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J.D.
01-31-2014, 11:23 PM
it took the guy in the big ten studio, rick pizzo i believe, to explain what anastos was arguing. that if the goalie knocks the net off before the opposing player even finishes his attempt, that player should be given another chance. not sure how he wasn't awarded one.

Tipsy McStagger
01-31-2014, 11:27 PM
it took the guy in the big ten studio, rick pizzo i believe, to explain what anastos was arguing. that if the goalie knocks the net off before the opposing player even finishes his attempt, that player should be given another chance. not sure how he wasn't awarded one.
That is the most ridiculous part of it. Basically all a goalie has to do is knock the net off every time.

HarleyMC
02-01-2014, 12:05 AM
It was a déjà vu experience tonight for both teams as MSU fought hard on the walls and took lots of stingers for another tie and shootout win to match the first game of the series result in December at the Munn. Credit Sparty with some textbook forechecking and packing bodies around Hilde to block a total of 25 shots, while outshooting the Gophers 30-28. Atypical for the Gophers this season, they have now been outshot in 3 straight games. The Gophers never played with the lead tonight, committed a few turnovers and D lapses in the opening frame and had to battle back for a 2-2 tie against a fired up MSU squad that played with raging determination all game. As expected Jake Hildebrand and Adam Wilcox both showcased their talent in nets tonight in a goalie duel, each making key saves at the right time to give their teams a chance to win. As far as the shootout is concerned, the Gophers are now 1/4...but the good news for the 3-4 Gopher fans who just adore shootouts is they're getting lots of practice guys!!:p:D

Freshman Hudson Fasching has been a key motivator on the PP lately, planting his big frame in front of the paint again tonight to bag his 9th goal and 3rd PPG of season for the Gophers. The Gopher PP seems to have found their mojo at just the right time, scoring 6 PPGs out of their last 10 PP attempts. I thought freshman Justin Kloos had an excellent game and compete level tonight, and tied the game with his uniquely patented “deflection with a kicking style” goal off his skate.:D Can’t say enough about the extraordinary play from the Gopher freshmen this season, who are currently tied with BC with 36 goals for the most productive freshman class in the nation. Credit the 5 D for the Gophers, who seemed to settle down as the game wore on and did a decent job of fighting off a tenacious MSU forecheck all game to protect Wilcox in front. Overall, a hard fought game by MSU in their first game on the big sheet this season. BUT, tomorrow night I would expect the Gophers to attack Sparty with a much better effort for the FULL 60 minutes. Go Gophers! RAH! :)

HarleyMC
02-01-2014, 12:22 AM
Gopher HIGHLIGHTS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zLn8Z_cwbY)

HarleyMC
02-01-2014, 12:44 AM
it took the guy in the big ten studio, rick pizzo i believe, to explain what anastos was arguing. that if the goalie knocks the net off before the opposing player even finishes his attempt, that player should be given another chance. not sure how he wasn't awarded one.

Two separate rules can potentially be taken into account with Wilcox dislodging the net in the shootout attempt by Joe Cox (Cox on Wilcox ;)). The correct application of the rule would depend on the deliberation of the goalie's actions and whether the puck entered the net before the goal was dislodged.

If the goal post is deliberately displaced by a goalie, another attempt should be awarded. The referees determined that the save attempt by Wilcox knocked the goal off it's moorings as a normal response and reaction to defend against the MSU player's movement to attack the net. In this case, it's impossible for the referee to determine that Wilcox "deliberately" displaced the goal post from the moorings. The flexible rubber pegs are designed to break away for player safety reasons and in this case, it was determined that the net was displaced through "accidental" contact by Wilcox and therefore another chance at the SO attempt was not awarded.

For a goal to be awarded, the puck must have been shot (or the player in the act of shooting) at the goal prior to the goal post being dislodged and it must be clearly determined that the puck would have entered the net between the normal position of the goal posts. The replay clearly showed the net was dislodged "accidentally" before the puck entered the net, so no goal.

GopherFan89
02-01-2014, 12:56 AM
Well...the unbeaten streak continues I guess!

HarleyMC
02-01-2014, 12:58 AM
Well...the unbeaten streak continues I guess!

