the next in line has stepped up and answered the call. Both the 3-1 record during the 4 game suspension of RB and this most recent weekend of snatching 3 points from C & C is ample proof of the success of this model...

Most of the vitriol thrown around here recently is a normal part of the Union-RPI feuding...I expect over the top blanket statements and rose-colored glasses-style analysis from both sides...However, I must take exception with the characterization of Ken Schott being a Union homer. Ken spends a great deal of his working time highlighting the state of the team over at RPI. If you look at his tweets and his blogs, he rarely ignores RPI and gives props when they are due. He was very critical of the recent fracas with regards to the actions of RB and Bodie...Just because the RPI folks didn't get their pound of flesh doesn't negate his fair analysis of the incident.

Ken is a much better journalistic steward of ECAC Hockey overall and RPI in specific than Ed Weaver at the Record could ever dream of being with regards to covering Union...

At the very least, Ken at least PROOFREADS everything he writes before it gets published...Ed has cornered the market on run-on sentences, spelling errors and outright factual inconsistencies...

I wish both teams good luck and fewer injuries to close out the season and into the playoffs...

[Ralph Baer]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

I appreciate all of the good commentary I have read on here recently, even the unique "drivel" from our colleagues over in Troy...I have been busy with work and some hospitalizations in my family, so I have been forced to lurk recently...

I am looking forward to the last two weeks of the season to see how well the team can finish this crazy, thrill-ride season...

Like I have said previously, even with suspensions and injuries, the organizational model that Leaman started and Bennett has continued is one of depth and interchangeable parts. When one player, or coach, can't be available, the next in line has stepped up and answered the call. Both the 3-1 record during the 4 game suspension of RB and this most recent weekend of snatching 3 points from C & C is ample proof of the success of this model...

Most of the vitriol thrown around here recently is a normal part of the Union-RPI feuding...I expect over the top blanket statements and rose-colored glasses-style analysis from both sides...However, I must take exception with the characterization of Ken Schott being a Union homer. Ken spends a great deal of his working time highlighting the state of the team over at RPI. If you look at his tweets and his blogs, he rarely ignores RPI and gives props when they are due. He was very critical of the recent fracas with regards to the actions of RB and Bodie...Just because the RPI folks didn't get their pound of flesh doesn't negate his fair analysis of the incident.

Ken is a much better journalistic steward of ECAC Hockey overall and RPI in specific than Ed Weaver at the Record could ever dream of being with regards to covering Union...

At the very least, Ken at least PROOFREADS everything he writes before it gets published...Ed has cornered the market on run-on sentences, spelling errors and outright factual inconsistencies...

I wish both teams good luck and fewer injuries to close out the season and into the playoffs...

I agree that Ken handled the incidents which occurred in the last RPI-Union game in an unbiased, professional manner. He is, however, a homer when it comes to the Flyers and Phillies.

Also, without doubt the Gazette is a better newspaper than the Record. I don't think that any RPI fans have ever defended the editing or lack thereof in the latter newspaper. How much of this is Weaver's fault and how much is the paper's itself I do not know. I am thankful though that the Record continues to publish.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

While you guys are analyzing penalty minutes, we are analyzing pairwise rankings.

I do realize that you have a smiley there, but I think that it was the Union fandom who brought up the comparison of penalty minutes between the two schools' teams.

As to analyzing pairwise rankings and how Union's seeding is affected by it, I have seen precious little here. Most comments show little understanding of them.

[aweise]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Have there been any updates on the injuries to Carr, Novak, and/or Ikkala?

[ibanezist00]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

I agree that Ken handled the incidents which occurred in the last RPI-Union game in an unbiased, professional manner. He is, however, a homer when it comes to the Flyers and Phillies.

Also, without doubt the Gazette is a better newspaper than the Record. I don't think that any RPI fans have ever defended the editing or lack thereof in the latter newspaper. How much of this is Weaver's fault and how much is the paper's itself I do not know. I am thankful though that the Record continues to publish.

Maybe "homer" was the wrong choice of word, but my point is that it is clear where Ken's loyalties lie, and that is fine by me since he doesn't try to keep it secret

And yes, like Ralph said, I can't think of anyone who considers the Record to be a top-notch quality paper, though as a native Schenectadian I'm not going to exactly defend the Gazette either. The TU is a step above both but still not great.

[UnionFan4Life]

I do realize that you have a smiley there, but I think that it was the Union fandom who brought up the comparison of penalty minutes between the two schools' teams.

As to analyzing pairwise rankings and how Union's seeding is affected by it, I have seen precious little here. Most comments show little understanding of them.

All I'm saying is you guys didn't have to run a regression analysis to figure out players such as Curadi, Leboeuf, Haggerty, and Zalewaki are the root cause of the outliers and correlated with the fact that RPI is #3 in the nation for penalty minutes, you could've just asked me.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

All I'm saying is you guys didn't have to run a regression analysis to figure out players such as Curadi, Leboeuf, Haggerty, and Zalewaki are the root cause of the outliers and correlated with the fact that RPI is #3 in the nation for penalty minutes, you could've just asked me.

Let's try another tact, not that I expect it to work. Rick Bennett has been Union's Head Coach for less than three years. In that time period he has been suspended for four games that I know of, an average of more than one game per year. Seth Appert has been RPI's Head Coach for a bit less than eight years. He has been suspended for an average of significantly less than one game per year. Thus Appert is the less penalized coach.

Oh, you want me to count Bennett's four game suspension as just one incident! You can't have your cake and eat it.


Regression analysis? Where has anyone fit a curve relating two variables?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

All I'm saying is you guys didn't have to run a regression analysis to figure out players such as Curadi, Leboeuf, Haggerty, and Zalewaki are the root cause of the outliers and correlated with the fact that RPI is #3 in the nation for penalty minutes, you could've just asked me.

How about we talk about Charlie Vasaturo, who has as many PIM as the top of the four players you mentioned? And BTW, of the four, Curadi has the least.

[UnionFan4Life]

How about we talk about Charlie Vasaturo, who has as many PIM as the top of the four players you mentioned? And BTW, of the four, Curadi has the least.

That's because Curadi is a saint.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

That's because Curadi is a saint.

No, he doesn't play for SLU. He was a Fighting Saint when he was in Dubuque.

[UnionHockeyManiac]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat? (Part II)

Do the Union fans post this much in the RPI thread? Why are their fans obsessed with us? #RedCloud