RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

It undoubtedly was even better when I graduated. The total tuition for my four years was $7250 and other costs may have made it slightly over $10K. I don't know what the starting salary was back then, but I suspect that was not much less then that total cost. (I guess one needs to ignore the salaries of those who went to Viet Nam.)

RB-Did you go to work right out of RPI? I had Medical School to finish first so my starting salary was as an inter 5 years later and was $5000 for the entire year as I recall. Then off to Boston as a Resident and teaching fellow with a huge 20% raise to $6000 per year So my initial ROI was not all that spectacular. But after 3 years of Residency there and then 2 more in other specialties elsewhere, I seemed to have made the right choice as i caught up fairly quickly. But the timing was right for me-I suspect if i made the same choices now-I might still be in debt and paying off student loans.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

RB-Did you go to work right out of RPI? I had Medical School to finish first so my starting salary was as an inter 5 years later and was $5000 for the entire year as I recall. Then off to Boston as a Resident and teaching fellow with a huge 20% raise to $6000 per year So my initial ROI was not all that spectacular. But after 3 years of Residency there and then 2 more in other specialties elsewhere, I seemed to have made the right choice as i caught up fairly quickly. But the timing was right for me-I suspect if i made the same choices now-I might still be in debt and paying off student loans.

The way you phrased that, the answer is "yes". I went to work immediately after receiving my Ph. D. from RPI in 1974, not after my B.S. in 1968. It took me six years to get my Ph.D. because I was teaching full time (three 3-credit courses per semester) and only taking 6 credits of courses per semester for the first four years in order to avoid the draft. I also took courses the first couple of summers.

Thus I don't know what the starting salaries were in 1968. I do know what I got in 1974 with a Ph.D.

[DeepRed72]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

The way you phrased that, the answer is "yes". I went to work immediately after receiving my Ph. D. from RPI in 1974, not after my B.S. in 1968. It took me six years to get my Ph.D. because I was teaching full time (three 3-credit courses per semester) and only taking 6 credits of courses per semester for the first four years in order to avoid the draft. I also took courses the first couple of summers.

Thus I don't know what the starting salaries were in 1968. I do know what I got in 1974 with a Ph.D.

I kept a fairly accurate running account of all my costs during my 4 undergraduate years. I graduated in 1972. Including tuition, books, room & board, transportation, drinking (NYS legal age was 18 back in the day - remember the Rathskeller had a tap!), etc. the 4 years came to about $20K ($4.5K Freshman year, $5.5K Senior year). Of that about $6K was academic scholarship. My loans amounted to about $4K. So half was funded by savings and summer jobs. Although I was matriculating in the Professional Program (remember that one could gain an extra year of draft deferment if you entered this program which issued a B.S. and Masters after the five years), when I realized my draft lottery number was just high enough that I would not be called, I dropped the Masters and left after 4 years with only the B.S. in ChemE. I took my first job in 1972 as an Intern Engineer as the job market was much tighter than I imagined. My first true Engineering job was at an Aerospace company starting in June 1973 with a starting salary of $10.9K. I eventually got an MBA and a P.E license along the way but don't know if there is evidence that those contributed to the subsequent salary increases but maybe helped with not ever being laid off. Considering that I worked 40 years without ever being unemployed, in an industry that had credible pension benefits if you stayed, I would indeed agree that the RPI degree was well worth the investment, even considering the 4 years of opportunity loss while in school. Even though retired for just over a year now, those checks are still coming in.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

I kept a fairly accurate running account of all my costs during my 4 undergraduate years. I graduated in 1972. Including tuition, books, room & board, transportation, drinking (NYS legal age was 18 back in the day - remember the Rathskeller had a tap!), etc. the 4 years came to about $20K ($4.5K Freshman year, $5.5K Senior year). Of that about $6K was academic scholarship. My loans amounted to about $4K. So half was funded by savings and summer jobs. Although I was matriculating in the Professional Program (remember that one could gain an extra year of draft deferment if you entered this program which issued a B.S. and Masters after the five years), when I realized my draft lottery number was just high enough that I would not be called, I dropped the Masters and left after 4 years with only the B.S. in ChemE. I took my first job in 1972 as an Intern Engineer as the job market was much tighter than I imagined. My first true Engineering job was at an Aerospace company starting in June 1973 with a starting salary of $10.9K. I eventually got an MBA and a P.E license along the way but don't know if there is evidence that those contributed to the subsequent salary increases but maybe helped with not ever being laid off. Considering that I worked 40 years without ever being unemployed, in an industry that had credible pension benefits if you stayed, I would indeed agree that the RPI degree was well worth the investment, even considering the 4 years of opportunity loss while in school. Even though retired for just over a year now, those checks are still coming in.

