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  • #16
    Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

    Originally posted by The Zlax45 View Post
    In the east, the teams already host just at secondary rinks! Unh always has that huge home advantage in manchester
    and what good has it done them?
    *****

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    • #17
      Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

      Originally posted by willythekid View Post
      They have complied with everything that they were supposed to... anything that is in the Ralph now is permanent or has to do with the history of the team. This is how I understand it anyhow. The Ralph was a finalist for the women's FF so it is good to go. The fact that the NC$$ still has a beef with UND is another story.
      So could Pegula host a Western Regional series / Women's FF??
      CCT '77 & '78
      4 kids
      5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
      1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

      ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
      - Benjamin Franklin

      Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

      I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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      • #18
        Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

        I don't like the idea of campus regionals. This would put smaller schools at even more of a disadvantage. I would also be curious how many eastern schools have rinks big enough for fans of 4 teams.
        2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
        2008-09 Atlantic Hockey Co-Champions!
        2009-10 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
        2010 Frozen Four participant
        2010-11 Atlantic Hockey Champions!

        Member of the infamous Corner Crew

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        • #19
          Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

          Originally posted by komey1 View Post
          I don't like the idea of campus regionals. This would put smaller schools at even more of a disadvantage. I would also be curious how many eastern schools have rinks big enough for fans of 4 teams.
          Define minimum. If 3,000 is your floor, then there are a few that do not meet the criteria.

          But if the idea is to protect the #1 seeds then I say go for it!
          CCT '77 & '78
          4 kids
          5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
          1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

          ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
          - Benjamin Franklin

          Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

          I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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          • #20
            Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

            I vote that all regionals be held in Vancouver.

            U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
            Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
            I spell Failure with UAF

            Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
            But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
            Originally posted by Doyle Woody
            Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

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            • #21
              Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

              Originally posted by komey1 View Post
              I don't like the idea of campus regionals. This would put smaller schools at even more of a disadvantage. I would also be curious how many eastern schools have rinks big enough for fans of 4 teams.
              There are two models for having Regionals at home rinks. Which one are you talking about?

              In one model, the rink is pre-assigned and has nothing to do with the seedings. In that model, minimum seating capacities probably apply. This model probably does favor the larger schools, because, in addition to seating capacity problems, the smaller schools probably don’t have the logistical and administrative structures that would be necessary to sponsor a Regional, especially one that may not involve their team.

              In another model, the higher/highest seed is host. Seating capacity minimums could apply, but don’t have to; if your rink’s too small, you’d just have to put up with the hassles of fans who want to attend, but can’t.


              Originally posted by joecct View Post
              Define minimum. If 3,000 is your floor, then there are a few that do not meet the criteria.

              But if the idea is to protect the #1 seeds then I say go for it!
              And if it’s not about protecting the #1 seeds? The only recent example we have is the 2015 Midwest Regional. If Notre Dame makes the tournament, but not as one of the top four seeds, some #1 seed will get farked. If Notre Dame makes the tournament as one of the top four seeds, they will have an advantage that none of the other top four seeds have.

              And BTW, not to be a wise-***, but he didn't use the term "minimum". I think you mean define "big enough".
              Last edited by CLS; 12-14-2013, 03:05 PM.

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              • #22
                Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

                Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                No offense to you personally, but the fact that this was posted by a Michigan fan made me throw up in my mouth a little.
                We understand. Michigan hosting a regional would be an automatic bid to the Frozen Four.
                ---
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                • #23
                  Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

                  Originally posted by CLS View Post
                  There are two models for having Regionals at home rinks. Which one are you talking about?

                  In one model, the rink is pre-assigned and has nothing to do with the seedings. In that model, minimum seating capacities probably apply. This model probably does favor the larger schools, because, in addition to seating capacity problems, the smaller schools probably don’t have the logistical and administrative structures that would be necessary to sponsor a Regional, especially one that may not involve their team.

                  In another model, the higher/highest seed is host. Seating capacity minimums could apply, but don’t have to; if your rink’s too small, you’d just have to put up with the hassles of fans who want to attend, but can’t.
                  I don't like higher seeds hosting, If it is predetermined, then at least it is known and a good minimum seating, that is good for attendance I think.
                  2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                  2008-09 Atlantic Hockey Co-Champions!
                  2009-10 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                  2010 Frozen Four participant
                  2010-11 Atlantic Hockey Champions!