Good guess.:p

Slap Shot
02-01-2014, 06:58 AM
I thought for the Gophers the first pass was about as bad last night as I've seen in recent memory. Were I to watch the game again it would be interesting to count how many times that first pass was off, poorly chosen and/or the puck was lost by doing something stupid with it and turning it over due to the MSU forecheck. It wasn't much better in the offensive zone and was evidenced by how many times the Giphers had numbers only to find the puck promptly leaving their zone mere seconds later.

The season isn't over, but I do hope to see fewer and fewer lethargic efforts going toward the playoffs.

When it happened live I mmediately thought the Cox SO goal should either stand or they give him a redo. I haven't seen the NCAA rule, but from an assist at GPL it would have been a goal in the NHL:


25.4 Infractions – During the Course of a Penalty Shot - A goal will be awarded when a goalkeeper attempts to stop a penalty shot by throwing his stick or any other object at the player taking the shot or by dislodging the goal (either deliberately or accidentally) (see Rule 63.6).

Slap Shot
02-01-2014, 07:22 AM
Finally got around to digging through the NCAA book. Rule 25.4 could be loosely interpreted to allow for a redo:


25.4 Violations During the Shot - If any player of the opposing team interferes with or distracts the player taking a penalty shot and thereby causes the shot to fail, a second attempt shall be permitted and the referee shall impose a misconduct penalty on the offending player.

Or more specifically:


26.2 Net Dislodgement - In the event that the goal post is displaced, either deliberately or accidentally, by a defending player, prior to the puck crossing the goal line between the normal position of the goalposts, the Referee may award a goal.
In order to award a goal in this situation, the goal post must have been displaced by the actions of a defending player, the puck must have been shot (or the player must be in position to shoot) at the goal prior to the goal post being displaced, and it must be determined that the puck would have entered the net between the normal position of the goal posts.

If neither of those rules suffice to address what happened and as I believe nothing more specific exists, it will be changed a la the NHL rule I imagine as early as next season.

J.D.
02-01-2014, 07:30 AM
harley, the spartan hadn't even finished his attempt before the net was off. he was still in the process. i didn't say it was intentional, i'm saying if the goal comes off as a result of the goalie's actions before the opponent even finishes the attempt (deliberate ir accidental), it doesn't make any sense to not at least give the guy another opportunity.

Greyeagle
02-01-2014, 08:46 AM
I thought for the Gophers the first pass was about as bad last night as I've seen in recent memory. Were I to watch the game again it would be interesting to count how many times that first pass was off, poorly chosen and/or the puck was lost by doing something stupid with it and turning it over due to the MSU forecheck. It wasn't much better in the offensive zone and was evidenced by how many times the Giphers had numbers only to find the puck promptly leaving their zone mere seconds later.

The puck was bouncing funny last night and it always seems when that happens MN tries even harder to make passes that don't/won't work.


When it happened live I mmediately thought the Cox SO goal should either stand or they give him a redo. I haven't seen the NCAA rule, but from an assist at GPL it would have been a goal in the NHL:

For me it strangely satisfying watching a something as stupid as a shootout being turned into even a bigger joke. :)

Spartanforlife4
02-01-2014, 09:35 AM
Well, picking up two points is nice, but we got screwed out of a goal last week in a game that ended 2-1, and then I thought your guy's second goal was kicked in too. Then don't even get me started on the penalty shot. But oh well, two ties against the #1 team on the year is nice. A win would provide a bigger boost though. I'm going to expect a game tonight much like the second one of the series earlier in the year. It'll be close in score but not very competitive on the ice.

Steve_MN
02-01-2014, 09:46 AM
Deflected with a skate does not equal kicked.

On the radio broadcast last night, they were saying how they talked to Greg Shepard (supervisor of officials for the WCHA) last year or so, and Greg had said "think soccer" when the topic of kicking vs re-directing. There's a reason they use the term "distinct kicking motion"

Having said that, the Spartans definitely have something going that the Gophers are having problems with. I assume it's the amount of blocked shots. Credit to Sparty for figuring out how to keep MN off the scoreboard.

5mn_Major
02-01-2014, 09:51 AM
Well, picking up two points is nice, but we got screwed out of a goal last week in a game that ended 2-1, and then I thought your guy's second goal was kicked in too. Then don't even get me started on the penalty shot. But oh well, two ties against the #1 team on the year is nice. A win would provide a bigger boost though. I'm going to expect a game tonight much like the second one of the series earlier in the year. It'll be close in score but not very competitive on the ice.

