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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
If he jumped on top of the player, I think somebody would have saw this...
If he jumped on top of the player, I think somebody would have saw this...
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Yes I am the former member known as Zlax45
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
The size of the player is totally irrelevant. No coach, at any level of competition, EVER has the right to put their hands on a player in anger. Full stop. Fin. End. No excuse making, no context. Never.Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
That having been said, is dismissal the proper way to handle this? I don't think so. This could have and should have been resolved in house. You can reprimand a coach without firing them. And it certainly wasn't ok to be (purposely?) vague in the press release and damage the coaches reputation in that regard.Lowell Forever
Forever LowellComment
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Haha, you are an idiot bud. You really don't have a clue. The article was exactly what occurred based on what I was told by players that were on the bench at the time. In fact, they said it wasn't really a big deal other than the player who was flipping out on the bench and continued to do so afterward in the team room. Did I already say that...you are an idiot?
Originally posted by prideofthecats View PostHeeeeey everyone I'm baaaaack
For those of you who don't know me, just check out my previous posts and you'll know I caused a stir earlier in the thread because I dared to say McCloskey's firing was just (GASP)
Just thought I'd chime in here really quick before you all get carried away with the Globe article today.
Ok, get ready for the real story and my input (which I know most of you won't care about, but I'll throw it in anyway just for kicks)
I'd like to say this has nothing to do with how the administration handled the situation. You guys can debate that all you want.
-First of all, I'm hearing a lot about how the "other side" won't talk (the "deafening silence"). Did it occur to anyone that they are abiding by the school's policy of not talking to the media? DUHHHHH You can debate all you want about whether or not it's the right strategy, but it is the one the school has chosen to go with and they've obviously chosen to respect it.
-Next, one highlight of the article some have chosen to focus on is the size difference between the two people and how there is no way he could have done any harm. How many of you have ever played on a sports team? (I suspect most of you.) Your coach is the authority figure, the one everyone is supposed to listen to and follow. So if your coach, an suddenly attacks you, obviously you would be a little hesitant to fight back at all. It would be like trying to fight the principle at school. So when your little 5'4" coach claims that he would be too small in comparison to do any kind of harm, keep in mind how easy it would be to hit someone who isn't trying to fight back.
-He has said that the incident only came to light because a roommate's parent complained. One, that "roommate" would have had to have been a teammate since virtually everyone on the team lives with other teammates. Also, the incident was also reported by two members of the staff who were on the bench at the time. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't informed about this although I find it unlikely that he wouldn't know. This means that more than one member of his own staff felt that it was a severe enough offense to report it to the Athletic Department.
-I find it ironic how the people who got so mad at the girl for swearing don't bat an eye to him swearing at her. But anyway.....
Annnnnnddddddd finally, for those of you who are wondering why they would so suddenly fire a coach of 20 years.
What we have here is a perfect case of "half-truth" (or maybe he's just got some reallyy selective memory). He puts a lot of details into his story and even includes himself swearing back at her. As Chuck said, "Coach does not sugarcoat what he said to the player (including profanity) as part of the "altercation" (Btw Chuck I have a lot of respect for you and your responses even though we disagree) and as Mark Eagle said "First, Coach is not running from the incident. "Yeah, I did it, and this is what happened."" That is EXACTLY the response he wants from people. It's kind of like an 'Oh, well he admitted he did this wrong so that must be all that he did.' I don't blame him though. No one wants to incriminate themselves.
HOWEVER, there are a few minorrrr details that he failed to mention. It is true that he grabbed her and pulled her down. But it doesn't end there. He then pinned her to the bench, got on top of her, grabbed her mask, shook her head(slamming the mask repeatedly into her chin), and stuck his finger in her mouth (all while screaming of course).
Again, they really just minor things that I'm sure he didn't think would add to the story. I mean, he is getting up there in age so maybe his memory is fading a bit.
This is also why I first made my point about the size difference.
I know that many of you will doubt my credibility (which is completely fine with me). BUT when this is all over, and the truth has come out through this police investigation, I will be back to say I told you so.
For now, I'm out of here. I'll let you all tear me apart and whatnot because that is guaranteed to happen.
There's the truth.