                  Member of the infamous Corner Crew

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                  • #24
                    Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

                    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                    No offense to you personally, but the fact that this was posted by a Michigan fan made me throw up in my mouth a little.

                    Was that seriously your "worthwhile" thought? Can't we get a little thought here or do you not want to tax both brain cells?
                    Originally posted by alfablue
                    Still bitter, eh? Gotta get over it someday. He left, and UMICH was right.
                    Originally posted by Nick Papagiorgio
                    I think Notre Dame should wear sparkly silver helmets to match all their runner-up trophies.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

                      Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                      I don't like higher seeds hosting, If it is predetermined, then at least it is known and a good minimum seating, that is good for attendance I think.
                      I tend to agree with this outlook, though to some extent the east is different from the west and what makes sense in fairly compact New England/New York (mostly at least) might not work as well in a region that extends from Central PA to Colorado. But my view is that there ought to be more effort made at putting teams in their home regions and less concern with balancing the brackets. Even if you do it in a pod system like they use in basketball. So even if UNH and Cornell are the 3 and 4 seed in the west, they still play in Manchester or Albany. Better yet, I'd make the Regionals truly regional. go back to the old days of East vs. West. Then I'd focus on smaller arenas for the regionals. Ideally something in the 5000 to about 8000 seat size unless a place has a strong history of supporting the regionals. Finally, I would insure that the regionals were only played in "hockey areas," Places that have local college teams in the vicinity. Cumberland county Civic Center in Portland Maine? OK. St Louis? Don't call us, we'll call you. In this model I suppose I wouldn't have a huge problem with Conte or Aggannis, htough again in the northeast there are a number of neutral arenas that would and have worked so you might not need to use campus sites. I'm not as sure about the west.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

                        Originally posted by Jim View Post
                        ...Better yet, I'd make the Regionals truly regional. go back to the old days of East vs. West. ...
                        If the Regionals are made more “regional”, the problem kind of goes away, because there’d be no need to have the same system in the East and the West. The current system works fine as is in the East, and the West could go to whatever system works for them, whether it be Regionals at the higher seed, on pre-assigned on-campus Regional sites, or whatever. That’s really not fair to do under the current system because eastern schools get shipped west and western schools get shipped east.

                        I’d be sad if that happened, because I think it’s fun, when I go to the Regionals, to see teams that I don’t normally see, for example a few years back when North Dakota played UAA/UAF, sorry don’t remember which. And there’s also a possibility that the Regionals could often be repeats of the conference tournaments.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

                          I don't like campus regionals at all. I think it just gives that team far too big an advantage, assuming they make it in.
                          I don't think the NCAA has exhausted all the options. Before they go to campus sites, which is a cop out if you ask me, they ought to explore other possibilities.
                          Such as:
                          1. the east works fine, this is a west problem mostly.
                          2. don't charge so much.
                          3. consider super regionals. instead of 4 teams, have 8.
                          4. make them more stable. in other words, quit moving them around so much.(In the east Bridgeport hosts every other year. do that in the west.)
                          5. and get more locals.!
                          MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

