Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

[Kepler]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Schafer is an outstanding coach, and he has the added benefit of the Hospitality/Dog Grooming Program at Cornell.

Hey, now. Dog Grooming is a tough class, to say nothing of the Cat Yodeling pre-req.

True story: I knew a Hotelie who flunked "Meats." God she was cute, though.

If Mark Mazz were still coaching you'd see him making in-game adjustments, tinkering trying to find something that works in mid-stream, upsetting the kids....and parents. That used to drive me insane about him! Against Brown on Sat did you see Ted deviate from his game plan one iota? No way!

Not like those chaotic in-game adjusters Jack Parker and Ron Mason.

[ghostofwatson]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I think it's all well and good Ted is a nice guy, and people like him as a person but come on, sometimes its not about wins? Im spoiled as heck being a BC fan but Spaz was a nice guy too, just flat out sucked as a coach. Ted has had 10 years to get it together and they're only getting worse. He hasn't been to the NCAA's since 06, which was a team essentially put together by Mazzoleni. If they lose their last 2 games, he'll have 3 seasons where they didn't reach double digits in wins. I don't think it can get much worse at this point.

The argument that they can't compete with other schools because theyre an Ivy is a joke. Yale put that to bed last year, and it's not recruiting that is the issue either. There's 6 NHL draft picks on the roseter and a few more who will be drafter already committed. Shouldn't be too hard to get hockey players to come to the best school in the whole world.

Just can't see a reason for him to be kept.

It's a different situation in the Ivies in terms of coaches having to win. There's a longer leash, for sure. Ted got the team to the playoffs in 2006 and he coached that team, not Mazz, so I'm not sure that you can somehow attribute that accomplishment to Mazz. Ted has proven to be at least as good a recruiter as Mazz IMO.The last few years have been tough because the league has more parity. If you look at the team that we have in the coming years things look good. Next year we return our top ten scorers, and we have another solid recruiting class. I think Ted merits credit for putting that situation together.

[QUAlum2004]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

It's a different situation in the Ivies in terms of coaches having to win. There's a longer leash, for sure. Ted got the team to the playoffs in 2006 and he coached that team, not Mazz, so I'm not sure that you can somehow attribute that accomplishment to Mazz. Ted has proven to be at least as good a recruiter as Mazz IMO.The last few years have been tough because the league has more parity. If you look at the team that we have in the coming years things look good. Next year we return our top ten scorers, and we have another solid recruiting class. I think Ted merits credit for putting that situation together.

Those were not Ted's players the first two seasons he took the team to the NCAA's. When I look at the Crimson and Ted Donato as a whole I see a coach has less with more talent than any coach in the league. Barring a miracle and winning out, Donato is likely going to have his 5th losing season in 6 years and all this with his so called top recruiting classes.

[bothman]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

There is too much to say here (this is a very healthy discussion) that I have the time for, but a few comments:

1) Using NHL draft picks as a proxy for talent / college ability is a farce. It's a tired argument so let's put that one to bed.
2) Donato has underperformed given the talent he has had (there were some lean years and some key departures - Leblanc). In recruiting, when you do have a gap year, it can become a really hard hole to fill
3) No one is violating the rules, but the game has changed. Yale clearly has exhibited that you can still win (they ae in same boat as Harvard), but unlike others (Cornell included), Harvard is significantly younger then the average player from Quinny, SLU, etc. I'm not sure the Harvard value prop translates to a guy who is willing to "hang out" in juniors for 3 years to suddenly beccome relevant to D1 hockey. There are exceptions, but Harvard is myounger and is systemically losing out on the true "blue chippahs" to BC. Where would Lane MacDonald go to school today? Would he choose Harvard again?
4) I believe that Ted should be given a few more years. The recruits are significantly better going forward and I for one want to see what Donato can do with them.
5) People forget that during the MAZZ years, Harvard often meandered through the regular season only to turn it on in the ECACs to earn a spot in the NCAAs. His teams were hardly the standard. I say this not to disparage Mazz or those teams, but rather, Harvard's performance (from my lens) has been disappointing well beyond the Donato years so pinning the lack of success simply on Donato seems short-sighted and incomplete.

This is a great discussion though and I wish I had more time to chime in more frequently.

[mookie1995]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Did that dude seriously try to say teddy is ok and use bron as a measuring stick

[ghostofwatson]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

There is too much to say here (this is a very healthy discussion) that I have the time for, but a few comments:...........