I probably underestimated the other costs. It depends upon what is included. It was definitely still less than your $20K, but I was 4 years ahead of you. (Also I didn't reach 18 until the middle of my sophomore year. )

[RPI67]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

I think my tuition was $1400-1964, $1600-1965, $1800-1966, $2000-1967 total $6,800 with other costs about the same so maybe $15,000. I had a job offer for $9,200 in 1967. I stayed 1 year for a masters and started at a defense company for $12,000 worked 40 years and collect a pension. The RPI degress were a very good ROI of cost and experience competing with all you smart guys. All helped in my career.

Looking forward to more great RPI hockey starting tomorrow. Go RED.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

I think my tuition was $1400-1964, $1600-1965, $1800-1966, $2000-1967 total $6,800 with other costs about the same so maybe $15,000. I had a job offer for $9,200 in 1967. I stayed 1 year for a masters and started at a defense company for $12,000 worked 40 years and collect a pension. The RPI degress were a very good ROI of cost and experience competing with all you smart guys. All helped in my career.

Looking forward to more great RPI hockey starting tomorrow. Go RED.

My recollection is slightly different. I assume that the years are the years after January. I don't know what 1964 was, and 1965 and 1966 were indeed the numbers which you listed, but I recall that 1967 was also $1800 and 1968 was $2050.

As to great RPI hockey, I think that you will have to wait another week.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

When I was there, $40k, $43k, $45k, $48k, and that was for pretty much everything. Mine was medal scholarship and need-based aid with government subsidies. Ended up with 30k in loans, job starting around 50k straight out, and paid off in three years despite waiting the 6 month grace period. Of course, I also accelerated payment on the highest interest bearing loans.

My, how times have changed.

[RPI_2003]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

A few more data points.

My freshman year, fall '99/spring '00, tuition was $22300. The meal plan was $1916. Nason Hall was $3828. Activity fee: $352. Health Insurance and Health Center fee: $640. Freshman Orientation fee: $150. Rensselaer ID card fee: $30. Books/Materials for both semesters: $670. That's just shy of $30 grand.

My senior year, fall '02/spring '03, tuition had skyrocketed to $26400 (~18% increase). The meal plan was $3982 (~100% increase!); my nice single in the E-Complex was $4380 (~14% increase). Activity fee: $425 (~20% increase). Health Insurance and Health Center fee: $954 (~50% increase). Vehicle parking registration: $64. Books/Materials for both semesters: $815. That's $37k.

Now, according to RPI, for fall '13/spring '14, tuition: $45100. Room and board: $12960. Fees: $1169. Books/Materials: $2591. That's just about $62k.

I don't know how parents do it these days. As much as I miss my years at the 'tute, I'm glad I'm done.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

A few more data points.

My freshman year, fall '99/spring '00, tuition was $22300. The meal plan was $1916. Nason Hall was $3828. Activity fee: $352. Health Insurance and Health Center fee: $640. Freshman Orientation fee: $150. Rensselaer ID card fee: $30. Books/Materials for both semesters: $670. That's just shy of $30 grand.

My senior year, fall '02/spring '03, tuition had skyrocketed to $26400 (~18% increase). The meal plan was $3982 (~100% increase!); my nice single in the E-Complex was $4380 (~14% increase). Activity fee: $425 (~20% increase). Health Insurance and Health Center fee: $954 (~50% increase). Vehicle parking registration: $64. Books/Materials for both semesters: $815. That's $37k.

Now, according to RPI, for fall '13/spring '14, tuition: $45100. Room and board: $12960. Fees: $1169. Books/Materials: $2591. That's just about $62k.

I don't know how parents do it these days. As much as I miss my years at the 'tute, I'm glad I'm done.

Some of it has to do with government subsidies. Because there is a body willing to guarantee payment, there's no reason why they shouldn't take advantage of that. However, my senior year did not see an increase in grants despite a 7% increase in tuition. A lot more of it has to do with demand. Children have had the idea indoctrinated into their brainwashed minds that they must go to college in order to succeed in life. When the demand for a product increases, the seller can maximize the profits made by increasing the price, because people will be willing to pay for it. Obviously because an educational institution is typically considered a non-profit-making organization (hard to believe in the case of RPI), the cash has to go somewhere, and although we've been seeing the queen's pockets being lined, there is more that can be done at the institute without having to incur as much more long-term debt. Obviously the demand for specific things has caused inflation, but that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

[RPI fan 4 life]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

Expensive Frozen Drivel..

One week to go until our next game.

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

Now, according to RPI, for fall '13/spring '14, tuition: $45100. Room and board: $12960. Fees: $1169. Books/Materials: $2591. That's just about $62k.

I don't know how parents do it these days. As much as I miss my years at the 'tute, I'm glad I'm done.