See I don't know. I've always heard that a goal will be disallowed if its 'kicked in'. Which it was not. It looked in all likelihood that he turned his skate with an attempt to redirect the puck...and if that's what it takes, then it could be called a goal. But even then, he ultimately turned to face the goalie...and who's to say that Kloos changing the direction of his skate wasn't the start of a natural turn. I saw no kicking motion though and I'm guessing the refs didn't either.

state of hockey
02-01-2014, 10:23 AM
Why do people have such a hard time with this rule? You can purposefully change the angle of your skate to deflect the puck in. It is completely legal. You can frickin do it with your HANDS if you chose to do so.

Wisko McBadgerton
02-01-2014, 10:38 AM
See I don't know. I've always heard that a goal will be disallowed if its 'kicked in'. Which it was not. It looked in all likelihood that he turned his skate with an attempt to redirect the puck...and if that's what it takes, then it could be called a goal. But even then, he ultimately turned to face the goalie...and who's to say that Kloos changing the direction of his skate wasn't the start of a natural turn. I saw no kicking motion though and I'm guessing the refs didn't either.

I think, given his odd skate angle, Kloos is most definitely trying to deflect it in. (Which he should be trying to do.) And I'd even say he kicked it in. Following Shepard's soccer analogy, it's just like a pass deflected in. A guy doesn't need to have a "kicking motion" to kick in a ball passed in front of the net as the ball's own momentum carries it.

Except that the way the rule reads, I don't think you can disallow it. About the only time a goal seems to get disallowed is when it's loose in front and a guy with his stick tied up takes a swing with his skate and definitively 'kicks' it in. Even though the BTN guys were saying it should be disallowed I would have been shocked to see it. Given the way the rule reads, it should have been good.

MSU probably deserved the extra point anyway. While there were close chances both ways, (pipes; puck loose in the crease behind Wilcox) I felt they had the better of play on the night. Seems to me karma was served by the shootout win.

Spartanforlife4
02-01-2014, 10:40 AM
I know the rule. It looked like a kicking motion to me, but you all might be right in that it was just him redirecting while moving forward.

Koho
02-01-2014, 10:46 AM
I think, given his odd skate angle, Kloos is most definitely trying to deflect it in. (Which he should be trying to do.) And I'd even say he kicked it in. Following Shepard's soccer analogy, it's just like a pass deflected in. A guy doesn't need to have a "kicking motion" to kick in a ball passed in front of the net as the ball's own momentum carries it.

Except that the way the rule reads, I don't think you can disallow it. About the only time a goal seems to get disallowed is when it's loose in front and a guy with his stick tied up takes a swing with his skate and definitively 'kicks' it in. Even though the BTN guys were saying it should be disallowed I would have been shocked to see it. Given the way the rule reads, it should have been good.

MSU probably deserved the extra point anyway. While there were close chances both ways, (pipes; puck loose in the crease behind Wilcox) I felt they had the better of play on the night. Seems to me karma was served by the shootout win.

Used to be just changing your skate to deflect was no goal, but that changed in recent years to be like you said, an obvious kick. And he was clearly being hooked/interferred to prevent him from having any chance of getting his stick on it anyway, so could have been a penalty as well.

As for Gophs, when Ryan Reilly is one of the best players on the ice (not that he is horrible, he played great last night), you have a lot of guys not giving enough effort.

Wisko McBadgerton
02-01-2014, 11:12 AM
And he was clearly being hooked/interferred to prevent him from having any chance of getting his stick on it anyway, so could have been a penalty as well.



True, but I'd really hate to see refs calling that kind of thing right in front of the net. Unless it's really blatant those kinds of calls would change the game itself.

4four4
02-01-2014, 11:12 AM
Deflected with a skate does not equal kicked.

On the radio broadcast last night, they were saying how they talked to Greg Shepard (supervisor of officials for the WCHA) last year or so, and Greg had said "think soccer" when the topic of kicking vs re-directing. There's a reason they use the term "distinct kicking motion"

Having said that, the Spartans definitely have something going that the Gophers are having problems with. I assume it's the amount of blocked shots. Credit to Sparty for figuring out how to keep MN off the scoreboard.

MSU knows they don't have the horses to play inspiring up and down hockey so they are smart by playing the trap. It's really painful to watch but effective.