4) I believe that Ted should be given a few more years. The recruits are significantly better going forward and I for one want to see what Donato can do with them.
5) People forget that during the MAZZ years, Harvard often meandered through the regular season only to turn it on in the ECACs to earn a spot in the NCAAs. His teams were hardly the standard. I say this not to disparage Mazz or those teams, but rather, Harvard's performance (from my lens) has been disappointing well beyond the Donato years so pinning the lack of success simply on Donato seems short-sighted and incomplete.






This is a great discussion though and I wish I had more time to chime in more frequently.

Good post. Finally a voice of reason emerges. I like the cut of your jib, sir.

Re: # 4) It's like you said, we need to give Ted a chance, not just rush him out the door. You're a bit hard on Ted though. He can't go out there and win for them, right? Ted can only do so much. His hands are tied. Ted is a class guy and nicest person you'd ever want to meet. Are you forgetting that? People who define success only by wins are short-sighted, missing the big picture. I'm a big picture guy, and I believe you and Ted are, as well. And just to add to your comments, one thing that gets lost in all this is the value Ted has added to the Harvard hockey fan experience. I go to games to be entertained. What about entertainment value? Ted has helped to completely revamp the way Harvard home games are presented. We now have hip music to pump up the crowds, we have Dance Cam, Chuck-A-Puck, Shoot-At -The Open-Net, Text-In Your Seat &Win a Prize, and that very cool video presentation of Harvard hockey through the years. That's innovation! That's what I want. I don't want some staid college band, and a bunch of undergrads taking up space in there just because it's "traditional " or "creates a fun environment." I'm tired of the old thinking, and glad that, now, were embracing the new -- others probably are, too. I don't go to road games but do you think Keith Allain or crumpy Mike Schafer would be on board with this stuff?!? Mark Mazz?!? Highly unlikely. I have a feeling that winning games is pretty much all they're about. For the record, I doubt any of those guys are as nice as Ted is. Allain is constantly scowling, as is Schafer. Btw, congrats to Allian, and good on Yale, but I don't think we ever needed his mirthless visage behind our bench.

Re: # 5) Speaking as a fan, I really only care about the regular season anyway. Some say it speaks well of a coach if he can get his team improving as the season progresses and "do well when it really counts." And I've heard Parker and York talk about "it's not how you play in Dec, it's how you play at the end of the season" but that never made any sense to me. I'd rather see my team peak in Dec or Jan when I'm actually watching games! And last I looked, 2 pts counts as much in Dec as it does in Feb. As for playoffs, well, what are we going to do? Paint our faces and head off for Albany and Pittsburgh to cheer on the boys? No thanks.

[Dutchman]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Interesting Article - a little dated: 1994
At Harvard Now, A Losing Record Isn't A Total Loss
September 04, 1994|By Gordon Edes, Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...-i-aa-football

You have to go back to the 1890's when sports in what is now the Ivy league got way out of hand as the article discusses.

The coach of the '93 team was Joe Restic, who coached longer (23 years) at Harvard than any of his predecessors. He won more games (117) than any Harvard coach, too, but when he quit after last season, the Harvards had not had a winning season in six years, the longest such streak in 120 years of football. Maybe that mattered to some folks-Harvard has hired a bright young fellow named Tim Murphy to turn the program around-but it wasn't life or death to Restic.

"College sports are like a business," said Toby Brundage, a senior center, "but with coach Restic, it was simply just a game. He really didn't care about winning. His whole philosophy was to make gentlemen and good men out of his players."

We all knew Harvard was out of touch with the real world. But obviously, somebody on the banks of the Charles River decided that while football was swell, it was no more so than crew or lacrosse or 17th-Century Romantic poets. Somewhere along the line, someone at Harvard and the other Ivies agreed that football was worth the fun, but not all the headaches of being a powerhouse. A necessary part of campus life, but not a defining mission. The result: lousier teams, clearer consciences. No one can say that the H on a Harvard letter sweater stands for Hypocrisy. This was part of the Ivy League's founding statement: "Ivy members are quick to acknowledge that they themselves are responsible for starting many years ago practices which grew into evils. " . . . The emphasis upon intercollegiate competition must be kept in harmony with the essential educational purpose of the institution."

[ghostofwatson]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

"College sports are like a business," said Toby Brundage, a senior center, "but with coach Restic, it was simply just a game. He really didn't care about winning. His whole philosophy was to make gentlemen and good men out of his players."

[/I]

Very apt, D. I think that's been a goal for institutions/coaches everywhere. But often in the cloud of alumni hubris, alumni funding, USNews rankings, TV contracts, equipement deals, summer camps, etc., that ideal gets lost.