I tossed out that link earlier which I suppose is based on fairly recent data-simply to show that RPI is ranked extremely well as far as ROI(even now with skyrocketing tuition and expenses). Being listed as #20 out of about 3500 schools is pretty darn good! Recent graduates and those still attending might not have the perspective just yet but it appears that us older guys who have been away from RPI for an extended period of time really have nothing to complain about $62k compared to my final year in 1966 does appear staggering though(but my first year post RPI getting paid was 1970 and as I mentioned my total year's compensation then was $5000).

[RPI_2003]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

I tossed out that link earlier which I suppose is based on fairly recent data-simply to show that RPI is ranked extremely well as far as ROI(even now with skyrocketing tuition and expenses). Being listed as #20 out of about 3500 schools is pretty darn good! Recent graduates and those still attending might not have the perspective just yet but it appears that us older guys who have been away from RPI for an extended period of time really have nothing to complain about $62k compared to my final year in 1966 does appear staggering though(but my first year post RPI getting paid was 1970 and as I mentioned my total year's compensation then was $5000).

I do agree that, for RPI and a handful of other schools, the ROI is still there (it certainly worked out well for me)... but for many other schools, and many other students, it's a different story. Something to keep in mind is that the average household income in the US is something around $52k and to FlagDude's point, if it weren't for the government-subsidized loans, there likely wouldn't be enough students to justify these prices and therefore probably not many of these schools would continue to exist. But I digress.
/expensive frozen drivel

Six days until RPI hockey!

[REDRocket]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

Six days until RPI hockey!

...and Clarkson still sucks!

[TuteScrooge]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

Time for me to chime in.

I have a couple of data points, I attended from '75 -'79 (BS in Biology), and tuition was in the $5.5-7K range if I remember correctly. My folks paid for my tuition and R+B, I paid for all incidentals (books, booze, travel), Went from there to Univ of Wisc. for a PhD. I can't say that RPI has been THE critical item in my pedigree, but I can say that it has opened some doors, and it gave me a solid background in chemistry and math which have served me in good stead during my career. I was one of the few biologists that understood differential equations and how to apply them to biological systems; enabling a move over to the biology/computer interface arena a few years ago; a place where some biologists and computer scientists fear to tread. Been gainfully employed for the past ~30 years in pharma drug discovery.

Second data point is eldest son, graduated from the 'Tute in 2010, with a BS in EE. Immediately found a job in his field (during a tough economy), partially due to the name recognition of RPI (several of the Sr. VPs have ties to the school). He got scholarships (leadership and legacy) that brought the cost down to in-state costs at UCONN, so his (mine?) ROI is great.

Regarding how to pay for this, we started planning when our kids were born. We always figured that they would go to post-secondary schooling of some sort, and even then we knew it was going to get really expensive. We set up trust funds for their education prior to their first birthday, and kept kicking in. While this killed any chance for need-based grants, it let me sleep at night. We did the same deal, tuition + room + board, they did the other bits. So our kids got out of 4 year private school with no debt and a promise that they would pay it forward to their kids.

As an aside, my Dad went to Clarkson, and he always encouraged me to go to RPI. I looked at CCT (as it was called then), and just didn't feel the love. It's a good school, but not on the same level as RPI.

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2013/14 Part II: The HFH is Covered with Frozen Drivel

Time for me to chime in.

I have a couple of data points, I attended from '75 -'79 (BS in Biology), and tuition was in the $5.5-7K range if I remember correctly. My folks paid for my tuition and R+B, I paid for all incidentals (books, booze, travel), Went from there to Univ of Wisc. for a PhD. I can't say that RPI has been THE critical item in my pedigree, but I can say that it has opened some doors, and it gave me a solid background in chemistry and math which have served me in good stead during my career. I was one of the few biologists that understood differential equations and how to apply them to biological systems; enabling a move over to the biology/computer interface arena a few years ago; a place where some biologists and computer scientists fear to tread. Been gainfully employed for the past ~30 years in pharma drug discovery.

Second data point is eldest son, graduated from the 'Tute in 2010, with a BS in EE. Immediately found a job in his field (during a tough economy), partially due to the name recognition of RPI (several of the Sr. VPs have ties to the school). He got scholarships (leadership and legacy) that brought the cost down to in-state costs at UCONN, so his (mine?) ROI is great.

Regarding how to pay for this, we started planning when our kids were born. We always figured that they would go to post-secondary schooling of some sort, and even then we knew it was going to get really expensive. We set up trust funds for their education prior to their first birthday, and kept kicking in. While this killed any chance for need-based grants, it let me sleep at night. We did the same deal, tuition + room + board, they did the other bits. So our kids got out of 4 year private school with no debt and a promise that they would pay it forward to their kids.

As an aside, my Dad went to Clarkson, and he always encouraged me to go to RPI. I looked at CCT (as it was called then), and just didn't feel the love. It's a good school, but not on the same level as RPI.

Your father certainly sounds like he was a very wise man.