WILDCARD B****ES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYtjpIwamosComment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Obviously this beetchie hockey player should be playing basketball at 6'0' tall. Its her gd mom's fault. Is scarface in jail yet?sure why notComment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
If there is any truth to what prideofthecats has just shared with us, then i think we have a whole different kettle of fish, and would (if true) explain an awful lot about the administration's actions and the subsequent police investigation. Simple as that.
I'm Not forming an opinion as to the veracity of the story, but it appears that there is at least one other perspective in play here. Several of you asked POTC to share his/her details they've been shared now. For all the "certainty" of how the incident went down, this, at a minimum, makes for interesting reading.Last edited by wildcatdc; 02-19-2014, 07:02 PM.Signature line intentionally left blank.Comment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
If coach gave the player the Bobby Knight treatment than absolutely there is a case for what the University has done. However, I do think that a fellow player or assistant would have seen that ongoing and attempted to stop that kind of treatment of a student athlete at the time. I am still waiting for someone to pull the game tape and show the smoking gun. If the University had it, don't you think it would be out by now? This still smells of a player coach disagreement that somehow got the athletic administration involved, and the University was looking for a way to have the firing be with cause.
There are no winners in this story, and really is going to set back the Women's Hockey Program for awhile. I hope Marty was thinking of the collateral damage.UNH Wildcats
1985 Women's Lacrosse Division I National Champions
So much for empty trophy cases
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Originally posted by prideofthecats View PostBack on January 18th, you said you were "sorry I cannot say exactly what happened out of respect for the university and the girls on the team."Originally posted by prideofthecats View Post
Now, on February 19th, you CAN say exactly what happened.
Why now? Why couldn't you say this back in mid January, but you can now?'Eavesdropped the BC forum in USCHO. A range of intellects over there. Mostly gentlemen, but a couple of coarse imbeciles' - academic_index, a Brown fanComment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Chit , Umile pulled one of his players down to the bench in a game against UVM on national TV a few years ago. Why wasn't he fired ? Or has the admin just had to much of that bs behavior and decided to put an end to it?sure why notComment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
I pointed this out merely to debunk the idea that somehow the player was physically intimidated by Coach. Considering the profanity that she initiated towards Coach, I would dare suggest she wasn't intimidated in the slightest. Beyond that, I pretty much agree with your take here. As you touch on in Part 2 below, though, I do also agree that a stern reprimand to both player and coach was in order.Originally posted by Patronick View Post
Captain Gifford termed the contents of the press release as "pretty pathetic" or something to that effect. I believe. I think 90% of us agree with her.Originally posted by Patronick View PostSworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
Montreal Expos Forever ...Comment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Just a few questions, and I'd ask that you at least consider responding IF you do care about your credibility:Originally posted by prideofthecats View Post
* Seriously ... are you an eyewitness, or are these details obtained on a hearsay basis from others?
* IF this version were to be believed ... then why would Captain Gifford and the other unidentified teammate who spoke at length to Dupont go out of their way to back Coach's version, while having the guts to do the right thing, and ignore BB35's self-imposed (and highly self-serving) policy of silence? If your version was accurate, I'd think taking a stand in defense of a teammate, with the backing of the AD's office, would be a MUCH easier stance to take - no?
* Also - do you think both Gifford and the unidentified teammate (and others) would not be telling the investigating officers the SAME EXACT story they have related to Dupont? Do you have any reason to challenge their integrity? After all - wasn't it you who originally came on here and said others were "calling the girls liars?" Isn't that what you are doing now to Gifford and the other player(s)?
* Would Erika Mantz be distancing herself from allegations of sexual misconduct by Coach IF your version was even close to accurate?
* And again ... if your version was/is accurate, why the long delay in initiating the criminal investigation? Heck, if that version is even close to accurate, I can't imagine there NOT being a long line of witnesses to back up a victimized teammate. That just doesn't make any sense - at least not to me.