[LTsatch]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

3) No one is violating the rules, but the game has changed. Yale clearly has exhibited that you can still win (they ae in same boat as Harvard), but unlike others (Cornell included), Harvard is significantly younger then the average player from Quinny, SLU, etc. I'm not sure the Harvard value prop translates to a guy who is willing to "hang out" in juniors for 3 years to suddenly beccome relevant to D1 hockey. There are exceptions, but Harvard is myounger and is systemically losing out on the true "blue chippahs" to BC. Where would Lane MacDonald go to school today? Would he choose Harvard again?.

Believe it or not BC is the youngest team in D-1 at 20.6. Most of the schools you quote average 21.5 to 21.9 year old for an average, Harvard is 21.1 on average.

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Good God, it's hard to deal with this much stupidity. Yes, the economy does have an effect on season tix sales. No, we are not playing in the 80's any more. Things have changed, grandpa. Stop this clueless, fact-free whining and try to support your team.

It's hard to respond to someone who refuses to take his meds. In a very small way, I feel sorry for you. You obviously took one in the noggin at some point and it keeps you from offering lucid thoughts on anything that has to do with college hockey.

[LynahFan]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Good post. Finally a voice of reason emerges. I like the cut of your jib, sir.

Re: # 4) It's like you said, we need to give Ted a chance, not just rush him out the door. You're a bit hard on Ted though. He can't go out there and win for them, right? Ted can only do so much. His hands are tied. Ted is a class guy and nicest person you'd ever want to meet. Are you forgetting that? People who define success only by wins are short-sighted, missing the big picture. I'm a big picture guy, and I believe you and Ted are, as well. And just to add to your comments, one thing that gets lost in all this is the value Ted has added to the Harvard hockey fan experience. I go to games to be entertained. What about entertainment value? Ted has helped to completely revamp the way Harvard home games are presented. We now have hip music to pump up the crowds, we have Dance Cam, Chuck-A-Puck, Shoot-At -The Open-Net, Text-In Your Seat &Win a Prize, and that very cool video presentation of Harvard hockey through the years. That's innovation! That's what I want. I don't want some staid college band, and a bunch of undergrads taking up space in there just because it's "traditional " or "creates a fun environment." I'm tired of the old thinking, and glad that, now, were embracing the new -- others probably are, too. I don't go to road games but do you think Keith Allain or crumpy Mike Schafer would be on board with this stuff?!? Mark Mazz?!? Highly unlikely. I have a feeling that winning games is pretty much all they're about. For the record, I doubt any of those guys are as nice as Ted is. Allain is constantly scowling, as is Schafer. Btw, congrats to Allian, and good on Yale, but I don't think we ever needed his mirthless visage behind our bench.

Re: # 5) Speaking as a fan, I really only care about the regular season anyway. Some say it speaks well of a coach if he can get his team improving as the season progresses and "do well when it really counts." And I've heard Parker and York talk about "it's not how you play in Dec, it's how you play at the end of the season" but that never made any sense to me. I'd rather see my team peak in Dec or Jan when I'm actually watching games! And last I looked, 2 pts counts as much in Dec as it does in Feb. As for playoffs, well, what are we going to do? Paint our faces and head off for Albany and Pittsburgh to cheer on the boys? No thanks.

I think this is what The Onion's guide to being a good fan would sound like.

[bothman]

Believe it or not BC is the youngest team in D-1 at 20.6. Most of the schools you quote average 21.5 to 21.9 year old for an average, Harvard is 21.1 on average.

You can win at that age because of the quality of recruits. That is my point about BC getting the best players. Those guys don't have to spend 3yrs in junior to be relevant.

Harvard may have to employ a different strategy to compete as times have changed.

[FiveHole12]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Looking at the upcoming weekend's schedule as shown on the USCHO website, it indicates that both the Harvard @ Cornell and Harvard @ Colgate games will be played at Bright Hockey Center.

I assume this is a mistake, but if it's accurate, can anybody tell me why Cornell and Colgate agreed to play their home games at Harvard's rink?

It's because Ted Donato is a very nice guy and they want to do something nice for him in return.
Pay attention please.

[Hokydad]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

problem is simple. to many players picked based off of rep vs upside, projecting out. to many natl dev players because they played there. colin moore, rempel types

them and many others will not win the ECAC.

Yale gets Miller types, USHL players of the year.

[bothman]

problem is simple. to many players picked based off of rep vs upside, projecting out. to many natl dev players because they played there. colin moore, rempel types

them and many others will not win the ECAC.

Yale gets Miller types, USHL players of the year.

So do you think bracco and fortunato like Moore and rempel or will they be the beginning of a brighter wave of talent to come thru Cambridge?