                            Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
                            I don't like campus regionals at all. I think it just gives that team far too big an advantage, assuming they make it in.
                            I don't think the NCAA has exhausted all the options. Before they go to campus sites, which is a cop out if you ask me, they ought to explore other possibilities.
                            Such as:
                            1. the east works fine, this is a west problem mostly.
                            2. don't charge so much.
                            3. consider super regionals. instead of 4 teams, have 8.
                            4. make them more stable. in other words, quit moving them around so much.(In the east Bridgeport hosts every other year. do that in the west.)
                            5. and get more locals.!
                            While any of these suggestions may seem reasonable, each brings up considerable issues.
                            1. While it may seem like fixing the west solves the problem, this brings up huge equity issues. Why should Notre Dame (should they make the NCAAs in 2015) get an easier path to a FF simply because neutral site regionals work in the east but not the west? They'd get an advantage the other three teams might not. The system has to be relatively equal for all 16 teams. "Fixing" the west for attendance issues will almost certainly involve campus sites. You simply can't have that for one or two regionals but not the others.
                            2. This one is the most obvious fix and we'll see one more time if lower ticket prices have a positive effect, since prices in Cincinnati are lower than they've been in years (about what I paid in 2004 for the Van Andel regional). Of course putting the games in an area that is sort of local to just three teams, one of them having little history or following in college hockey and one struggling mightily to revisit their past glory, will mitigate a lot of the positive effect of realistic ticket prices.
                            3. Won't have much effect at all on in game atmosphere. People's tastes are changing and few actually want to watch any game not involving their team. This is readily evident any time you see a day with two games. 2 sets of fans (sometimes only one if one or both teams are distant) show up for the first game and are mostly gone before the second game starts, and two sets of fans begin to trickle in around the time the first game ends and at no time are more than a little more than half of the people actually in the building. And while possible to accomplish, the logistics for 8 teams to use a facility will be an absolute nightmare, require a supreme effort (and lots of people, most of whom are expecting to be paid, raising the cost of a bid), and will have some horrible ice, rivaling any outdoor game, for many of the contests.
                            4. I would think Bridgeport (or Manchester) keep hosting because they keep putting in the bids, and there aren't other credible suiters. The only reason Notre Dame was awarded the bid for the 2015 tournament is because no one else bid on the Midwest regional.
                            5. See #3. Locals won't show up without a team to root for. If Notre Dame lays one of their semi-regular eggs next season instead of this season and misses this thing, JJfP and I will make up a large portion of the crowd. And before you say it is because South Bend is a town that doesn't care about hockey, the same would be true at any other campus site without the host school and is proven true at most of the regionals in the West. Few locals show up in Grand Rapids without MSU or U of M. Toledo was the same thing. People are not willing to pay very much money to watch games not involving teams they don't root for. Those of us on this forum are in no way representative of the typical college sports fan. In fact many people on this board wouldn't think of making any sort of travel at all for games not involving their teams.

                            In my opinion this is a problem that will not be solved in the West. Unless these games are on campus sites, (or at the X in St Paul should Minnesota be involved) you will continue to see crowds like we've seen over the last few seasons.
                            Last edited by WeAreNDHockey; 12-17-2013, 07:17 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

                              In the east, it seems like it is between these five cities all the time. Albany, Bridgeport, Manchester, Worcester, and Providence. I am fine with each of these but some major home ice advantages at many of these facilities for the hosts especially UNH in Manchester, PC or Brown in Providence, Bridgeport for Quinnipiac or Yale, etc...
                              Yes I am the former member known as Zlax45

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                              • #30
                                Re: Campus Regional's coming back maybe?

                                Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                                I don't like the idea of campus regionals. This would put smaller schools at even more of a disadvantage...
                                Originally posted by CLS View Post
                                There are two models for having Regionals at home rinks. Which one are you talking about?...In another model, the higher/highest seed is host. Seating capacity minimums could apply, but don’t have to; if your rink’s too small, you’d just have to put up with the hassles of fans who want to attend, but can’t.
                                Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                                I don't like higher seeds hosting, If it is predetermined, then at least it is known and a good minimum seating, that is good for attendance I think.
                                I can understand someone from Atlantic Hockey feeling this way. With insular schedule problem, it's tough for an AH member to crack the Top 8 in the pairwise.

                                But if we really let the top seeds host, it would create a terrific opportunity for the "have-nots" from the other conferences. If you have a dream season and can crack the Top 8, you might very well get to host a "brand name" school on your campus. It could be a team that might not otherwise agree to schedule a game at your place. And even if you wind up in a #9 through #16 slot, at least you're playing a national game in front of a good crowd. I've just got to believe that, for most athletes, playing against a loud crowd is more motivating than playing in front of a sea of empty seats.

                                Question for Eastern Fans: Have the regionals really, truly gotten that much better in the last 5-10 years? I was in Worcester in '05. That field included both BC and BU. North Dakota was also there. And the building was never particularly full. Merchandise sales? Some occurred, but sales weren't particularly brisk. I'd allow that the games had a good atmosphere, but I certainly wouldn't say great. And I would have guessed that particular field would be a best case scenario. Why should we settle for something that is merely satisfactory? Or has it really improved to the point where the Eastern Regionals are actually worth defending?

                                Yes, the problem is worse in the West than in the East. But I still have to wonder, as a general proposition, if there will ever really be a market for the Round of 16 on neutral sites. I do think that the Round of 8 can ultimately do well in neutral buildings. Note that's a total of 4 games beyond the Frozen Four, for a total of 7. That's within the attention span of the average fan, while 15 games really is not.

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