And yes - the "other side" (BB35 and his minions) won't talk, but I'm not aware of any "school policy" that prevents communications with the media. In fact, BB35 himself has been in the media since the turn of the year with breathless news about the plans for West Stadium, and how he has used his amazing powers of persuasion (Grovel, Beg, & Plead) to convince Coach MacDonnell to stay at UNH. He's also been a guest on ESPN-Henniker or something trying to defend the mess that is the Men's Basketball program. Talking to the media may actually be one of the biggest parts of BB35's job. It certainly isn't that "fundraising thing" now, is it - unless he's turned over a new leaf and located those missing benefactors he's been unable to connect with over the last dozen or so years, eh?
It's just when he's questioned about why he rashly acted to not only terminate a well-respected coach with a 20 year history at the school, but then to issue what many (including the Captain of the Women's Hockey team) feel was a ham-handed, misleading, and (to use Captain Gifford's own word) "pathetic" press release to try to explain his action, BB35 suddenly clams up and orders everyone in his fiefdom to do the same. This also includes an overt attempt to stymie/intimidate FOWH - a VOLUNTEER organization, I might add.
So when you say "this has nothing to do with how the administration handled the situation" ... many of us will disagree. Personally, I think it has EVERYTHING to do with how the admininstration (mis)handled it - especially BB35.
Anxiously awaiting your further response(s) ...Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
Montreal Expos Forever ...Comment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Chuck pretty much nailed it. As always.
And I agree with him and Zlax, if the altercation was as exaggerated and intense as prideofthecats claims it was, I feel like other people(spectators) would have witnessed it and this side of the story would have already came out. That's just my humble opinion though.
I mean people sit right behind the bench, right? There's gotta be fans who witnessed this....Comment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Funny, really, reading your account of the "incident", because as a former FOWH Board member (all of three weeks) I was a part of the meeting with marty, and even HIS version of timeline and events doesn't match yours, although the cocky know it all attitude is familiar. I'll comment on your diatribe and note where the discrepancies are.
Didn't miss you.Originally posted by prideofthecats View Post
I'll get the popcorn.Originally posted by prideofthecats View Post
If the player had had that respectful attitude on November 30, none of this would exist. She turned her back as he was speaking, something she has done on multiple occasions. I too have friends close to the program - players, parents, who have told me on numerous occasions about witnessing the disrespect in practice, long before November 30.Originally posted by prideofthecats View Post
Even marty admitted this.Originally posted by prideofthecats View Post
They were called in after marty got the call on Monday, and told they had 48 hours to file a report, or else.....Originally posted by prideofthecats View Post
It's his side of the story, his version of events. It would be kind of like when someone dressed up as Santa at the Dartmouth game just before break, and stood in the tunnel waiting for the team to take the ice between periods. I saw the video. It looked to me like Santa Claus was accosting the players - jumping at them and even swinging his arms at some of them. Some had to swerve out of the way, almost off the matting to avoid being body slammed. It's true - I saw it. One of the rink attendants literally had to pull him away. That's my story. http://youtu.be/bqntqCpIumoOriginally posted by prideofthecats View Post
Originally posted by prideofthecats View Post
If that is truly the case, I would have done something to stop him, and I'm only his size. I wonder why nobody did, because I know the adults on that bench, and I would never question their integrity, or their ability to know right from wrong.
I wonder why the investigating detectives had to reach out to the public with an appeal for anyone who was at the game to come forward and tell what they saw? They had 15 or so players, two coaches, an athletic trainer, and equipment manager who all, according to you, saw the exact same thing, and told the exact same story.
I question your motives along with your credibility.Originally posted by prideofthecats View Post
Don't really get what this adds.Originally posted by prideofthecats View PostLast edited by DC78-82; 02-20-2014, 11:07 AM."A ROCK BAND IS NOT A PERFECT DEMOCRACY. IT'S LIKE A SPORTS TEAM. NO ONE CAN DO WITHOUT THE OTHER, BUT EVERYBODY DOESN'T GET TO TOUCH THE BALL ALL THE TIME." Don HenleyComment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Couple points....
1. I keep coming back to the same "crux of the issue" point. What REALLY happened on that bench? At this point, there are two substantially divergent views on this. And at this point, it appears that those two views may or may not see the light of day, UNDER OATH, in a court of law. (By that way, I find this really, really depressing). The fact that a large majority of the posters here have already determined which view they are aligned with DOES NOT mean that an alternative viewpoint does not exist, or is any less valid in the mind(s) of those holding that viewpoint.
While it seems that the preponderance of the evidence presented (whether eyewitness accounts, character references, etc.) would point to Coach's story as being the believable one, there has still not been a SINGLE conclusive point made in this thread that would seal the deal for me personally. Even DC 78-82's account (thank you, BTW, the most fact-oriented, "emotion-free", reasoned response thus far) goes a little soft when we get to the incident itself. (No offense intended, DC, just simply reflecting on how fact-based and informed the rest of your post was).
The other thing I'm struggling with is the fact that in one depiction, the offense seems to certainly merit SUBSTANTIAL punishment, potentially rising to the level of what was doled out. The other, probably not even close. So that leaves us with two options... we don't want to believe the one depiction, but it happened, and Coach was rightfully dismissed. OR, it was in fact the less dramatic depiction, and the firing was almost undoubtedly unjust. THE PROBLEM IS , BOTH VIEWS EXIST. And my struggle is that the administration's actions are very much congruent with the player's accusations, and are generally asymmetric in the other case. Until the minority view is disproven or considered without merit, it doesn't go away, and we have a he said/she said circus. This doesn't make the majority posters here right, and doesn't make the minority posters here wrong. (BTW, I will finally go on the record as saying that I am inclined to believe the Coach. That stated, I have not, and will not make up my mind decisively until the investigative effort is exhausted).
2. While I have also gone on record as to say that the behaviors and communications of the Admin have been balky/awkward at best, woefully misleading/character damaging at worst, I am REALLY confused by folks who think the administration should be communicating every detail, rationale, opinion, etc. That's simply ridiculous. Anyone who has watched a particularly high-profile HR action take place knows that for liability and process-oriented reasons, you simply don't expound upon these types of matters, ESPECIALLY while they are in flight. To be clear, you often don't see the gory details, even AFTER the decisions have been rendered, investigations completed, lawsuits filed/settled/decided, etc. To expect that such a high-level firing (especially for cause) would produce reams of open-kimono exposure to the general public is a little naive.
To bring it closer to home, with a NH/academia example: The Souhegan HS principal, in June 2013, (paraphrasing) "resigned to be closer to family and pursue blah blah blah". Everyone at the school knew why he was "resigning". The parents knew. The kids knew. The school board knew. The townspeople knew. Any stakeholder within a 20-mile radius knew. The Telegraph knew. Maybe even the Union Leader. It was all over social media and in comments on the various newsfeeds. However, the school board buried the story, accepted his resignation, and life goes on. That may be the case here.Last edited by wildcatdc; 02-20-2014, 10:56 AM.Signature line intentionally left blank.Comment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
WOW - excellent post!Originally posted by wildcatdc View Post
This last little bit is where I will focus my comments.
If the athletic department leadership had used their heads a resignation is where this incident would have ended. The coach would have been "very sick" for a couple days maybe even missed a game or 2 with a terrible stomach virus. They would have completed enough of an investigation to have this all locked down ahead of time. At that point they would force the coach to resign over the Christmas break to spend more time with family at his home in B.C.Originally posted by wildcatdc View Post
I really think this was an excuse to move on from Coach McCloskey for some series of reasons: team not doing well, he was a pain in the butt, he regularly smelled bad, etc. etc. none of which added up to a dismissal and this was the opportunity.
The problem is the media management of this situation was so poorly handled that they left themselves open to a number of issues from political fallout up to legal action. If the dismissal had not left a sexual overtone of male coach female player "in appropriate contact" this wouldn't have blown up this way. Additionally the desire to get to the facts wouldn’t be so passionate.
If I was University President this large a media bungle would probably cost the AD his job. Not right away, managing a large entity you need to clear the current crisis first, but within a year the AD would be moving on to other opportunities. All this negative press is not good and somebody needs to pay for the mismanagement that caused the problem."Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find" Dave Matthews Band, The Dreaming TreeComment
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Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Originally posted by JB View Post
Agreed 100%. Sorry, I should have been more clear, though.... not suggesting that it would end in his resignation (train has left that station, obviously), just that it might end in a sealed-case, radio-silent environment.Signature line intentionally left blank.Comment
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